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SGOTM 18 - Xteam

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    That an improvement. :)

    Scientist? Pyramids give engineer points. Guess he had some specialists on?

    Well they'll be peeved for a while. I've done worse miss-clicks though...:rolleyes:

    I'll have a good close look through the save on Monday.
     
  2. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    We certainly need to discuss VC because the capital cities we can see are really quite well endowed with resources. Who do we be nice to and who do we smack, and will we be able to take them quickly? At Immortal and with hammer production I can see, unit spam will be a snap for the AI. :eek:
     
  3. The-Hawk

    The-Hawk Old Original Geezer

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    Good stuff Sengir! :goodjob:

    Looks like we will be going to war with Joao to allow access to Swingers Pad. There are some really nice looking sites in his area, I especially like the 2 cow/1 pig/iron site south of Lisbon. I hope he doesn't screw them up with his settling. He already sort of hosed up Lisbon, it is lacking food.

    Lots of metal on this map, should we be thinking about Mining Inc? I guess is will be hard to get a GE without the Mids?

    Shouldn't we be putting all of our espionage onto Evil? We will need the EP for Swingers Pad.

    RE: Victory condition: Based on the map, I think culture will be difficult. Swingers Pad will be one legendary city. Our capital can be #2. If Mansa is nice enough to cottage Timbuktu, if could be #3. However, there are issues:

    - The map lacks great person farms. There is a so-so GP farm site to our west (plains banana, cow, wheat), but I don't see many other sites with even two decent food tiles. I suppose we could forgo my 2 cow/pig/iron site and join the pigs into a city with the corn. Other than that, I don't see many options. I think we are going to struggle to get enough artists to bombs.
    - This will even be worse if we need to run spies to get espionage points. They will pollute the pool and create Great Spies.
    - Without Mids, we will not get research benefit when running artists. Normally in culture attempts, this is not an issue as you turn off research after liberalism. However, we need to tech much deeper into the tech tree.
    - We have lots of war in front of us. Putting hammers into early units means delay in getting religions spread and cathedrals built.

    RE: Diplo. We will need to cultivate two friends to vote for us. I think Joao will be a military target which will also alienate Mansa. Hopefully Genghis takes Gandhi's religion, then we could cultivate the two of them. However, as Mansa and Joao are Genghis' neighbors, he will probably join the Jewish block. This would be problematic (but not insurmountable). We should pay careful attention to how this plays out.
     
  4. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I see your point but we still have a lot of recon to perform. Since we have Open Borders with Genghis for the time being, perhaps we should send Fembot to have a look. In many ways would prefer to kill off Genghis than Mansa?

    Also, notice the railroad track to the north of Mansa, don't suppose that it goes all the way around the map?

    edit - heard from CP, RL is absorbing him atm, so a change in roster:
    Roster revision:
    Mad Professor - UP
    The-Hawk - On Deck
    Cactus Pete
    Htadus
    leif
    zamint3
    Sengir
     
  5. zamint3

    zamint3 Emperor

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    You mean Goldmembers Galley? Did it come from the west? :confused:

    I'm working on the test save. :)
     
  6. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    It got killed by Goldmembers Galley (at least, it came from the east), but the screen message said is was a Viking Galley.
     
  7. zamint3

    zamint3 Emperor

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    Oh yeah - The Vikings have the Trading Post giving free Navigation I, they must have built another galley, the one in the city only had 2 movement points. :crazyeye:

    Did you see any other galley activity?
     
  8. zamint3

    zamint3 Emperor

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  9. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Nope, no other naval movement whatsoever.
     
  10. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Thanks muchly Z. I have just escaped and am available for a fair bit of CIV for the next few days. :woohoo: so as long as they don't find me and come to lock me up, I'll be fine... :mischief: :twitch:

    I'll have a look through the save sometime in the next few hours and I'll also play with the test file.
     
  11. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Just had a quick look at the save. Some questions for people to comment on:

    1. We are studying Aesthetics - I presume next is Literature, and Washington is going to go to the Great Library once the Library is finished?

    2. It looks like Mansa is about to spread Judaism in one of our cities. He is bound to ask us to adopt it - do we want to do that? If our victory attempt is going to be anything to do with diplomatic, the answer to this question is critical.

    3. A settler is cooking, which is great. What is the preferred settling spot? Are we planning to go north to the iron spot, or west to the wheat/dye/cow spot?

    4. The earlier-than-expected axe in fish city can go with the settler when it is finished. Is any further protection necessary. Somebody mentioned a chariot at some stage - is Genghis still as likely a problem as he was earlier?

    5. Is there any more discussion necessary on the victory type before I play the turn set? [You know I prefer to know what we're aiming at earlier rather than later....!]

    Looking forward to some discussion. I will look more into details yet, and play around with Z's test save as well meanwhile.
     
  12. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Yes. :)

    Both Mansa and Joao are Jewish, however, Gandhi is Buddhist and Genghis doesn't have a religion. Seems like it would be OK as long a Genghis doesn't find religion, unless it is Judaism. :mischief:

    Looks like north first to me, get that Iron under control. Shouldn't we settle so that we keep the corn in the bfc?

    Although there is also Iron to the SW.

    Htadus suggested a Chariot with the Axe.

    If you send the Axe, should probably get another underway in case Goldmember comes calling via water.

    I heard Space and Diplo, either way we have to get a research machine going. Culture, I'm not so sure of.

    So to answer your question, I have no idea. :crazyeye:

    I'm a little slow, but just noticed Great Wall to the SW and Dr. Evil has the Great Wall.
    Where the heck is Gandhi?

    edit - sometime soon, we should probably build a Warrior quick to watch the railroad to the east for Genghis. He is a sneaking sob... :scan:
     
  13. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Genghis will find religion. I can see an Indian Hindu missionary in Mali too. Sooner or later either Mansa or Gandhi is going to send a missionary to visit him, guaranteed. Both those guys work hard to spread their religion normally, so there's pretty much no chance that Genghis will remain religion free.
     
  14. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    The only way Genghis will find religion at this point is from us or Joao as he only has Open Borers with those civs, and Dr. Evil, of course.

    edit - so his chances of becoming Jewish as better then average, imho.
     
  15. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    I figure he's got to be in the fog to the far west...

    Right.

    Yes, open borders do make a difference to missionaries....:D So unless he suddenly opens up his borders to Gandhi, he's more likely to become Jewish. For now. Adopting Judaism might be a good move then...
     
  16. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Probably, but never trust a mapmaker... :groucho:


    That is kind of my thinking at the moment. Just not sure I like the turn of anarchy, but better relations will be good.

    The only other question is whether we intend to attack Joao anytime soon, would hate to have a fight the brothers penalty. Although that happens if the city has religion, whether or not you adopt it, correct?
     
  17. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Correct. Any city with the official religion of the attacked party will suffer an unhappy penalty for fighting "brothers in the faith" whether you adopt that religion as official religion or not.

    By the way leif, I have now seen where you got that Einstien quote in your signature... :groucho:
     
  18. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    I've run through a few turns in Z's test save a couple of times. I notice the following things:

    * Genghis settles aggressively southwards making ideal settling spots for the northern iron unavailable.

    * The instant we get Aesthetics, our Portuguese friend demands it in tribute and if I refuse he immediately begins preparing for war

    * It is possible to trade quite extensively with Mansa and Gandhi for techs and since Mysticism and Polytheism are on the way to Literature, this actually speeds up our completion of the Great Library. We can also continue trading with them for the likes of Monotheism, Priesthood and even Monarchy after that if we want to.

    So I have some questions for those who feel they want to help me arrive at my own solution:

    1. Is settling in a less than ideal spot to the north to get the iron still acceptable? That is, we'd be settling near the iron,with river grassland tiles in the fat cross but no other resources than the iron. Of course I'd choose the best spot, but my choices were limited in the test save.

    2. How far do we want to go in giving techs to Gandhi and Mansa? It seems good to speed up the Great Library by trading for Mysticism and Polytheism, but how far should we go past that?

    3. How much do we want to avoid war with Portugal (or anyone else who demands tribute)? Are we willing to hand out Aesthetics as tribute?

    Any further responses to my earlier questions above are also welcome.

    Edit: I also notice that the Malian Jewish missionary just turns around and heads back to Mali in the test as well, but I can't see that happening in the real game.
     
  19. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    I recommend that 1 worker(at least) is send out to build roads toward the decided city site now.

    In general I am a proponent of rexing.
     
  20. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Yes, I was thinking of using one chop near Pig City to speed up the settler, particularly since there's a chance Genghis might be eyeing the same spots north of our mountains. In the test I played I sent a couple of workers out to road and then build the iron mine so that the iron was connected very soon after the city was settled. I could try it with the whip instead of a chop though.
     

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