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SGOTM 18 - Xteam

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    I also think we should be able to build a monument asap. We should learn Myst ourselves right now instead of trading a 400+ beaker tech for a 60 or something tech.
     
  2. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Yes, though if we were willing to make MP's a bit more expensive, we could take hunting with Mysticism as well... If we did that we could then trade also for archery and get very good MP's at only slightly more hammers.

    I like using the whip on the settler rather than a chop - gets it out slightly quicker and saves the forest for something else later, and Pig City is not short on food.

    Libraries also get us culture. Expensive to build just for culture of course, but since we'll be needing them anyway, they may be an option for that - though since we need mysticism anyway to get literature this is pretty much irrelevant.

    Any other comments that people want to make will be gratefully received, then I'll put together a plan with some details for comment before playing.
     
  3. The-Hawk

    The-Hawk Old Original Geezer

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    Two sets of questions:



     
  4. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Thanks for the input Hawk.

    There is also iron to the west, but it's further away and obviously therefore harder to connect and more expensive to maintain the city. on the other hand, building a road towards that gap NW of Pig City serves either western or northern goals.

    On the matter of Judaism, I'm seeing a steady trend towards accepting, and I myself would do this if I didn't have other input. Looks like that might be the way I will go unless someone can come up with a good reason why not that we haven't thought of yet.

    This fairly well matches my own thinking. In order to win the game we just need to get our noses over the line 1 millimetre in front of the AI and if that is a few turns earlier because we were willing to trade, then that's better since we will finish ahead of more of the other teams that way.

    Any other comments will be most welcome. I will probably put together a more detailed plan and post it in about nine or ten hours from this post and then leave some time for people to pick it apart before I play.
     
  5. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    Are we allowed to use the gifting back cities?

    Or is that an exploit now?

    Oh MP. This is the best time to use the whip for settlers and workers.
     
  6. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Here is some details to the plan for the turnset. My purpose for posting this is to get input into refinements before playing, so don't hold back. If you don't like something, say so, say why and if that makes sense to me and others, I'll change it, and I won't be offended. :)

    City builds
    Washington: Finish library -> MP -> Great Library
    Fish City: Another axe -> Lighthouse -> finish that galley that has been started before decay sets in
    Pig City: Finish settler (whip) -> chariot (to go north) -> MP -> library(?)

    Workers
    2 workers road to new city then build iron mine once settled
    Other worker cottage near Pig city then mine north of Washington (beef up hammers for building GL)

    General
    Will aim to settle city to the north near iron, hopefully getting also the corn, but that may depend on Genghis. If no decent sites are left by the time the settler gets there I will pause for opinions.
    Scout will keep pushing back the fog as much as possible
    MP’s are for an extra happy – the happy limits are coming!
    Exactly which MP’s are built will depend on which techs have been received in trading
    I’ll send the warrior in Fish city to watch the eastern Railway once the next axe is built
    If Mansa asks us to convert to Judaism, I will do it
    If someone asks for tribute, I will pay it

    Techs
    We want the GL ASAP so it's a literature beeline after Aesthetics.
    After literature we might go for Construction (I'm thinking cats to go with what we might build with our iron for eventual war once the rexing is done)

    Trading
    I like the idea of trading for mysticism to speed up the Great library and hunting might come with it at the same time – if we do receive hunting, I’d want archery as well because hunting takes away our cheap warriors, and if we’re going to put a few more hammers into MP’s I’d rather build archers than spears.

    I'm thinking I might start playing in about 23 hours from the time of this post unless it is clear that more discussion is needed to resolve something. I will be monitoring regularly for comments and responding as necessary.
     
  7. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Plan looks good to me.

    Depending on timing, we might want to grow Washington now, and build up to a 2pop-whip on the Lib, then switch to MPs, switching back to Lib and whip 1t before Literature is done.

    There's a pre-chopped near pig-city, you might want to use that, but we can hold on to it for now as well. I'd prefer to see another settler/worker out of PigCity before the library (though that depends on how fast the lands fill up of course).
     
  8. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    :yup:

    Agree with this, whip overflow into GL sounds good to me. Unless we need the Library to speed up tech rate to get Great Library started sooner? Then could whip something else... :mischief:

    Would like to get the three cities discussed settled asap. Use that whip! :)

    On tech trading, if you should get Hunting, do not think it would be good to delay Lit for Archery.
     
  9. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    An extra unhappy face might slow the GL production later, but if the whip overflow more than compensates, that will be worth considering. I'll have a look at that, see how it works.

    There's a thought. We are probably a worker short at the moment, and Pig City has good food levels. Another worker could be produced with minimum pain. I'll see how I can best fit it in. I was hoping to save the forests for something else later though. Let me look at it.

    I agree. When I wrote that about archery as well I was thinking to check if there were decent trading possibilities for it, not taking turns out to study it ourselves. Wishful thinking if you like, but I'll have my eyes open for it. I was also fishing for comments concerning taking hunting with a trade and the implications. Personally, I'm for getting it and taking the risk that archery might not be easily available, but if someone can convince me otherwise, I'm listening.
     
  10. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Do we need Hunting? It is a 1-turn research tech at this point?

    Unless we're going to encompass the Furs up north within our city boundaries, but wouldn't that miss Corn? :eek:

    edit -
    A haka on the beach in the cool, 5-degree Celsius, weather here. :brrrrrrr:

    Good Luck. :thumbsup:

    edit2 - @MP - If you figured out where the quote in my sig comes from, you have been playing some Civ5?
     
  11. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    I'm going to start playing shortly.

    Regarding getting some whip overflow to start the GL in Washington, in the test I can do it by whipping the MP for one population and getting about 20 hammer overflow which gets the GL done a turn earlier despite the extra unhappy.

    This is with trading for both Mysticism and Polytheism rather than studying them ourselves though. If we study them ourselves, the GL is put back the study time for those two techs together. I'll see how the real game goes... :shifty:

    I hope Genghis and Joao are less aggressive in their settling towards us in the real game. All the marked spots in the save file are unavailable by the time we can get to them in the test as these guys settle straight at us... :rolleyes:

    I think I can get some monuments built, and I'll see about whipping up another settler in Pig City, but that will take a little juggling with population regrowth and unhappy faces in between coming up with some MP's for another happy face.

    Anyhow - off I go. Starting in a few minutes.
     
  12. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  13. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Here's my notes from the turn set:

    I open the file, it’s 1840BC
    I tell the workers to get moving, and move the axe in Fish City on his journey NW

    IBT
    Judaism spreads in Pig City
    Mansa immediately asks us to convert, I agree, we get one turn of anarchy

    T1 1800BC
    Get Mysticism and Hunting off Gandhi for Maths
    Result is +1 for a good deal, but he’s still annoyed – we’re the wrong religion for him now…

    T2 1760BC
    Whip settler in Pig city for 2 population

    T3 1720BC
    Put whip overflow into another settler in Pig City
    Another Jewish missionary is running around our territory

    IBT
    Mansa and Genghis both settle cities somewhere
    We get Aesthetics, start on Literature beeline which at the moment starts at Polytheism since we already have mysticism

    T4 1680BC
    Buddhist missionaries sighted coming our way (here we go…)
    Get Polytheism and Archery from Mansa for Aesthetics
    We start studying Literature
    Result is +1 for the deal and because we are the right religion in addition, he’s now pleased at us
    I see a Mongolian archer on a hill NW of the northern corn – is that a sign that a settler’s coming? Ours has a fair walk yet. :eek:
    Change to Monument in Pig City so it grows. Can whip the settler later when the population is back
    Get Priesthood and Monotheism off Gandhi for Aesthetics. No further diplo bonus – still just +1

    IBT
    Judaism spreads in Washington

    T5 1640BC
    The Mongolian archer has disappeared again – a good sign :D
    Now that Washington has Judaism and we have Monotheism, we have the option of adopting Org Religion. Another turn of anarchy. Hmm. :think: But it will be significant extra hammers for the GL. I do it.

    IBT
    Mansa gets a great merchant!! (yikes! Where from???) :confused:
    Two Indian Buddhist missionaries move to our side of the mountains

    T6 1600BC
    Just moving units around. Spotted the edge of Gandhi’s culture in the NW of the map. The railroad around the edge seems to go all the way with a couple of breaks in it.
    Joao is now thinking about war. He’s annoyed at Gandhi and only cautious at us. There’s some chance we are not the target… :please:

    T7 1560BC
    New York is settled within reach of corn, fur and iron north of the mountains. No sign of Mongolian settlement like in the test thankfully.

    IBT
    Gandhi gets Monarchy

    T8 1520BC
    Dr. Evil is thinking of war again – and we’re the obvious target. And he has open borders with Joao… :twitch:

    IBT
    Joao and Gandhi both settle cities somewhere

    T9 1480BC
    Moving and working

    IBT
    Mansa now also has monarchy

    T10 1440BC
    Found another Goldmember city in the far SW corner of the map, see a settler and an axe heading off. He’ll have a third city in a turn or two. Scout can’t do much about them!

    IBT
    Mansa adopts hereditary rule, Gandhi is the worst enemy of Genghis ;)

    T11 1400BC
    Pig City has reached size 4 again, but the monument has only one turn left to finish so I’ll let it finish before returning to the settler
    One of the Indian Buddhist missionaries spread Buddhism in Fish City, and the other failed in his bid to spread it in Washington.

    IBT
    We get Literature, start Construction

    T12 1360BC
    Whip axe for one pop in Washington settling up overflow to start GL – this happened a turn later than planned. Can’t figure out where that happened. Anarchy might have messed it up.

    IBT
    Goldmember founds Holmguard
    Genghis converts to Christianity – Rats!! :mad:

    T13 1320BC
    GL Currently showing 11 turns to complete, but in two turns Washington will grow and we can add a PH mine to the mix to shorten it quite a bit.
    The Settler is ready to whip in Pig City this turn if we want
    I was sending a worker to extend the road westwards for another city to be settled where we marked, but I see that Joao has got there first. I see the edge of Portuguese culture there. We're going to have to rethink settling strategy there.
    New York can whip that monument when it grows in a couple of turns – that would be a good idea so that we get the iron within the fat cross ASAP. We might need it since both Joao and Dr Evil are preparing for war and we are bound to be the target of at least Dr Evil, and in addition, Genghis has gone and got himself the wrong religion. Time to sharpen our swords perhaps? Um. Time to make sure we can build some swords? At least I got an extra axe out of Washington…

    I'm off to upload the save to central. I think my turnset is done, the GL is on the way, as is construction and now we need to think some military thoughts perhaps?
     
  14. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Here's a link to the save at Central:

    http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG018_BC1320_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

    Here's the log the server gave me:
    Spoiler :

    Here is your Session Turn Log from 1840 BC to 1320 BC:

    Turn 54, 1840 BC: Judaism has spread in Pig City.

    Turn 55, 1800 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
    Turn 55, 1800 BC: Austin Powers converts to Judaism!
    Turn 55, 1800 BC: You have discovered Mysticism!
    Turn 55, 1800 BC: You have discovered Hunting!
    Turn 55, 1800 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

    Turn 57, 1720 BC: You have discovered Aesthetics!
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Christianity has been founded in a distant land!

    Turn 58, 1680 BC: You have discovered Polytheism!
    Turn 58, 1680 BC: You have discovered Archery!
    Turn 58, 1680 BC: You have discovered Priesthood!
    Turn 58, 1680 BC: You have discovered Monotheism!
    Turn 58, 1680 BC: You have trained a Axeman in Fish City. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
    Turn 58, 1680 BC: Judaism has spread in Washington.

    Turn 59, 1640 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
    Turn 59, 1640 BC: Austin Powers adopts Organized Religion!
    Turn 59, 1640 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
    Turn 59, 1640 BC: Jacques Cartier (Great Merchant) has been born in Djenne (Mansa Musa)!

    Turn 61, 1560 BC: New York has been founded.
    Turn 61, 1560 BC: You have constructed a Library in Washington. Work has now begun on a Archer.

    Turn 62, 1520 BC: You have constructed a Lighthouse in Fish City. Work has now begun on a Galley.
    Turn 62, 1520 BC: Gandhi adopts Hereditary Rule!

    Turn 63, 1480 BC: Buddhism has spread in Fish City.

    Turn 64, 1440 BC: Mansa Musa adopts Hereditary Rule!

    Turn 65, 1400 BC: Fish City has grown to size 5.
    Turn 65, 1400 BC: Fish City has become unhappy.
    Turn 65, 1400 BC: Pig City has grown to size 4.
    Turn 65, 1400 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Genghis Khan.
    Turn 65, 1400 BC: You have discovered Literature!
    Turn 65, 1400 BC: You have constructed a Monument in Pig City. Work has now begun on a Settler.
    Turn 65, 1400 BC: Genghis Khan has founded Old Sarai in a distant land.

    Turn 66, 1360 BC: Washington can hurry Axeman for 1⇴ with 21ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
    Turn 66, 1360 BC: The borders of Pig City are about to expand.
    Turn 66, 1360 BC: Genghis Khan will trade Deer
    Turn 66, 1360 BC: You have trained a Axeman in Washington. Work has now begun on The Great Library.
    Turn 66, 1360 BC: The borders of Pig City have expanded!
    Turn 66, 1360 BC: Genghis Khan converts to Christianity!
    Turn 66, 1360 BC: Goldmember has founded Holmgård.

    Turn 67, 1320 BC: Pig City can hurry Settler for 2⇴ with 14ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
    Turn 67, 1320 BC: Goldmember is the worst enemy of Genghis Khan.
    Turn 67, 1320 BC: Genghis Khan won't trade Deer
     
  15. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    OK - here is the BUFFY log for anyone who is interested in wading through it:

    Spoiler :


    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 54/500 (1840 BC) [19-Sep-2013 20:35:55]
    Fish City begins: Axeman (5 turns)
    Fish City begins: Lighthouse (4 turns)
    Fish City begins: Galley (6 turns)
    90% Research: 34 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    10% Gold: -3 per turn, 2 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Washington grows to size 4

    Other Player Actions:
    Judaism has spread: Pig City

    Turn 55/500 (1800 BC) [19-Sep-2013 20:37:35]
    Diplomacy (Religion Request): Mansa Musa (Mali) asks Austin Powers (Swinger) to convert to Judaism; Austin Powers AGREES.
    Tech traded to Gandhi (India): Mathematics
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Mysticism
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Hunting
    80% Research: 0 per turn
    0% Espionage: 0 per turn
    20% Gold: 0 per turn, 3 in the bank

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    State Religion Change: Austin Powers (Swinger) from 'no State Religion' to 'Judaism'

    Turn 56/500 (1760 BC) [19-Sep-2013 20:42:02]
    80% Research: 32 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    20% Gold: 3 per turn, 3 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Pig City
    Pig City finishes: Settler

    Turn 57/500 (1720 BC) [19-Sep-2013 20:44:14]
    Pig City begins: Settler (10 turns)
    100% Research: 41 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -5 per turn, 6 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Tech research finished: Aesthetics

    Other Player Actions:
    Christianity founded in a distant land

    Turn 58/500 (1680 BC) [19-Sep-2013 20:46:42]
    Research begun: Polytheism (3 Turns)
    Research begun: Literature (3 Turns)
    Tech traded to Mansa Musa (Mali): Aesthetics
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Polytheism
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Archery
    A Cottage was built near Pig City
    Pig City begins: Monument (8 turns)
    Tech traded to Gandhi (India): Aesthetics
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Priesthood
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Monotheism
    90% Research: 36 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    10% Gold: -1 per turn, 1 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Fish City finishes: Axeman

    Other Player Actions:
    Judaism has spread: Washington
    Attitude Change: Mansa Musa (Mali) towards Austin Powers (Swinger), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) [19-Sep-2013 20:55:47]
    90% Research: 0 per turn
    0% Espionage: 0 per turn
    10% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Whip anger has decreased in Fish City

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Joao II (Portugal), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
    Civics Change: Austin Powers(Swinger) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

    Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) [19-Sep-2013 21:00:02]
    80% Research: 32 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    20% Gold: 1 per turn, 0 in the bank

    Turn 61/500 (1560 BC) [19-Sep-2013 21:05:27]
    New York founded
    New York begins: Monument (30 turns)
    Washington begins: Archer (3 turns)
    80% Research: 36 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    20% Gold: 0 per turn, 1 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Washington finishes: Library
    A Hamlet was built near Fish City
    Fish City grows to size 4
    Pig City grows to size 3

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Joao II (Portugal) towards Dr Evil (Evil), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    Turn 62/500 (1520 BC) [19-Sep-2013 21:09:57]
    80% Research: 45 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    20% Gold: 0 per turn, 1 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Washington grows to size 5
    Fish City finishes: Lighthouse
    A Village was built near Fish City

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Austin Powers (Swinger), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
    Civics Change: Gandhi(India) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

    Turn 63/500 (1480 BC) [19-Sep-2013 21:13:40]
    80% Research: 47 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    20% Gold: 0 per turn, 1 in the bank

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    Buddhism has spread: Fish City

    Turn 64/500 (1440 BC) [19-Sep-2013 21:16:33]
    A Mine was built near Washington
    80% Research: 47 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    20% Gold: 0 per turn, 1 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Washington finishes: Archer
    Fish City grows to size 5
    Pig City grows to size 4

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Austin Powers (Swinger), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
    Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

    Turn 65/500 (1400 BC) [19-Sep-2013 21:20:09]
    Washington begins: Axeman (4 turns)
    80% Research: 47 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    20% Gold: 0 per turn, 1 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Tech research finished: Literature
    Pig City finishes: Monument

    Turn 66/500 (1360 BC) [19-Sep-2013 21:26:17]
    Research begun: Construction (10 Turns)
    Washington begins: The Great Library (13 turns)
    80% Research: 46 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    20% Gold: 0 per turn, 1 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Washington
    Whip anger has decreased in Pig City
    Washington finishes: Axeman
    Pig City's borders expand

    Other Player Actions:
    State Religion Change: Genghis Khan (Mongolia) from 'no State Religion' to 'Christianity'
    Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Austin Powers (Swinger), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
    Attitude Change: Mansa Musa (Mali) towards Genghis Khan (Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'


    This is the right one - at first I posted here the BUFFY log from the several test games I played earlier. Oops. But this one is the real game!
     
  16. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    :thumbsup: MP, glad you got our northern city built. :goodjob:

    Looks like Joao settled adjacent to our chosen city site to the west. Perhaps war drums are beating in the distance? :backstab:

    Roster:
    The-Hawk - UP
    Cactus Pete - On Deck
    Htadus
    leif
    zamint3
    Sengir
    Mad Professor


    Looks like some difficult decisions coming up on where to settle and whether war is in the winds. May have to settle NW to protect our access to our northern city?

    Looks like that railroad track runs all the way around the border?
     
  17. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Nice job, MP.

    Looked at the save and have a couple of quick minor suggestions: Switch Pig City to a barracks and grow; have worker2 chop a forest on a hill in Pig City into the settler and then mine the hill.

    I'm going out of town and out of contact for three days.
     
  18. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    The one thing we have to remember with this one is that the Settler will start to decay in about 4 turns (I think it was 4...) since it's already been there a little while. So ideally we need to find some way to complete production with a maximum of 4 turns not being produced.
     
  19. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    Nice job MP.
     
  20. zamint3

    zamint3 Emperor

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    When at war you are only allowed to gift cities to that Civ in a peace deal. ;)

    The BUFFY log is very helpful when updating the test save. :)

    We need workers asap!

    Let's trade for Monarchy.

    Let's prepare for war, we need Joao's land. :ar15:
     

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