SGOTM 16 - Plastic Ducks

shakabrade

Praise Vivec!
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May 23, 2011
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Croatia
You can't actually download them at this point (at least, I couldn't).

It's down to IP addresses. See the discussion on final few pages of our pages. They basically block your main IP address. If you have a dynamic IP address it may work. Otherwise visit your parents/friends and download there. Or log in through a second ISP. Or wait till end of game.

I had no problems downloading it. Probably because I am constantly logged on on both my PC and smartphone. Also, 2 weeks in hometown helped to cover the track too.

Ok, if I could wait for 4 months, I can be patient 17-18 more days. But if we voted now, I'd be strongly against an extension.:D
 

shakabrade

Praise Vivec!
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May 23, 2011
Messages
2,103
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Croatia
The 1st thing I did is trying to download the saves and was not allowed.;) The I saw in US thread that AlanH will only open the barrier after all teams finish.

I think barrier existed so no one accidentally opens other team's thread and becomes disqualified. List of saves is densely populated and mistakes can happen.
 

kossin

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Dec 4, 2008
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Canada
I think barrier existed so no one accidentally opens other team's thread and becomes disqualified. List of saves is densely populated and mistakes can happen.

Yes, it saved me a scare once a week ago :lol:

As I predicted, it seems no one thought of using spies for culture. Even though it only shaved 3~10 turns, with better planning circa turn 180 it might have saved us more turns because we wouldn't be so focused on culture and could finish techs pre-1600AD.
1t earlier is 100% certain, with a few other key techs 1t earlier, we keep gaining late-game turns...
 

SteelHorse

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New Jersey, USA
Congrats - very nicely done. Clever move with the spies, more efficient than the great artist culture bombs. And as always very thorough analysis.
 

Duckweed

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Feb 3, 2009
Messages
4,674
Kaku will likely finish ~T245 if they realize that they could go for UN instead of AP, their techs rate and tech pace are quite behind us. I only saw their 1450AD screenshots, where they were researching SP with ~1900 bpt with 100% slider in golden age, while our team were able to pump over 2000 bpt when pushing to Medicine.
 

kcd_swede

Jag är Viking!½
GOTM Staff
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Jun 21, 2007
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Stockholm's B.F.C.
Your save checks out with the following results:

10 objectives acheived
t235 / 1625AD UN Diplomatic and Domination victories
score 224181

Fantastic game, folks! Presently on top of the podium, awaiting the rest of the finishers... but looks like this one might stand.:king::goodjob:
 

kossin

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Kaku will likely finish ~T245 if they realize that they could go for UN instead of AP, their techs rate and tech pace are quite behind us. I only saw their 1450AD screenshots, where they were researching SP with ~1900 bpt with 100% slider in golden age, while our team were able to pump over 2000 bpt when pushing to Medicine.

I went ahead and grabbed some Kaku saves while I was away from home. It's a bit hard to follow threads without screenshots if the saves aren't available :( (not that I'm complaining, I do 100% support the system)

Kaku T214
Spoiler :
Just finished AL, Combustion is queued up.
Techs left: Rifling, Electricity, Radio, Combustion, Refrigeration, Superconductors, Genetics, Flight, Rocketry, Industrialism, Plastics, Composites, Satellites, Advanced Flight, Stealth, Future Tech (16 techs)
bpt: 2,538 + GE+GP+GS, GE for Creative Constructions and other 2 for 2&3 GP Golden Ages -- 1,800 stable
gold: 2,217
gpt: -407 (40% of their cities producing wealth, -647 otherwise)
342 total population
GPs: they're starting work on the 1,000 :gp: guy with a sweet National Park+NE city. (12 free specialists + salon)
Sid's Sushi founded in 1390AD = T199 (15 spreads; 17 resources)
Mining Inc founded in 1500AD = T210 (3 spreads; 15 resources)
Wall Street in 1430AD = T203
Ironworks due in 2t, 1530AD = T216
Markets built: 2 (this is starting to bite due to unhapiness - very little room to grow although most of it is due to warring)
25 workers
Paris culture: 10,097 +514.5
Orleans culture: 12,870 +632

Improvements
Spoiler :
50 mines
48 workshops
46 farms
27 villages
...
17 towns
...
8 windmills


Military
Spoiler :

6 maces
14 musketeers
2 Knights
2 catas
2 Trebs
7 cannons
4 Airships
13 galleons for troops movement



PD T214
Spoiler :
Just finished AL, Physics is queued up.
Techs left: Rifling, Physics, Electricity, Radio, Combustion, Refrigeration, Superconductors, Mass Media, Genetics, Flight, Rocketry, Industrialism, Plastics, Composites, Satellites, Advanced Flight, Stealth, Future Tech (18 techs - but we have Communism which they don't, not sure if it's in their plans)
bpt: 4,256 (for comparison, we get 3,038 at -687 gpt) + 3 sitting GS for bulbs -- 2100 stable
gold: 45
gpt: -1696
546 total population
GPs: working on 1,200 :gp:
Sid's Sushi founded in 1380AD = T198 (31 spreads; 32 resources)
Mining Inc founded in 1460AD = T206 (16 spreads; 21 resources)
Wall Street in 1500AD = T210
Ironworks 1370AD = T197
Markets built: 18 (lots of room to grow)
38 workers
Paris culture: 8,746.5 +367.5
Orleans culture: 12,442 +855

Improvements
Spoiler :
46 mines
68 workshops
100 farms
17 villages
...
35 towns
...
34 windmills


Military
Spoiler :

10 maces
12 musketeers
0 Knights
5 catas
2 Trebs
9 cannons
0 Airships
23 galleons for troops movement



The big difference in our games is the focus on research vs food~hammers. This is mainly reflected in city infrastructure (and population, we have 200 more pop - all those extra farms at Biology were the right call to quickly grow before Sushi came online; well maybe not all 100 of them but you get my drift) but also in warring. Ram is still alive and Hammy is still resisting them. We had 13 more cities contributing at the same date (53 vs 41, but 1 vs 2 in Anarchy).

It's too tedious to compute all the hammers generated, I'll only do it for early dates.
 

kossin

Deity
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
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Canada
Congratulations :clap:

I followed your thread closely.

A true dedicated lurker for a few games :)

Your save checks out with the following results:

10 objectives acheived
t235 / 1625AD UN Diplomatic and Domination victories
score 224181

Fantastic game, folks! Presently on top of the podium, awaiting the rest of the finishers... but looks like this one might stand.:king::goodjob:

Thanks!

~~~

Here's the bunch of saves I made in between T214-end + auto-save of victory turn.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6t752g85lnnhytk/T214-end.zip
 

kossin

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Canada
T69 comparison
Kaku vs PD
beakers: 2896 vs 1803 (including trades & Oracle) +1093
hammers: 545 vs 645 (free hammers excluded) -100
100% bpt: 37 vs 29
pop: 9 vs 10

T88 comparison
Kaku vs PD
beakers: 3868 vs 2228 (including trades & Oracle) +1640
hammers: 1145 vs 1370 (free hammers excluded) -225
100% bpt: 70 vs 58
pop: 10 vs 16

The next same-turn submission goes all the way to T143... too many numbers to crunch up for me but these 2 comparisons already show what happens.
 

sossos

King
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Jul 7, 2011
Messages
940
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Toronto
200 pop= 2100 beakers, so they need at least another 7~8 turns to catch up the gap of 64,100 beakers accumulated from T214 to T235, assuming the return rate is 3%.
 

sossos

King
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Jul 7, 2011
Messages
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Toronto
T69 comparison
Kaku vs PD
beakers: 2896 vs 1803 (including trades & Oracle) +1093
hammers: 545 vs 645 (free hammers excluded) -100
100% bpt: 37 vs 29
pop: 9 vs 10

T88 comparison
Kaku vs PD
beakers: 3868 vs 2228 (including trades & Oracle) +1640
hammers: 1145 vs 1370 (free hammers excluded) -225
100% bpt: 70 vs 58
pop: 10 vs 16

The next same-turn submission goes all the way to T143... too many numbers to crunch up for me but these 2 comparisons already show what happens.

Wow, have you used any tool to get that number quickly?

They invested so many on Techs? 1640 beakers= 4 Techs!!
6 pop = 180 hammers, but I still cannot understand how comes the trade-off between 405 hammers and 1640 beakers. If the data is true, we are behind in terms of the overall yield.

Where's the missing/hidden asset?
 

Duckweed

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Feb 3, 2009
Messages
4,674
Their capital site is the best choice as I mentioned long time ago, which gave the faster opening and stronger capital. Not a fault of us, that's just the willingness to take the risk.

Looks like the tile 1W and 1NW of the riverside PH are 2FPs, plus the PH city center, which could offer a faster opening. However, the available forests are way less than SIP, I guess SIP is my choice.

The hidden wheat makes the PH site gamble being successful.
 

sossos

King
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Toronto
Their early tech path is:
Pottery>Writing>Alphabet (trade for a lot of techs)

Ah, got it. Then their real beaker investment should be much less.

The problem of tech trade is that the return is dependant on the tech paths of AIs which are not cotrolled by us.

I think this comes from the high stake gambit of HOF players.
 

sossos

King
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Jul 7, 2011
Messages
940
Location
Toronto
Their capital site is the best choice as I mentioned long time ago, which gave the faster opening and stronger capital. Not a fault of us, that's just the willingness to take the risk.



The hidden wheat makes the PH site gamble being successful.

Yup, another proof of gambling habit of HOF players
 

kossin

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Canada
Ah, got it. Then their real beaker investment should be much less.

The problem of tech trade is that the return is dependant on the tech paths of AIs which are not cotrolled by us.

I think this comes from the high stake gambit of HOF players.

For T69, trades include: (might have missed some)
AH, Myst, Hunting, Mining (2040BC)
Archery, BW (1960BC)
---
654 beakers

EDIT: also, CoL from Oracle is more expensive than Monarchy.
 

Gumbolt

Phoenix Rising
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
23,733
Location
UK
Okay PR stats for T214
Spoiler :

2 turns off Railroad.
Techs needed.Electricity, Radio, Railroad, Combustion, Refrigeration, Superconductors, Mass Media, Genetics, Flight, Rocketry, Industrialism, Plastics, Composites, Satellites, Advanced Flight, Stealth, Future Tech (17 techs)

287 pop at T214.
Founded Sushi 1400ad. 27 Sushi resources. To date 11 sushi spreads.
Mining inc. 2 turns off RR and we had a GE ready. None to date.
Started working on the 1400 GP (Ahead on something. :D )
Wall Street 1510ad
IW still in production :eek:
Science 2109 at 100% -589gpt

Orlean 7735 +420
Paris 5906 +226
17 workers
3 markets


We got lib in 1310 ad and took med.

Our first war with Hammy may have slowed us down.

Spoiler :

100 farms
41 mines
9 windmills
4 workshops
4 watermills



19 towns
Spoiler :

6 mace
16 muskets
10 cannons
1 pult
1 treb
12 galleons


We had mainly lost 14 mace, 13 trebs, 4LB and 2 cannons by this stage. 5-6 other random units.


Overall we were over 260ish pop off PD by this stage. 60 or so off Kauk.

Looks like we were slow spreading sushi. Also slow on city builds too I guess.
 
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