SGOTM 17 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Disappointed... At least it is on a river.

Guess we can move the Scout NW and the Worker 1 NW?

 

[Mad Professor]

Guess we can move the Scout NW and the Worker 1 NW?

I was going to suggest the Scout go NW from there again before we discuss much. Depends what he uncovers, if anything. Perhaps I should do that now.

 

[Mad Professor]

Moving the scout didn't get anything new, so I moved the worker 1NW and that did give some new info, Here is the new northern view:



Here is the save as it now stands with those units moved in case it's easier for some people to read it from the save rather than from the screen shots:

View attachment Quartermaster BC-2000a.CivBeyondSwordSave

Edit: I'll be gone for the next couple of hours, but you guys have a save to examine so I'm probably not needed. Maybe we should do some testing of options now?

 

[leif erikson]

Agree. Do not see a good reason not to move the Worker 1 tile NW as well.

edit - xposted. Would leave it up for others to see so we can decide what to test and where to settle.
edit2 - Off to

 

[Cactus Pete]

What about just 1N, which would uncover all the tiles that a city 2N of settler would encompass?

 

[Undecided]

Interesting surroundings.
Worker shouldn't go any further, it should start moving in the direction of the settler so we don't miss turns before improving tiles or chopping in the cap.

Ivory is nice and pigs is even better.

Will test a couple starts over the weekend.

I think everybody agrees to revolt to slavery at T0, so MP can go ahead and do this asap.

 

[The-Hawk]

If one of you world builder pros could post a test game, I have some time to do some testing.

 

[leif erikson]

Here you go. I think I have it correct?

 

[Undecided]

Glad i looked in the thread again, was about to make one too.
That was quick Leif.
Going to check if there are any mistakes now.

Edit: 1 Jungle 2N of pig has to be removed otherwise it's accurate and ready. Don't think reuploading without the jungle is necessary it's an easy fix and shouldn't change the opening regardless.

 

[leif erikson]

for the double check. I did it fairly quickly from screen shots, not the most accurate.

Let the fun begin.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Think we should move the worker 1N to make sure settling 2N is not clearly superior. If nothing found, then not sure settling in place isn't better because it will allow a settler out sooner. Presume Hawk will be testing this.

 

[Htadus]

Hello xteam. Signing in and welcome back Gator. Lets get this started .

Looked at the save and based on the green bar over the archer and the scout, it appears that there is a stronger unit out there somewhere. Likely a strength 6 or higher but not too high. LB? And is it an AI unit?

From Demograph page we see that the;

AI average soldiers = 38666 and that mean total of 232k.
Subract high and low ->232k-42k-38k = 152k
divide by remaining 4 AI = 152k/4= 38k

So one AI had 42k and others are nothing special. So is it Mansa or Hammy in this game? Or did KCD changing one of the standard AI unit with another unit? I can not find my unit value thread link right now but I will check that later.

Settling:
I think we have found the most likely place to settle where the archer is standing. I recommend switching to slavery as others proposed on T0 and settle the capital where the Archer is on T1. There is a 6 food tile to grow and build settlers/workers. It will have 2 mines to work, pigs and farmed banana. At size 4 it can go into a full expansion mode. We can chop a settler while building units and growing and then whip the settler first chance. Use the settler to found an early second city to claim something important like copper or horses.

However, if we can find those resources with the archer and the scout on T1, then we need to rethink the capital placement again. So we need to see what we can find out next turn before we settle. But for the time being, I propose 3W1S of settler.

Techs:
Alph sounds like a great tech that can help us speed up teching and it leads to Currency. Also CoL is great. I guess this is where the testing going to help. However, that can not happen untill we know where we are going to settle.

So, I will add to the testing effort once we know where to settle. Till later. Lets get this gold medal game started.

Oh btw, there are 1405 land tiles in this game. Think we are going to need Astro?

Edit: Worker to the hill and back to the capital to build a few mines, pasture and a farm or two. First build shold be a few fog busting warriors.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Believe it's going to be a golden laurel (not metal) game, Htadus, but concur with your basic premise. Also, you're right: worker onto the hill (1NE) is certainly better than 1N. Suggest MP does that before we decide on capital site and testing.

 

[leif erikson]

Concur with moving Worker to the hill, NE.

 

[The-Hawk]

Settling:
I think we have found the most likely place to settle where the archer is standing. Yes, unless the archer finds something good further west, this looks like the spot. I recommend switching to slavery as others proposed on T0 and settle the capital where the Archer is on T1. Agree on slavery immediately. There is a 6 food tile to grow and build settlers/workers. It will have 2 mines to work, pigs and farmed banana. At size 4 it can go into a full expansion mode. We can chop a settler while building units and growing and then whip the settler first chance. Use the settler to found an early second city to claim something important like copper or horses.

However, if we can find those resources with the archer and the scout on T1, then we need to rethink the capital placement again. So we need to see what we can find out next turn before we settle. But for the time being, I propose 3W1S of settler. Yes, before we settle on T1, we should move the archer NW just in case there is something else up there.

Techs:
Alph sounds like a great tech that can help us speed up teching and it leads to Currency. Also CoL is great. I guess this is where the testing going to help. However, that can not happen untill we know where we are going to settle.

I am thinking Math first. It opens up Currency as well, also Calendar. Most important, gives us the chop bonus right away. Having said that, lots of other options. CoL could give us an early religion, Metal Casting would supply forges, Poly could give religion and allows beeline to GR Lib. Lots of choices.

So, I will add to the testing effort once we know where to settle. Yeah, I think you are right. We should move the archer and decide where to settle before we spend time testing. Till later. Lets get this gold medal game started.

Oh btw, there are 1405 land tiles in this game. Think we are going to need Astro? Its sort of hard to believe we won't. Otherwise this will be a pretty quick game in spite of the hard start.

Edit: Worker to the hill I'm not so sure about this. It means 1 extra lost turn before he starts to improve tiles. Unless one of the FOW tiles above the Jumbos has a food resource, I can't imagine we would place our capital up there. Maybe someone can do some fog gazing on the real save, if those are forest tiles, then I would not waste a vital early worker turn. I would move him SW. and back to the capital to build a few mines, pasture and a farm or two. First build shold be a few fog busting warriors.

I would consider a granary first. Since we have pastures and chopping available (and a worker), we can easily get the granary done before barbs show up. However, we can sort this out when we get into testing.

Edit: I did some fog gazing. Looks like the tile N or the western Jumbo is clear. Could well be food. Question is... is it worth a worker turn to find out? If it is another Pig, then settling where the worker is right now might be an option. Of would we still go to the archer spot?

 

[Htadus]

@ Hawk,

If you do not intend to pull the worker back right now, the hill is the bast choice. But we can start recalling the worker and start the chopping process 1 turn sooner. Otherwise, we will not have access to improve any significant tile until the culture expand.

Math is not a bad thing but it is a AI crowd favorite I would rather trade for it. CoL is definitely a power move in my book and will allow some good trade opportunity if such option is possible. We would need a few trading partners for that since AI will also tend to tech Alpha. I think this is something we will test.

As for why I want to build the barb busters is that no barb spawning is better than barb killing until we want to kill barbs. I did think about the granary but I was thinking after whipping the first settler we can build our granary while allowing the city to grow. The earliest second city in the correct location will not add too much cost and will give either a resource or a commerce (cottage) or specialist city. This game is going to come down to who gets engineering first. SO maybe we go for MC first.

I am ready for some test games.

 

[Mad Professor]

Interesting surroundings.
Worker shouldn't go any further, it should start moving in the direction of the settler so we don't miss turns before improving tiles or chopping in the cap.

Undecided I think yours is the only dissenting voice to moving the worker further. If the settler is going west then we do indeed sacrifice worker turn by moving him to the hill 1 NE, but that's all since if we were to settle where the archer is, then there will be a turn lost settling anyway. If the settler is to go north to take advantage of elephants, then there may not even be any worker turns lost by moving the worker to the grassland hill 1 NE of him now.

Ivory is nice and pigs is even better.

Yes, it's the pigs that tips it westward in my opinion. The two elephants plus the grassland hill to the north are actually better than the two hills to the south and west because of the gold involved in the elephant camps, but the pigs don't seem to have an equivalent at the elephant site pre-calendar. Both are good spots though.

I think everybody agrees to revolt to slavery at T0, so MP can go ahead and do this asap.

I agree. Delaying revolts will only be worse than doing it as as soon as possible. The only exception to this would be if somehow we didn't want to use slavery for some time, and I can't see that happening, especially when we have some high food tiles around.

I think I will go ahead and move the worker to the grassland Hill 1 NE of where he is at the moment, then the test game can be adjusted for the new view, and then we can get some testing done.

 

[Mad Professor]

OK. I did that. Yet more elephants to the north.

I haven't made any civic changes yet, but would do so immediately on resuming play after testing.

Here's the new view in the north:


Here's the save with the worker moved another tile and the new northern view:
View attachment Quartermaster BC-2000b.CivBeyondSwordSave

Incidentally, if we choose the northern site we can now get three grassland elephants, a grassland hill, fresh water and some forests and not lose any worker turns for using the worler to explore. A little more tempting than two elephants was...

 

[DJMGator13]

Looks good. Moving archer and scout before settling next turn should help finalize capital location.

 

[leif erikson]

Updated save.

Like 2 north.

edit - thinking we should test how fast we can get HBR and Construction to begin pounding someone?