SGOTM 18 - Kakumeika

AlanH

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Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 18 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the
Maintenance Thread
for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

You can find the Game Details in the first post of the Maintenance Thread. If any changes occur in the game settings or rules, I shall post them in that thread, and edit that post.

Please wait until your team leader/administrator/scribe has reserved a couple of top posts in this thread for game admin information. Then post here to let your team know you have arrived.

Good luck, have fun ... and never trust a mapmaker :mischief:
 
Welcome to another SGOTM game, everyone! A warm welcome to our newest member Seraiel! Team discussion & play guidelines will be posted shortly

Please read the rules of play. I'd like to return to a more structured planning and discussion if possible this game. This includes reviewing the grand strategy each turn. Please read through the team guidelines even if you think you know them.

If you want to suggest any changes please let me know.

The Rules of Play

1. All standard GOTM rules apply. Mainly, we get 1 shot, no replays, period!
2. No viewing other team threads, period!
3. Have FUN, compete fairly, please feel free to suggest your ideas. We want to encourage everyone to contribute all of their ideas, so we can stumble onto the best ones :)

The following rules have been stolen from Murky Waters and edited, all credit given to Erkon.

The following rules apply to all players in the Kakumeika SGOTM 18 team.

Ensure that you have read and understood the rules provided by the administrators (C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread)* and follow any ongoing discussion at the SGOTM 18 Maintenance Thread

The next player shall post a ”got it” within 24 hours of the upload of the previous game. Else the next available player has the right to post the ”got it”. These rules replaces guideline 6 and 7 in the C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread. To ensure a smooth handover, please post the ”got it” within 24 hours.

After posting the "got it" please put up a roughdraft of a the Grand Strategy and a Goal Oriented Pre-Play-Plan (PPP) within 24 hours of the "got it". If you can't for whatever reason put up a roughdraft of your PPP within 24 hours of the got it please request to postpone or pass your turn to the next player.

To facilitate the group consensus style of play we had in the last game and to make it easier for active player and the team to be involved I suggest a 3 part planning process for turns starting with the grand strategy.

The grand strategy is the strategy that we currently are pursuing to win the game. It was suggested that we keep the grand strategy on the first page. I'm happy to reserve a space and do that, however I think it is should also be copied and posted again before each turn set by the active player so that it is fresh in that player's mind and we don't miss some opportunity to change the plan for the better.

So I suggest the active player copy, review, and suggest changes to the grand strategy before they plan the goals and details of their turn set. The grand strategy would include the victory condition and the stages or phases of the game we need to achieve that victory condition.

For example the Ducks grand strategy in the sgotm15 game was something like (*just for example purposes--not sure this is exactly right*)
-Goal Fastest Conquest
-expand and set up bulb of mathematics and chop out key city improvements
-build the Oracle and get Code of Laws
-settle and grow 6-8 cities
-generate enough great scientists to bulb to astronomy
-switch to war effort and kill everything including the wizard

An individual turn set would probably only happen in one of the phases that I laid out in the example above, but it is important for us to review the grand strategy before we make the specific plans for our turn sets.

Our grand strategy will obviously develop as we learn more about the game through exploration, testing and discussion and could completely change depending on how things develop.

Once the grand strategy is reviewed by the active player and the current turn is put into that context, the active player can develop a more specific plan for their turn set but still goal orientated rather than planned out with micro.

The player can post a goal oriented Pre-Play-Plan (PPP)
The goal oriented PPP would include:
research (& research trades)
city builds (not tile use)
worker goals (not turn by turn movements)
diplo actions (including resource trades, war declarations, begs, etc)
civic changes planned
espionage
general war plans if applicable, i.e. take this city first or form stack here
stopping points
contingency plans

The purpose of posting a goal oriented PPP first is to save the active player some work. The other players would be asked to suggest changes to the goal oriented PPP before the micro details (turn by turn city builds, tile use, worker movements, whips, chops, war movements) are planned out.

Once the specific goals are agreed upon, then the active player can develop a micro plan which includes the micro details the team thinks this is necessary. (Or the active player can request help with an aspect of the micro from someone else on the team)

Once the micro PPP is produced (same as the goal oriented PPP just with micro details), another round of feedback can start if necessary.

Of course in the course of working out the specific goals, or the micro new opportunities might arise, so it might not be a linear process.

After the goal oriented PPP is posted give the team at least 24 hours to respond. Do you best to respond quickly to any feedback by editting your PPP or by posting why you disagree. We hope to keep this response time to maximum of 48 hours, however if there is still a lot of disagreement after 48 hours, I'll extend this discussion period.

After the 24 hours (minimum) discussion time, post a detailed PPP with all necessary micro and allow another 24 hours for players to comment. If possible after that post a time 12-24 hours in advance of when you intend to play to allow others to either follow by online chat or just to be online for posts.

We are also encouraging players to chat online if possible during their turnsets so an available team member can be consulted for significant unexpected events or just to be included for exciting developments as you play. This may not be possible for everyone and we will exchange contact info for those interested by pm.

We also encourage you to stop playing a turnset and upload if something unexpected and/or unplanned for happens.

No-one is forced to play a turn set. You don’t need to announce the reason for skipping a turn set. Any players can swap turn sets if they announce the swap in time. I request you to make it clear when you intend to skip a turn. Please post as quick as possible to reduce unnecessary confusion and delays.

Please use smiles and emotes in your posts as much as possible. Jokes, humor, sarcasm and offensive language can and will be misinterpreted. Remember that written text is a poor method to convey feelings. Several of us are not native to the English language. The differences in culture is also a source for misunderstanding. If you get upset by a post, please wait a few hours before you respond.

We hope we can come to a consensus on most issues, but if we can not it should be decided by the active player after the team has debated the issue. If you run into a situation where you need advice, please upload the save and let the rest of us take a look. Or post a quick request for advice. It’s better to delay the game a day than build the Globe Theater in the wrong city. Don't be afraid to admit a mistake or off-plan move as well. We all will make some especially with difficulty of tracking so many details.

Don’t promote units until they are close to action (unless the promotion increases movement). If you are unsure of suitable promotions, don’t hesitate to bring that up for discussion.

Don’t play intoxicated (from alcohol, drugs or smoke). Don’t play when you are too tired. Or when you have your kids/wife screaming at you.

Try to keep track of the diplomatic events each turn, and visit each city regularly. It’s mandatory to check cities that grow or have a border expansion. Remember that the number of happy people will change due to changes in war weariness (WW), gained/lost resources etc. Keep track of specialists. We don’t want to pollute the great person pool. Please respect the micro management plans.

Please contact AlanH if your game crashes, even if you can repeat all your moves.

If you PM the team, please ensure every one receives a copy.

Remember that a lot of players read what we post. Don't be rude or disrespectful to any one not on our team.

Try to run a test game or two before we start. Your experience may either confirm or contradict some one else's, and is therefore valuable.

The goals for Kakumeika are
1) to get the GOLD!
2) learn something through exhaustive debate about the grand strategy, the goals for each turn set, the inner-workings of the code, and best micro plans.
3) have fun

Ensure that your autosave config is set to save every turn. Don't forget to enable all HOF settings in case you lost them during a dual-install or whatever reason. And set the first-turn-setting to first turn = 0. This will reduce future confusion.

When you state the turn/year research is completed (or any other event), please use the turn you get the report. So if the research for polytheism shows it will be completed at the end of T12 then when T13 starts we get the report of our completion of polytheism. Please report that polytheism finished on T13. Or if we build an axeman and it will finish at the end of T25, report that it finished on T26 (the first turn that we can actually move the axeman).

When we have uploaded the final save, and this has been reported by the active player, you are free to read other team threads. When their game is over, you are free to post in their threads as well.
 
*Draft*

Grand Strategy:
Mission summary: Recapture SP, make it legendary with espionage, raze Dr. Evil's Lair w/Paratroopers, Achieve Diplo victory with votes from Mansa and Gandhi (Dr. Evil as opponent) [Need to validate need for Paratroopers].

General:
- Maintain relationship with Mansa and Gandhi. Give in to Mansa demands. Probably also give in to Gandhi for +diplo, but recall Gandhi doesn't give -1 diplo for some things.
Work on building a shared religion with Mansa Musa & Gandhi.
- Don't tech Liberalism cause then we have to have Free Religion (This implies no Communism and no Intelligence Agencies)
- Since Paratroopers require Railroad and Assembly Line, plan for a GE for Mining Inc and get this corp up as fast as possible. [Validate need for Paratroopers]
- Consider options for stealing any advanced Technology an AI might possess on t0; Dr. Evil for example might have Fascism which we could steal as soon as we have the prerequisites.
- Empire/War plan: Capture cities fast. Fast does not imply: early. We don't need to start war ASAP, but once we do, make it quick. Take all GK, Joao, and Goldmember cities + Swinger's Pad and raze Dr. Evil's Lair. Take a lot of Dr. Evil's cities too, but eventually plan to gift him enough population to be our opponent for Diplo Victory. Try to share wars with Mansa Musa & Gandhi.

Short term goals (in order):
01) Beeline Alpha.
02) Expand peacefully at first since no neighbors are close (possible exception a short worker stealing war w/ GK)
03) Get at least currency before considering World War I.
04) Trade for Theology, tech Paper and double bulb Education!
05) World War I We were not able to get anyone into our later GK wars: DO NOT kill GK scouts because we will try to keep GK alive with "Require Complete Kills". The goal being +Shared War diplo. Take all GK cities. Will use Horse Archers for a fast attack. May give GK a city later, if his Scouts are at risk of elimination.
06) Trade for Code of Laws that Mansa Musa is/has researched + Wealth for Paper probably.
07) Plan to generate a Great Spy in Capitalist at highest reasonable odds, which means building a Courthouse and running a Spy specialist with as few non-Great Spy GPPs as possible, but enough to actually generate a Great Person.
08) Trade Code of Laws + Wealth for Paper.
09) Trade Civil Service + other techs + Wealth for Education; Trade Machinery + other techs + Wealth for Education.
10) GS bulb Printing Press after we have Education and Machinery.
11) Research Gunpowder after Paper and Education is double bulbed.
12) Start capturing Goldmember/Dr. Evil cities that are close to our empire (on-going goal).
13) Beeline Edu/Oxford (plan ahead for a GS double bulb) in Capitalist or Pigs (build Palace).
14)
15) World War II: Joao. Get M + G to join war and avoid "-Declared on our friend". Take all Joao cities.
16) Recapture Swingers' Pad (possibly do this before WWII, but it's probably not desirable)
17) Add as much seed culture to Swingers' Pad as possible (at least 100-2000, preferably more if it can be done quickly).
18) Give Swingers' Pad back to an AI other than Dr. Evil to maximize City Culture espionage discount.
19) Beeline Mining Inc/Assembly Line (if Paratroopers are required)
20) Only after Mining Inc founded (or Steel if Paratroopers are not needed), build spies and get them in SP. Move the Palace next to Swinger's Pad.
21) Beeline MassMedia, start the UN (no need to rush with GE, gold, etc.)
22) Run 100% espionage slider to get Swinger's Pad to legendary with spies (research is completed with specialist and build Research because of Mining Inc); when legendary take ownership of SP.
23) Beeline Paratroopers (if needed): Raze Dr. Evil's Lair
24) Diplo victory with votes from Mansa and Gandhi (Dr. Evil as opponent)
 
Greetings Bcool, Mabraham, WastinTime, Sun Tzu Wu, and Seraiel! and lurkers too


Our 5th team game and 1st for our eager new recruit.

Hope you are all looking forward to the Austin Powers themed team game starting in 1 week!
 
Checking in. I'm out of town for 4 days. I'll try to keep up. Try not to have 10 pages of strategy by then. :crazyeye:

Settler: 1N is the only move I can commit to so far.
 
Welcome back old friends (four years ... er ... four SGOTMs is a long time).

Plus a big welcome to our most enthusiastic and newest member, Seraiel!

Sun Tzu Wu
 
We could and should talk about grand strategy now.

Not much point in speculating about the start. Just determine how we can reveal plots that would affect the location of our capital.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
I'll post something to this, once I've finished my current game, which shouldn't take that long. In general, I think we should try to get into Space with this game, because with WastinTime and me, you got some serious Spacerace specialists here.

The way there is usually quite simple. Fastest I know is, to beeline Alpha, get all the basic techs with it, see if anybody has researched Priesthood at all, if so, chopwhip Oracle for Currency, if not, research CoL and Oracle Civil Service (with Math either by trade or through bulbing it) . I somehow doubt that the start will be good enough for something, but it's also only Immortal, and we have no idea what to expect.. Main factor mostly is the number of AIs in the game, with as little as 6 AIs, Oracle-dates like 1000 BC are still realistic.

After that, the most difficult thing basically is, to get Philosphy somehow, as the research usually is fastest when beelining Education to whip Universities and preferably 1-turn-build Oxford. Getting Music often is too big of a distraction, as I find getting the Mids is. I'd say, simply rex to the magic 7 cities, ignore every Wonder except Oracle (and maybe the MoM and TM, or except we get a really good chance at one, but most simply last too short if teching efficiently) , switch to Pacifism as early as possible, create as many GSs as possible and bulb as heavy as possible towards Victory.

It's probably advisable to Lib as late as possible, because it forces us out of Pacifism and into Free Religion. If getting Philosophy gets too difficult though, we should simply stay in OR as that Civic is required anyhow for whipping the Universities. The most disirable Lib-target for Spacce usually is Biology, and in general, it's a really easy way of winning, as it only requires to work the best tiles all the time. What's most difficult is, getting the GE for Mining, and here, I'd propose to better simply work as many Engineers mixed with other Specialists over all cities, preferably try to get a super-GA (GA fueled by MoM) to create 4-5 GPs in 1 GA, that'd be 5 chances of at least 20% at a GE, which should be enough, and even if not, chaining another GA is no problem with so many GPs created.

Something also saving some really valuable turns in the end, is starting another GA when building the Spaceship parts, something we wanna do in 16 cities, if we can conquer so many (should actually be np) . Tech-path after Biology is too beeline Superconductors, because setting up the Laboratories takes some time and they're also a nice enhancement in research. It's important to reach Superconductors via Computers iirc, because Radio is needed iirc. It's also the faster way to get to Fusion, which should be researched directly after getting Rocketry, because building the Engines usually takes longer then the missing techs at that time.

I think I don't have to mention the various little things, like that all Cottages should have pre-built Workshops and stuff like that, or do I? ^^

That's it from me for the moment, maybe you'll discuss if Space is the fastest possible victory at all with these settings, I somehow just get the feeling, that going for Diplomacy would be ten times easier (and even faster) ^^ .
 
Ok, for those for which that was too long, here is my plan:

We play.
We win.
End.

Regarding the chosen Victory Type, I'm sure that getting the Swinger Pad to Legendary will take the most time. We need Math on this to know, how we shall get that thing to legendary at all, when Culture Bombs aren't allowed and Culture via Espionage must not exceed 4000 points. This will tell us which victories are open. I personally assume, that Diplomacy will be the easiest and the fastest. Culture could be an option, Space will probably take to long because getting the pad to Legendary without the help of the Culture Slider is probably inefficient.
 
Btw.: Are you / we using any sort of chat or voice program? I could offer Skype, or if you prefer to chat, we could simply register an IRC channel somewhere.
 
Assuming we need some kind of big tech to get to Dr Evil's Lair (paratroopers are hinted at), then the game will go late. At some point we'll need an army to take DEL. (I suggest we refer to "DEL" or "the lair".)

Apparently it will take time to re-capture the Swinger's Pad. It has to become legendary without Great Works; probably caste artists won't help either if the game goes late. That suggests making it a hammer city and using Sushi and Build Culture (perhaps with Mining).

Probably the UN opponent matrix has been doctored a bit (as well as our own philandering, apparently) so aiming for UN seems fraught with problems. We can switch horses to that in the mid game if we need to.

It is not easy to see how a Culture victory would work. The Swinger's Pad could use culture through espionage, but that means some other culture must be there. Not sure if a minor civ makes that possible. Note that the "two cities can't use espionage" criterion is just nerfing the exploit Ducks used in SGOTM16 to get fast legendary cities; you can just play a normal low-espionage culture game and fulfil the constraint so long as you do not culture-bomb the Swinger's Pad. However, a "normal" fast culture game (stop tech at about Lib) will likely not have the tech to get to the lair. So a Sushi-culture game is probably the right option to bear in mind.

This does suggest we aim at super-fast tech, and adapt in the midgame to whichever VC the situation suggests. Probably Sushi will be common to all approaches. Mining if not UN. Fortunately we have a good pedigree here: SGOTM14 had us win silver with the UN two turns slower than the fastest conquest. :)
 
Ok, for those for which that was too long, here is my plan:

We play.
We win.
End.

Regarding the chosen Victory Type, I'm sure that getting the Swinger Pad to Legendary will take the most time. We need Math on this to know, how we shall get that thing to legendary at all, when Culture Bombs aren't allowed and Culture via Espionage must not exceed 4000 points. This will tell us which victories are open. I personally assume, that Diplomacy will be the easiest and the fastest. Culture could be an option, Space will probably take to long because getting the pad to Legendary without the help of the Culture Slider is probably inefficient.

Getting SP to LC will take a long time. Note that the constraint on espionage-culture is only on two of the LCs, *and* only for a Culture VC. Objective 3 has no constraint other than no culture bombs.

Hence my thinking that if Space looks fastest, SP will be doing a lot of Build Culture, plus Sushi and artists. It does have a nice river and OK food.
 
Btw.: Are you / we using any sort of chat or voice program? I could offer Skype, or if you prefer to chat, we could simply register an IRC channel somewhere.

We tend to keep almost all discussion to the forum. This is generally preferred, so that lurkers can follow along, people can refer to past discussion (the game does take months, after all) etc.

bcool and I have used Google chat during each other's turn sets for quick consults. I'm happy using whatever medium suits others. That could be a voice channel if we want. But I prefer most substantive strategy discussion to be written and on the forum.
 
As far as opening moves go, as always, I think we should have a default plan and scout those things that would make us change from the default. If the default would be to settle somewhere on the eastern river, then settler 1N caters to a little exploration north before accepting the default. Assuming we see nothing with settler 1N, then warrior 1NW seems best.
 
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