SGOTM 17 - Kakumeika

Qin seems to be down to 6 units, and two of them are escorting a settler. So we can
certainly take Nanjing in 2 turns, or fewer if we'd rather accept some knight losses. I don't see value in rushing, since most of the stack will take time to catch up for the teleport. But it is probalby time to count tiles and see what will make it where and when.

Good night!
 
Wow! Nice work!!! T154 one city Qin :D

Where'd you find a hero knight? We needed that.


We've got so much gold we might even be able to use the espionage slider near the end. Stupid spies are so slow though, and they teleport back across the map =/

Maybe get civil service and start upgrading units. City raider III swords to macemen. That horseman to a knight. $_$ (I can't recall seeing so much gold in a conquest game, what's the rushbuy civic? lol)

Maybe start whipping military in every city but Timbuktu and Marble Pigs and our capital until trade mission? No more Courthouses? Guess we'll see what the deficit is after the golden age wears off.


I'm kinda gobsmacked that Churchill is surrounded by ice. Looks like a one shot chance teleport or paratroopers. >_>
 
Maybe build culture for 2 turns in Nagara. We could sure use the +1 :) from Incense right now.

We'll get Sugar when Shanghai comes out of revolt.

We'll get Spices when Beijing comes out of revolt.
 
great job with Qin, I really thought he was going to be much harder to kill, but with the caste system switch and the infiltration mission it seems he fell very quickly. I suspect Churchill will be significantly more difficult (no spies can teleport over)



looks like Peter's iron would be pretty easy to destroy. It would be nice not to have to worry about pikemen. Perhaps the axe and UU can wander over to the iron and perhaps with a knight destroy his iron on the 2nd turn of the DoW

Re: building culture
Don't forget that if you have a build in the queue after the culture build on the turn the borders pop you get the hammers put onto the build after the culture. (assuming you will build culture to the get the incense as Kaitzilla suggests)

Looks like Peter has 5 gold for trade, might as well get a few gold from him by trading him Marble (maybe he will start some wonders instead of units... not sure what wonders are left though) These trades will not create a peace treaty.

Probably can capture about 8 workers from Qin this turn! I've never quite seen a stack with so many!

Obviously be careful with the great merchant until Qin is truly dead.

We are going to lose quite a bit of gold production with the end of the Golden Age, but I agree we have spare gold. Very nice! Upgrades might make sense for highly promoted units. espionage slider against Peter perhaps, but not Churchill as we will never get spies through to him.

Once we get city visibility on Churchill I would switch espionage back to Toku as you planned
I suppose we could keep a city we capture from Churchill to whip spies but it seems unlikely we will be able to use espionage against him usefully.
Unless we give him a city and flip him to caste or something but that seems unlikely.

Might need some farms for the capital to grow to pop 11 faster.

You can grow some cities into unhappiness like Timbuktu if we are getting several happiness resources soon.

Qin lost his iron so Nanjing won't get that knight built :)

so a 2nd city near the dye, bordering the lake on the NE corner of Peter's lands wouldn't be able to build a galley would it? Would have been nice to get the dye and a 2nd galley city for Peter at the same time.

A 2nd galley city for Peter isn't a crazy idea either. Although it looks like the forests are few and far between.

Perhaps a dye city is in order (we have plenty of gold to support another city and the +1 happiness is going to be nice/needed for the whipping frenzy to come)

An unforturnate place for the GG to be born. if we can get him to the stack of Treb we have in Qin's lands we could have use him to get at least 10 trebs up to level 3 in the field plus have a 2 movement accuracy treb for him to lead! Plus that would give many of those Trebs a chance to heal with their promo before they teleport over.

I think KS wants to build another galley not a spy. I don't want the galleys to be the choke point for our force being sent to Peter.

I think we want almost exclusively knights as units now. Their 2 movement and our excess units means their speed is the critical factor now.

Perhaps build a settler just to get spices faster might make sense (9 turns is a long time to wait).
 
:eek:

Bcool makes a lots of good points. A dye city makes sense if we are running into happy problems.
Not sure we need another city to get sugar or spices now. Maybe if it can get to size 2 and we can give it to Mansa for Toku bait.
Getting 10 trebs up to 3 promos right now would be great. A shame the GG was born in Hade's Hammar. :sad: Not sure if it can make it south to catch up with our mega stack in time.
I completely forgot that spies can't teleport.


I've been testing to dot some I's and cross some T's.

Aachen at 10 pop does give us 900:gold: from a trade mission.
Aachen at 11 pop does give us 1100:gold: from a trade mission.

Not any distance bonus that I can really see. Maybe flat map is causing it :sad:


Teleporting into Churchill after DoWing didn't work in testing! :cry:

Fire up Sun Tzu Wu's very accurate test game and you will see. (I used the one with a settler named Agent Smith on every Toku tile :love:)
Have to add the Peter Bridge city to make it more accurate.

I think we'll have to keep open borders with Churchill and teleport the stack in and march north towards a neutral tile before we can DoW him.

We might want to send a settler and a few workers with our Churchill stack just in case those 2 neutral tiles in Churchill's lands are gone when we get there.
We could still close borders with Churchill and teleport north into the wilderness to build a galley city.
A 2nd golden age would allow us to rushbuy galleys too. Maybe we shouldn't throw our gold around recklessly right now if we are gonna rushbuy later :hmm:


Let's see, counting tiles which AI will be the slowest conquest? Hmmm
 
If the teleport doesn't work, we want a settler to teleport over asap (highest priority!) Teleport the settler over separately.

If we can settle a city earlier then there is more chance we will still have the neutral tiles.

If we can avoid settling a galley city to get units to churchill that is the critical choke point.

We can do 2 teleports as long as we share a war with Toku. What is the fastest way to get a settler to settle a city in one of the neutral tiles?
(as a bonus this city could buy spies for us if we switch to US)

Looks like Rajavihara could whip a settler next turn and be ready to teleport over to Churchill T160-1 (however if we close borders to teleport the settler over it will kick the other units out of Toku's lands, forcing them to start the hike back the the western edge again...

I suppose where they go will depend on how far they get but Toku's lands are maze like...
 
That's right, same problem as the Tokus SGOTM. Can't teleport to a different land mass. No, it is the same land mass. But is it the same land mass in the test game? Edit: Yes, it is. I removed the ice and replaced the water with land and I still could not use a teleport from Toku to enter Churchill culture while we were at war with Churchill. At peace with Churchill and with open borders I could teleport to Churchill's land.

So we need a plan B, along the lines bcool and Kaitzilla suggested:

Plan B1: settler ASAP. Even then, we have to do a teleport from 2S of Kagoshima to use PeterBridgeCIty as the anchor point, *and* avoid Toku's neutral tile, in order to teleport to the north side of Churchill's channel. And then wait to build a galley.

Plan B2: close borders with Toku while a stack is far enough south that it will teleport into Churchill lands, rather than Toku's neutral tile. Move the stack north far enough that when we DOW it will move to a neutral tile in Churchill's land. Canterbury and Warwick do not look like they have any culture buildings at all, so we should be reasonably safe from a border pop in either of them. If we ensure we teleport enough to take Warwick, then we will have the option of a further teleport from Toku to Warwick when we actually DOW Toku.

I like B2 much much more, but we should get out a settler and pair it with the last remaining missionary and some workers, to prepare for a B1-style mission as a fallback.
 
:eek:

Bcool makes a lots of good points. A dye city makes sense if we are running into happy problems.
Not sure we need another city to get sugar or spices now. Maybe if it can get to size 2 and we can give it to Mansa for Toku bait.
Getting 10 trebs up to 3 promos right now would be great. A shame the GG was born in Hade's Hammar. :sad: Not sure if it can make it south to catch up with our mega stack in time.
I completely forgot that spies can't teleport.


I've been testing to dot some I's and cross some T's.

Aachen at 10 pop does give us 900:gold: from a trade mission.
Aachen at 11 pop does give us 1100:gold: from a trade mission.

Not any distance bonus that I can really see. Maybe flat map is causing it :sad:

There is no distance bonus. See link from http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12494249&postcount=1823.

The base rate depends on the minimum of a factor that depends on distance and a factor that depends on the size of your capital. Either of those can be the limiting thing. Here, Aachen's pop is limiting once you get far enough away.
 
great job with Qin, I really thought he was going to be much harder to kill, but with the caste system switch and the infiltration mission it seems he fell very quickly. I suspect Churchill will be significantly more difficult (no spies can teleport over)



looks like Peter's iron would be pretty easy to destroy. It would be nice not to have to worry about pikemen. Perhaps the axe and UU can wander over to the iron and perhaps with a knight destroy his iron on the 2nd turn of the DoW

Re: building culture
Don't forget that if you have a build in the queue after the culture build on the turn the borders pop you get the hammers put onto the build after the culture. (assuming you will build culture to the get the incense as Kaitzilla suggests)

Looks like Peter has 5 gold for trade, might as well get a few gold from him by trading him Marble (maybe he will start some wonders instead of units... not sure what wonders are left though) These trades will not create a peace treaty.

Probably can capture about 8 workers from Qin this turn! I've never quite seen a stack with so many!

Obviously be careful with the great merchant until Qin is truly dead.

We are going to lose quite a bit of gold production with the end of the Golden Age, but I agree we have spare gold. Very nice! Upgrades might make sense for highly promoted units. espionage slider against Peter perhaps, but not Churchill as we will never get spies through to him.

Once we get city visibility on Churchill I would switch espionage back to Toku as you planned
I suppose we could keep a city we capture from Churchill to whip spies but it seems unlikely we will be able to use espionage against him usefully.
Unless we give him a city and flip him to caste or something but that seems unlikely.

Might need some farms for the capital to grow to pop 11 faster.

You can grow some cities into unhappiness like Timbuktu if we are getting several happiness resources soon.

Qin lost his iron so Nanjing won't get that knight built :)

so a 2nd city near the dye, bordering the lake on the NE corner of Peter's lands wouldn't be able to build a galley would it? Would have been nice to get the dye and a 2nd galley city for Peter at the same time.

A 2nd galley city for Peter isn't a crazy idea either. Although it looks like the forests are few and far between.

Perhaps a dye city is in order (we have plenty of gold to support another city and the +1 happiness is going to be nice/needed for the whipping frenzy to come)

An unforturnate place for the GG to be born. if we can get him to the stack of Treb we have in Qin's lands we could have use him to get at least 10 trebs up to level 3 in the field plus have a 2 movement accuracy treb for him to lead! Plus that would give many of those Trebs a chance to heal with their promo before they teleport over.

I think KS wants to build another galley not a spy. I don't want the galleys to be the choke point for our force being sent to Peter.

I think we want almost exclusively knights as units now. Their 2 movement and our excess units means their speed is the critical factor now.

Perhaps build a settler just to get spices faster might make sense (9 turns is a long time to wait).

A settler whipped from Nagara would still only get spices 3 turns faster by the time it spends 2 turns on the queue and 3 turns walking, so I don't think that is good. But a dye city to open a NE bridge to Peter makes good sense. It will take a while for it to get about two galleys out, but the second wave for Peter can go that way.

While we can really use more Hades galleys right now, if you look further back in the empire, there is very little following on. That should increase as we start whipping more knights. We need 5 galleys to sustain 2 units/turn Hades throughput. But I am skeptical about adding more.
 
But a dye city to open a NE bridge to Peter makes good sense. It will take a while for it to get about two galleys out, but the second wave for Peter can go that way.

Just to be clear a city placed on the lake in the NE corner of Peter's area near the dye will not be able to build a galley. You need to be adjacent to an ocean to build a galley.

So the dye city will have to be separate from the 2nd galley city to Peter.
 
A settler whipped from Nagara would still only get spices 3 turns faster by the time it spends 2 turns on the queue and 3 turns walking, so I don't think that is good. But a dye city to open a NE bridge to Peter makes good sense. It will take a while for it to get about two galleys out, but the second wave for Peter can go that way.

While we can really use more Hades galleys right now, if you look further back in the empire, there is very little following on. That should increase as we start whipping more knights. We need 5 galleys to sustain 2 units/turn Hades throughput. But I am skeptical about adding more.

4 galleys should be able to do 4 units/turn in Hades throughput.
2 at the very north dropping troops 2N1E of Hade's forge, and 2 galleys taking units from Hades Forge and putting them into Hade's Hammar.
 
That's right, same problem as the Tokus SGOTM. Can't teleport to a different land mass. No, it is the same land mass. But is it the same land mass in the test game? Edit: Yes, it is. I removed the ice and replaced the water with land and I still could not use a teleport from Toku to enter Churchill culture while we were at war with Churchill. At peace with Churchill and with open borders I could teleport to Churchill's land.

So we need a plan B, along the lines bcool and Kaitzilla suggested:

Plan B1: settler ASAP. Even then, we have to do a teleport from 2S of Kagoshima to use PeterBridgeCIty as the anchor point, *and* avoid Toku's neutral tile, in order to teleport to the north side of Churchill's channel. And then wait to build a galley.

Plan B2: close borders with Toku while a stack is far enough south that it will teleport into Churchill lands, rather than Toku's neutral tile. Move the stack north far enough that when we DOW it will move to a neutral tile in Churchill's land. Canterbury and Warwick do not look like they have any culture buildings at all, so we should be reasonably safe from a border pop in either of them. If we ensure we teleport enough to take Warwick, then we will have the option of a further teleport from Toku to Warwick when we actually DOW Toku.

I like B2 much much more, but we should get out a settler and pair it with the last remaining missionary and some workers, to prepare for a B1-style mission as a fallback.

Yes, I like B2 also. :)

Just need to have scouting on the relevant neutral tiles to ensure they are still there when we start teleporting. If a neutral tile disappears, you won't know unless you have eyes on the tile.
 
Sorry I didn't realize we couldn't settle a city in Churchill's neutral tiles, clearly B2 is better, but there is some urgency to get over to Churchill before those neutral tiles force us to use a galley city.
 
Yes, I like B2 also. :)

Just need to have scouting on the relevant neutral tiles to ensure they are still there when we start teleporting. If a neutral tile disappears, you won't know unless you have eyes on the tile.

Yes, Cash Cow will need to keep his eyes on them at all times.

We should do a Churchill DoW teleport test to be sure our stack teleports to one of the two neutral.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Yes, I like B2 also. :)

Just need to have scouting on the relevant neutral tiles to ensure they are still there when we start teleporting. If a neutral tile disappears, you won't know unless you have eyes on the tile.

Can we turn the EP slider to see the culture of the two cities? Maybe we can still teleport some knights in 3~4 turns to conquer a city.
How long will it take Toku to open border again then?
 
Can we turn the EP slider to see the culture of the two cities? Maybe we can still teleport some knights in 3~4 turns to conquer a city.
How long will it take Toku to open border again then?

I don't think we have any way of seeing what culture a Churchill city has.

Sure, we could send the knights on ahead and start the war early, but if they aren't able to capture a rightside city like Warwick, we won't be able to teleport more units over later.
Plus like Mabraham said, our slow units going through Toku's land would get teleported backwards.

We can reopen borders with Toku whenever we DoW Mansa and share a war with Toku.


If we raze a few Churchill cities, we can plant our own city next to a pigs pasture and start slowly whipping out spies. Maybe there is a forest we can chop too.
 
Our gold situation looks extremely solid now.
Timbuktu is getting a bank next turn. :crazyeye:


With 1300:gold:, and a Great Merchant, and 20 cities to conquer in the next 25-30 turns, and another golden age when we get our next great person, and tiles to pillage when cities are burned I can't see us running out of gold in any meaningful way anymore.

So whip our new cities every other turn and our old cities every 3 or 4 turns and Woodsville whenever 1pop whip gets another unit out the next turn. No more wealth building except for maybe Vienna.
Timbuktu unwhipped is probably still good idea.
Can whip Aachen after trade mission and marble pigs after we get a new Great Person. Should we work more than 4 merchants there? We could start whipping it every other turn with 1 more great person produced.

Time for the home stretch!
:whipped::whipped::whipped::whipped:
 
Is it time to settle a coastal city so we can accelerate unit transfer?

With a coastal city on the north shore of Qin's lands we can move galleys into the city and offload units with movement left for them to move the same turn.
 
Top Bottom