SGOTM 16 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
1st PD
t235 / 1625AD UN Diplomatic and Domination victories
score 224181
2nd Kauk Diplomatic & Domination t244/1670AD
Score: 179841
3rd PR t258 / 1740AD Domination and UN Diplomatic victories
score 187541
4th US t260 /1750AD Domination and Religious victories
score 138811
5th FE Diplomatic & Domination t265/1775AD
Score: 191476
6th SSR T274 score of 141,630 points Domination/UN.
7th MS t279 / 1818AD Cultural and Domination victories
score 160045
8th X team T282? All 10 objectives?
9th MGN are all done. Diplomatic & Culture t396/1872AD
Score: 95378
So far it looks like MGN have the wooden spoon with lowest score. See what score X team get.
To date all teams have acheived all 10 objectives.
t235 / 1625AD UN Diplomatic and Domination victories
score 224181
2nd Kauk Diplomatic & Domination t244/1670AD
Score: 179841
3rd PR t258 / 1740AD Domination and UN Diplomatic victories
score 187541
4th US t260 /1750AD Domination and Religious victories
score 138811
5th FE Diplomatic & Domination t265/1775AD
Score: 191476
6th SSR T274 score of 141,630 points Domination/UN.
7th MS t279 / 1818AD Cultural and Domination victories
score 160045
8th X team T282? All 10 objectives?
9th MGN are all done. Diplomatic & Culture t396/1872AD
Score: 95378
So far it looks like MGN have the wooden spoon with lowest score. See what score X team get.
To date all teams have acheived all 10 objectives.
@Gumbolt
for comparison
Our Sushi spread was hastened with forest chops, whips and Ironworks in the Corp HQ. Several cities were already large so with 1 whip they were able to 1-turn Execs for a while.
We were firmly in caste at that point as we were running a specialist economy. We switched to mainly mining execs once that was in. A lot of our island cities needed no execs.
T238 for Kaku isn't going to happen due to culture. (possibly/probably research too)
Their predictions would require 9 GArtists on T238.
EDIT: 3 GPs for Golden Ages would mean 11~12 more GP to get, that's all the way to 3000+
Their predictions would require 9 GArtists on T238.
EDIT: 3 GPs for Golden Ages would mean 11~12 more GP to get, that's all the way to 3000+
T238 for Kaku isn't going to happen due to culture. (possibly/probably research too)
Their predictions would require 9 GArtists on T238.
EDIT: 3 GPs for Golden Ages would mean 11~12 more GP to get, that's all the way to 3000+
Yep that seems unlikely but these guys do pull off the impossible at times.
That makes our possible 3rd look a lot sweeter. Perhaps they sacrificed growth for too many wonders? Moving their capital helped? If you could replay where would you settle now if you knew the map?
Our number of workers compared to you lot was crazy low. You had 21 more workers than us on T214. I assume you captured most of these?? I think we only built about 8 or so. Maybe less. Mylene pushed her deity use of workers. Only working tiles that needed improvements. Using specialists if tiles not worked.
Okay PR stats for T214
Spoiler :
Overall we were over 260ish pop off PD by this stage. 60 or so off Kauk.
Looks like we were slow spreading sushi. Also slow on city builds too I guess.
)
I noticed a big drop of power around T180 for PR's curve. What happened?
Edit: It's really interesting to read the threads of PR and KaKu for the whole night.
The Waterloo combat of PR around T180 is in the war vs Hammy. The troops at Babyloon was ambushed due to lack of EP.
PR did pretty well even without TGL. They conquered Brennus evern earlier than us, but they settled the islands too late.
I think most workers are captured. The curve of PD takes off from the first war, though the invisible infra advantage may be even earlier.
I'll grab a few more of Kaku's saves tomorrow. From what I saw of the early 2 saves, we went granary first for whipping while they produced the 3rd settler. Too many wonders will slow down REX, that's for sure. Pyramids is debatable against or for, but HG was probably too much.
The PH+wheat site gives the fastest start, no doubt. Long term is better by corn but only after Sushi... the benefit of speeding up everything by a few turns (2 turns on worker, a few turns on warriors etc.) is better than long term potential.
T214 Paris
Kaku vs PD
Size: 18 vs 20
base hammers: 55 vs 57 (not counting Mining or AP)
commerce: 123 vs 128
Quite negligible long-term potential as you can see. The higher size is mainly due to less health issues, as I think they got Sushi spread earlier in Paris. Besides, fp's would allow the capital to grow much larger than the corn site... we were size 11 in Paris until Sushi ~1400AD.
EDIT: 27/38 workers were captured.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
That's outrageous. Wow.
Bebekija
King
Congratulations everyone you did a terrific job!!!
I really hate that I wasn't able to participate more in this one, if only because, given the outstanding performance that you pulled, I would have learned A LOT !!
Well, RL comes first I guess.
I actually wish that SGOTM 17 will not start too soon so that I can actively participate this time. It would give some time for my daughter to resolve her existential crisis that's ruining my nights, for my son to learn to sleep more than 5h in a row, and for my boss to stop putting every incoming project on my shoulders...
Anyways, thanks again guys, and keep the analysis/comparisons coming, I love those !!
I really hate that I wasn't able to participate more in this one, if only because, given the outstanding performance that you pulled, I would have learned A LOT !!
Well, RL comes first I guess.
I actually wish that SGOTM 17 will not start too soon so that I can actively participate this time. It would give some time for my daughter to resolve her existential crisis that's ruining my nights, for my son to learn to sleep more than 5h in a row, and for my boss to stop putting every incoming project on my shoulders...
Anyways, thanks again guys, and keep the analysis/comparisons coming, I love those !!
UnforcedError
Settler
Thanks for the analysis so far, Kossin
Congratulations everyone you did a terrific job!!!
I really hate that I wasn't able to participate more in this one, if only because, given the outstanding performance that you pulled, I would have learned A LOT !!
Well, RL comes first I guess.
I actually wish that SGOTM 17 will not start too soon so that I can actively participate this time. It would give some time for my daughter to resolve her existential crisis that's ruining my nights, for my son to learn to sleep more than 5h in a row, and for my boss to stop putting every incoming project on my shoulders...
Anyways, thanks again guys, and keep the analysis/comparisons coming, I love those !!
I think you've contributed a lot in the first 100 turns. If my memory is correct, you are the only one playing two test files for 30 more turns to check the differences.
I still think our game can be improved by:
1. pushing out chariots and buiding C3 earlier as is done by Kaku.
2. going MC first as is done by PR and build the colossus. This wonder is understated and proved to be lasting over 50 turns and benefiting more than 20 water tiles.
3. plan for the EP culture earlier. We had not been confident enough before Kossin showed testing results.
4. all small errors here and there.
The perfect end may be around T230.
I still need to dig out more about why Kaku is not developing well after T100 with the wonderful start. Too many investments on wonder may be one of the reasons, but there might be other factors. I don't understand why both PR and Kaku love Mids so much, which is the most expensive wonder at the ancient time with functions against REX IMO. Let me read more about their reasoning.
Slow REX: too many wonders not enough settlers.
Oracle (1480BC)
GLH (950BC)
Pyramids (475BC)
Apolistic Palace (100BC)
Hanging Gardens (175AD)
Colossus (400AD)
Getting city #3 earlier would slow down all subsequent cities IMO, we invested into granaries instead which meant more whip. Of course, Monarchy allowed for more whips than Representation but we still had to spend hammers into warriors.
City # settle date
Kaku vs PD
1: 3920BC vs 3960BC
2: 2360BC vs 2400BC
3: 1200BC vs 1040BC
4: 575BC vs 800BC
5: 275BC vs 800BC
6: 50BC vs 600BC
7: 25AD vs 550BC
8: 175AD vs 325BC
9: 175AD vs 225BC
10: 325AD vs 175BC
By 325AD, we had 14 cities and (I'm assuming) more infrastructure/closer to war.
~~~
BTW, learned a cool trick from US to see who spammed the thread most:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=475486
It's amusing to see some players addicted to mids and are proud of their choice. I posted many times that mids is mediocre wonder even with stone, apparently those players don't buy it.
@sossos
IIRC I posted somewhere for the analysis of TC, which is a quite weak wonder in this game.
@sossos
IIRC I posted somewhere for the analysis of TC, which is a quite weak wonder in this game.
Thank you Kossin for the data. I can only read the posts now as my IP is fixed.
We surpassed Kaku from C4 because we had invested more on granaries and settlers instead of techs and Mids. This has nothing to do with a later C3. Earlier C3 can get us better as long as it's whipped 6->3.
Without stone, I do think Mids/HG is a poor investment. The only bait to me is the high probability of GE for mine inc, but it's not lucrative enough.
AP may be attributed to our good luck or strategy. We helped Rammy a lot in the first 150 turns, so he can beat Hammy/Saladin on AP dash. I'm surprised that HOFmen didn't gamble this time.
Colossus will be good if it's built around T100. The date of Kaku is too late to make good use of it. PR has the chance, but apprently they have no interest to settle on those islands. It's also a bit weird to me.
Edit: Heraditary allows us to pay 15h as asset and 1C/turn as expense(0 expense if it's supported free) for the C/H conversion or small hammer gain from small cities and unimproved tiles. It's definitely a better civ during expansion.
Same, I went somewhere else to download a few of their saves. I'll try getting the rest today.
It's amusing to see some players addicted to mids and are proud of their choice. I posted many times that mids is mediocre wonder even with stone, apparently those players don't buy it.
@sossos
IIRC I posted somewhere for the analysis of TC, which is a quite weak wonder in this game.
The one voting for Mids may argue that this is a trade-off between 300 hammers and 360 beakers(monachy) in the short term. However, the return rate of Classical Techs on average is much lower than granaries and settlers, expecially after TGL is on hand.
[Edit: If with stone, the deal is changed to 180 hammers for monachy. It's close to the effect of oracle, so why not?]
The Colossus does not fit to our style very well as we whipped a lot, but this is not enough to convince me. We have many water tiles and a long period between MC and Astronomy to have it work. What else is against this cheap wonder with only 160 normalized hammers?
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
We had 4 cities when PD had 2 and Kauk had 3.
Looks like Kaku will have troubles getting anything earlier than turn ~245
So we will only be clearly behind of you guys and stayed competitive with all others, that's nice..after all i learned most in Civ4 from Kossin (at least how Deity works)
I partly agree on your view of Pyramids, Duckweed.
They been mediocre in this game like all sgotms cos GLH exists. Otherwise they have been what kept us in this race beakers wise. So you are right, we focused too much on them and forgot about GLH.
Peoples arguing it's been okay building them..we do that cos we still liked how we played overall, place 3 would be goody for us. So you should not call that amusing, not everybody can be the top team
So we will only be clearly behind of you guys and stayed competitive with all others, that's nice..after all i learned most in Civ4 from Kossin (at least how Deity works)
I partly agree on your view of Pyramids, Duckweed.
They been mediocre in this game like all sgotms cos GLH exists. Otherwise they have been what kept us in this race beakers wise. So you are right, we focused too much on them and forgot about GLH.
Peoples arguing it's been okay building them..we do that cos we still liked how we played overall, place 3 would be goody for us. So you should not call that amusing, not everybody can be the top team
