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SGOTM 18 - Plastic Ducks

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Work in progress....
    Code:
    X	Y		Closest	Second	Third
    43	9		PDB	Shaka	GK
    [COLOR="Red"]43	12		PDB	GK	Shaka
    43	15		PDB	GK	Shaka
    43	18		PDB	GK	Shaka
    43	21		PDB	GK	Shaka
    43	24		GK	PDB	MM
    42	27		GK	PDB	MM
    33	31		GK	PDB	MM
    27	31		GK	MM	Joao
    24	31		GK	MM	Joao
    32	22		GK	PDB	MM
    35	22		GK	PDB	MM[/COLOR]
    [COLOR="red"]32	15		PDB	GK	Shaka
    29	15		PDB	GK	Shaka
    29	18		PDB	GK	Joao
    26	19		GK	PDB	Joao[/COLOR]
    [COLOR="DarkOrchid"]23	19		Joao	MM	GK[/COLOR]
    28	12		PDB	Shaka	Joao
    22	12		Shaka	Joao	PDB
    18	9		Shaka	Joao	Ragnar
    [COLOR="Blue"]20	23		MM	Joao	GK[/COLOR]
    [COLOR="Red"]24	31		GK	MM	Joao[/COLOR]
    [COLOR="blue"]20	31		MM	GK	Joao
    14	31		MM	Gandhi	Joao
    11	31		MM	Gandhi	Joao
    10	25		MM	Gandhi	Joao[/COLOR]
    [COLOR="DarkOrchid"]14	21		Joao	MM	Gandhi
    16	18		Joao	MM	Gandhi
    16	15		Joao	MM	Gandhi[/COLOR]
    12	13		Joao	Gandhi	MM
    9	13		Joao	Gandhi	Ragnar
    6	13		Joao	Gandhi	Ragnar
    3	12		Gandhi/Joao		Ragnar
    0	12		Gandhi	Ragnar	Joao
    5	10		Ragnar	Joao	Gandhi
    8	10		Joao/Ragnar		Gandhi
    8	7		Ragnar	Joao	Shaka
    11	5		Ragnar	Shaka	Joao
    
    [COLOR="Red"]Red[/COLOR] valid spots for GK
    [COLOR="Blue"]Blue[/COLOR] valid spots for MM
    [COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Purple[/COLOR] possibly valid for MM once we get Joao's capital to move...
    
    Given that we will move our capital in between Ragnar's and Joao's current capitals towards the end (Ulundi being closest), all the spots where PDB is first will be liberated to the second AI on the list.

    It appears GK is very easy to liberate cities to, at least from the spots I've looked at so far. We have roughly the same attitude towards Joao and GK, let's pick GK just because it's cool :cool:

    I do have to check the validity of liberating cities that are under strong cultural influence from neighbouring cities... so I'll edit this in as I go.

    EDIT: Liberating cities that will be heavily influenced by your culture works no problem. However we'll get hit by close borders tension so there's that to consider.

    EDIT2:
    -2 border tension with MM
    -2 Joao
    -4 with GK
     
  2. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Excellent work. :goodjob:

    Doesn't the X axis stop at 43? E.g. Philadelphia is at X:39, Y:8, with four tiles east of that.
     
  3. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Probably miscounted :( ... I'll fix the numbers.
     
  4. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    I'll gift some resources to Genghis to start earning our +2 relations. I don't think we can get the tech trading bonus, since Civil Service blocks off the subsequent Paper gifts, and we stole/traded for a ton of stuff around that time.

    For warring, do you have any thoughts about going after the Golden Dome, or GM more generally? It seems like a long and difficult trek to me. Would you prefer to focus on Joao/MM/Gandhi?

    A Galleon/Frigate combo may be the only cost effective way to do this, and that won't be for 10 turns or so. The AI isn't great at preparing for sneak naval attacks. The reasons to attack are: (1) settled Great People; (2) one less Lib threat.
     
  5. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Diplo stance

    GK: currently -10
    Positives:
    +1 OB after 25 turns
    +2 resources after 100 resource-turns
    +3 fair trade

    Negatives:
    -1 worst scoreboard rank
    -1 base
    -3 border tension
    -random ?
    ---
    Leaving us around -9~10 with him. I'll use -10 to be conservative...
    8--10 = 18
    18/1.5 = 12 city liberation... ouch this is rough. We can presumably liberate some of his old cities back

    I'm not sure if this last war was justified. The good news is we have 16 candidates to liberate to him.

    It really appears Joao would be even more complicated since there aren't many spots to liberate for him... besides his current cities.

    ~~~

    MM: currently 0
    Positives:
    +1 OB after 25 turns
    +2 resources after 100 resource-turns
    +1 base
    +1 shared war ?
    +4 tech gifts

    Negatives:
    -3 religion
    -random ?

    ---
    So we'd around 5~6 with MM.
    2~3 city liberations

    Another DoW would need 3 more cities liberated: we'd lose the OB bonus. There's one that was captured by Joao also which we can liberate for easy brownie points.

    We have 9 potential spots for him plus some of his old cities that we will liberate so that the vote can be triggered.

    ~~~~
    SUMMARY:
    12 cities to GK (plus possibly Karakorum)
    3~6 cities to Mansa (plus possibly Djenne, Timbuktu, KS and whatever we'd capture from him if we war again)
    Summary:
     
  6. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    We can convert Genghis Khan at Pleased, for +5 diplo (unless this atrophies as the game continues?). Mansa will adopt a religion at Cautious, granting +7. We'd just need to save some techs to do this when they like us enough.

    I know the bonus accumulates by +1 every 10 turns that pass, so it may also go down every 10 turns the AI is out of Judaism.
     
  7. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Gift as much as you can, we can cancel the deal after 10 turns anyway.
    I don't think we'll get the technology freebie as you say...

    For Ragnar: Ideally, I'd just blockade him into stone age. He's our only real threat to Liberalism (really no clue where he's at now.... but hard to imagine he's doing great with all those units.
    Last we could tell he got Compass (post #3293) and for sure he's researched Optics.

    At best, he probably has ~100 bpt ((8*4+3)*1.25+(5*4+2)+(3*4+2) = 80b). I'd be surprised if we went to Education already... but even if he's researching it, he'd need something around 20 turns... we *should* be safe.
     
  8. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    We have to go into Free Religion after Liberalism unfortunately...
     
  9. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Ahhhh. Yes, good point about civics. Still, that means no negative hits from religions.

    We also can't exceed 60% of the world pop. We're at 65.47% now, but whipping and the gifts will help to sort this out.

    Ragnar built the Heroic Epic during your turn set (about T145), so probably went to Literature after Optics.
     
  10. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Yep, true forgot to mention ^^

    Negative hit from religion I counted for MM is because we're currently getting +3 from it... so that will vanish and "result" in -3 from current stance.
     
  11. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Ok, I'll resume playing. I'm going to shift most troops northwards, but will leave a healthy defense force near the Swinger's Pad and Ulundi, just in case of an emergency.

    I assume Mansa will switch into Taoism or Islam sooner or later.
     
  12. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Now it's truly getting late so I'll catch up tomorrow...
     
  13. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    I ended the turn. Not much happened. Joao has formed a stack, and we're back in Slavery/OR. I'll make moves for a while more.

    Tomorrow, I'll be busy in the day but am free in the evening. You have my :thumbsup: if you play during the day.
     
  14. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    I uploaded the EOT. I think everything is set, but there are a few debatable whips (like Coimbra, Philadelphia). I have only whipped two buildings so far: the Observatory in Synanceia and the Levee in Djenne:

    Spoiler :

    Judaism and Buddhism spread to the Swinger's Pad. Joao's stack is gone:

    Spoiler :


    The War Elephant and HArcher by Oporto also died.

    I started moving our siege to Braga:

    Spoiler :

    The Scout is 1S of Guimares, and can heal units in this area. Most of the Knights in Guimares itself have moved, but they will catch up in a turn or so. If you want to move anything in this area, feel free.

    Joao has a Scout hovering between Boston/Coimbra/Lagos.

    Specialists in the :gp: farms are all fine.

    Research was above 2000BPT when we were in Caste.
     
  15. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Niiice. Now we just need to get Hinduism in SP and maybe Christianity.

    I went through the game and placed down 24 city liberation spots: 16 for GK and 8 for MM. I will make a list here of what conditions should be fulfilled in order that the liberation bonus works. We could presumably start making some of these after Factories so that we're not in a big rush at the end of the game... similar to those spies.

    http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Plastic_Ducks_SG018_AD0920_02.CivBeyondSwordSave
     
  16. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    9 to GK sooner than later
    Code:
    GK: anytime 
    43	24
    42	27
    33	31
    27	31
    24	31
    32	22
    35	22
    26	19
    24	31
    7 to GK near the end of the game (settlers should just be in position)
    Code:
    GK: after moving capital to SP area	
    43	12
    43	15
    43	18
    43	21
    32	15
    29	15
    29	18
    4 to MM sooner than later (we do have to decide whether we will war him again... I think we'll gain a net positive out of it but it's still tricky)
    Code:
    MM: anytime	
    20	31
    14	31
    11	31
    10	25
    4 whenever Joao's capital moves. We don't need as much for MM as for GK but it's something.
    Code:
    MM: after forcing Joao's capital away	
    23	19
    14	21
    16	18
    16	15
    ~~~

    City liberation process seems to be capped at 35.5 distance from capital... at least on the map I checked: standard Great Plains.
    e.g.
    This is the setup. I've placed Genghis with 4 cities so that he would not accept a gift of a city further away from his closest city than 9.5 tiles distance.
    Spoiler :


    As evidenced here, Madrid is not a valid city gift at 10 distance away from Karakorum.
    Spoiler :


    However... placing a large amount of cities at 35.5 tiles away from him...
    Spoiler :


    He's willing to take any of them that are not closer to our capital...
    Spoiler :


    ... despite some lion-sized financial issues. (I've given him a few hundred lions :lol:)
    Spoiler :


    ...resulting in a very happy GK :)
    Spoiler :


    Never mind that now he's really broke...
    Spoiler :


    ~~~

    All that being done and said, the greatest liberation distance we're looking at here is 23.5 tiles for (43,12), well under the limit.
     
  17. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Forgot to mention... Gandhi is working on Sistine Chapel I think... ~250H so we can sell him a tech shortly.
     
  18. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Nice work. Several cities are either done, or more or less done with infra-structure now (e.g. New York, soon Synanceia, Beshbalik) so you can begin to work some Spies and/or Settlers into the build queues. In fact, NY should eventually give most of its tiles over to Philadelphia, so we can presumably whip 6 of the excess pop into Settlers. Although, actually, we can build Jails next turn, so perhaps we should take advantage of OR while we still can.

    With the Sistine Chapel fail :gold: , we should have enough money to research until ~T171. Karakorum is supposed to run six Great People on T171, i.e. the turn that Angkor Wat is built, so we will have some more gold at that point.

    Portugal should roll over now. I can't remember whether Gandhi has built any Walls or Castles, but for the most part we can simply suicide our regular troops and overwhelm him with weight of numbers.
     
  19. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    We'll get further fail gold from Hermitage and, possibly, Mt. Rushmore. After SP, we'll only need 2~3 cities to build wealth to break even so I'm not worried about gold really...

    I still have one big issue to resolve on my end before next Wednesday... been plaguing me for a couple weeks. Stupid irregular elements :wallbash:. We always joke about architects... sure it looks nice but sooo much more complicated :cringe:
     
  20. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    I'm going to start carrying this post around because it's too useful...

    All rights reserved to Doshin.

    Beshbalik (= 800) <-------- GScientist
    Lisbon (= 900) <-------- GSpy/Engineer
    Oporto (= 1000) <-------- GArtist
    Karakorum (= 1200) <-------- GProphet / GEngineer
    Beshbalik (= 1400) <-------- GScientist
    Member's Only: GEngineer/GArtist/GSpy

    Spoiler :
    Column 1
    Turn Beshbalik Lisbon Oporto Karakorum Member's Only
    156 284 (+5) 538 (+2) 510 (+2) 474 368
    157 347 563 535 498 388
    158 410 588 560 522 408
    159 473 613 585 546 428
    160 536 638 610 570 448
    161 599 (+17) 663 635 (+4) 594 (+4) 468
    162* 842 = 42/900 (+11) 698 691 650 .
    163 186 733 (+3) 747 706 (+3) .
    164 330 763 777 745 .
    165 474 793 807 784 .
    166 618 (+5) 823 (+2) 837 823 .
    167 672 843 867 (+1) 849 .
    168 726 863 (+4) 881 875 (+2) .
    169* 780 907/900 895 (+5) 895 .
    170 834 933 933 .
    171 888 971 971 (+6) .
    172* 942 1009/1000 1015 .
    173 996 1059 .
    174 1050 1103 .
    175 1104 1147 .
    176 1158 1191 .
    177* 1212 1235/1200 .
    178 1266 .
    179 1320 .
    180 1374 .
    181* 1428 .


    T151–55 = Pacifism
    T162–66 = Pacifism
    T163 = Parthenon effect discounted (approximate estimate)
    T169 = GA#4 begins
    T181 = GA#5 begins

    Numbers in round (brackets) = number of Great People that should be running (includes TGL and ToA Great Peeps)

    ----

    All of the above will be subject to change, according to how the game proceeds. We can use out intuition, but this is as good an outline as any with which to begin.

    -----

    Golden Age #4: GMerchant (got) + GScientist (MUST be from Physics) + GSpy/GEngineer (Lisbon)
    Golden Age #5: GMerchant (Econ) + GArtist (Oporto) + GProphet/Engineer (Karakorum) + GScientist (Beshbalik)
     

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