SGOTM 17 - Unusual Suspects

[neilmeister]

Yes, it works for me.

The site near Mansa has Cows which we could immediately improve, and grass cows (4f2h) is a lot more appealing that dry rice (4f). I mean right next to Cows, Pigs & 1 banana, so they are all in the initial city square.

Both have bananas not covered in jungle, but the cows site also has riverside grass pigs... very nice, except its covered by jungle.

I'm now thinking that IW first is probably more desirable, simply down to those pigs. But I need to do some testing.

 

[neilmeister]

Riverside grass pigs is such a strong tile and it is right next to grass cows, I think it definitely sways the argument to IW first. Sorry SH, I think you were right all along!

IW first also allows us to follow us to develop the horses city a little faster.

 

[Deckhand]

Do we think Timbuktu is west or northwest of Djenne?


Should we consider city#3 E of marble? Is it better for Mansa to have it to build wonders for us?

I like early IW.

 

[neilmeister]

I think the marble is too far away, and we don't need it anyway, but the next city certainly needs to claim some of the resources to the west.

Timbuktu could be anywhere.

 

[SteelHorse]

Great play chris

Awesome, we have found exactly where mansa is and we are back in the lead (compared to the other teams).

right where we belong

Hmmm, now that we see more of the map, and where Mansa is, I'm most tempted to send the imminent settler to forest SW, to get 2 bananas, pigs, cows & FP.

edit: yet more testing awaits

What about the following (see dot map) 1W of river banana as city 3? 2 Pig, Banana, Cow, Marble. we could farm the banana, chop a monument, cottage the chopped riverside, and pasture the cow while we wait for IW. just a thought. it then leaves another decent backfill location.

Riverside grass pigs is such a strong tile and it is right next to grass cows, I think it definitely sways the argument to IW first. Sorry SH, I think you were right all along!

IW first also allows us to follow us to develop the horses city a little faster.

Well with 35 banana tiles and a test map that did not show the pigs in the jungle (j/k) it was hard not to go Math->Cal. Or had mansa gone Alpha->IW and been willing trade, we'd be v-happy right now.

But yes, I think now that there are some pigs wandering in the jungles with some gems to be mined, IW next

Pretty depressing that Mansa has more EP on us and we can't see his research. Looks to be semi-isolated.

Need to strategize on how not to be run over by him in tech and land if we are semi-isolated.

EDIT:crosspost

 

[SteelHorse]

Random thought.
The other piece of good news is with Mansa so close and us being in the corner, barbs should not be an issue. suggest a couple of warriors for spawnbust. maybe one archer to get to L4 for HE with a couple of tiles left for barbs to spawn on.

 

[neilmeister]

That location does look very nice, and even though it does need a border pop, I think we can be reasonably assured that Mansa will do it for us by sending buddhist missionaries.

With that in mind, maybe it would be wiser to settle on the coastal forest, 2E of your dot. It trades the second pig for a second banana, and loses the marble, but it is coastal and will therefore be insta-connected for trade routes. I'm also assuming that we will probably need to cross this ocean at some point, so coastal could be nice.

If we are isolated with Mansa, we are going to find land is a premium, and we might not want to settle too far from our core.

edit: also, that dot looks very suspiciously like a resource. open grassland completely surrounded by jungles i all directions. So we might not want to settle right on it.

edit2: I'm also thinking we want to fogbust our next 2 locations: Copper & horses.

edit3: Actually, your dot will also be insta-connected, as it is on the river.

 

[neilmeister]

There is so much food everywhere, but not much commerce or hammers.

We are going to have to use a lot of specialists I think.

 

[neilmeister]

One major problem I had in my testing was that our main cities ran out of useful stuff to build.

Now that we can see that we are stuck between the edge of the map and Mansa, I doubt barbs will be a big problem. Once we have both expanded to 1 or 2 more cities, there simply won't be enough space for the barbs to spawn in any numbers.

So, how is this for an oblique thought... research Alphabet now.

That way we can trade for whatever Mansa researched, which would hopefully include IW, but more to the point, our cities could then build research.

I will have to test it obviously, but it is worth a thought.


edit: sorry for the thread spamming..

 

[Deckhand]

Are you suggesting:
next, between the banananas,
then, horses,
finally, copper
?

 

[neilmeister]

Yes, that is the current thinking.

1st city near pigs. Exact location TBD
2nd Horses
3rd Copper or Rice or Filler or ??

 

[ChrisShaffer]

I will update the test map later today.

 

[SteelHorse]

will not be able to take a closer look until friday.
but a few good city locations. lots of options. want to see the maint costs of each.
i am not too worried about settling on remaining resources (oil, coal, allum, uranium) - they are all a ways off. if we keep mansa alive for now, we must wall off the land as highest priority. train tracks can be used to get a settler and workers down the line.
on research, i think IW first. i don't want to hope mansa has it if we go alpha and find out he doesn't.

 

[Trystero]

on research, i think IW first. i don't want to hope mansa has it if we go alpha and find out he doesn't.

Isn't the northern rice in Djenne in jungle? If so he will almost surely tech IW soon.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Yes, I agree, he will research ironworking very soon.

New test saves available:

825 BC

2000 BC

Worldbuilder

 

[ChrisShaffer]

One major problem I had in my testing was that our main cities ran out of useful stuff to build.

Isn't that usually a reason to build an army?

 

[neilmeister]

Hehe... usually, but we probably want Mansa around for a while to help us out tech wise.

Thanks for the new test saves, my wife has gone to visit her sister so I will have a fair amount of time over the next few days for testing.

 

[neilmeister]

Going straight for Alpha is certainly a gamble, but as the others have said IW should be a clear priority for Mansa. Also, this kind of gamble is what is required to win a SGOTM.

Both Maths & Alpha are worth more than IW, so we should hopefully be able to trade either for it.

 

[SteelHorse]

Going straight for Alpha is certainly a gamble, but as the others have said IW should be a clear priority for Mansa. Also, this kind of gamble is what is required to win a SGOTM.

Hmmm. Looking through some the sgotm winners, not sure I see as much gambling as I do sound analysis and great execution.

I am trying to figure what the downside of going IW next would be. Just because we can't trade for IW later doesn't mean that we lose the ability to trade math or alpha for something else we need.

 

[Trystero]

If we are isolated with Mansa, will he trade with us?