SGOTM 19 - Phoenix Rising

Has anyone actually proved any of these corps can fail??? I have been unable to prove this in testing.

All references to failure that i have found involved another corp already in the city. Up to this point there is no evidence that a corp spread can fail in a city with no corp already present.
 
With 8 resources connected Sushi will provide 4F per turn once it is spread to a city. We will also need less food to grow after whipping cities down.

Secret will grow in 2T and it will be 26/46F. I assume we will pick up the grass mine at S13 for +9F surplus. 3 more turns for Medicine and it will already be at S14 with 30/48F stored. It will then get Sushi for another +4F and the first exec will be built on OF + base hammers so no whips there. We can whip from 14>11 lowering our food needed for growth from 48 to 42. We will probably get immediate regrowth back to S12. We can then whip 12>9, 9>6, and 6>3 and there will probably even be more regrowth in there somewhere.

We can get 5 execs out of Secret np. 1 with pure hammers and then 4 whips. They could even be 5 consecutive turns if necessary.

Lali only needs 17F. It won't have a corp for 7? turns? Just dropping the PH mine for a 2F tile would almost get us there. A farm would do it easily though i don't think we can get one built. If it doesn't need to build it's exec on the first turn it has the corp the extra 4F from 1T of Sushi would get it to S8.

How about this? Gondar picks up grass mine, gives forge to Secret. Secret picks up that forge and gives another forge to Lali. Lali picks up 2F forge instead of working 0F PH mine. That will get us close enough on food over 6-7T that we can pick up the rest somehow. Drop grass mine for plain 2F grass tile for a few turns if we really have to. Almost anything is preferable to a rush buy there.

If we can't manage to grow Lali to S8 we should put a forge there. I really think we can grow it though.
 
We can get 5 execs out of Secret np. 1 with pure hammers and then 4 whips. They could even be 5 consecutive turns if necessary.
In that case, here's an update:

Exe 1 Exe 2 Exe 3 Exe 4 Exe 5
T1 Secret -Dye - - - -
T2 Secret -Gondar Dye -BBQ - - -
T3 Secret -Yeha Dye -Lali Gondar -Ankara BBQ -Thess -
T4 Ankara -Edirne Yeha -(Madrid) Thess -Nople Secret -(Cow) BBQ -Gyro
T5 Edirne -Istanbul (Yeha)-Madrid Secret -(North Wheat) (Secret)-Cow Nople -Oasis
T6 Madrid -New Augsburg Istanbul -(Damascus) (Secret)-North Wheat Gyro -(Arctic crab) Ankara -Santander
T7 Istanbul -(South Crab) (Istanbul)-Damascus North Wheat -(Arctic Fish) (Gyro)-Arctic crab New Augsburg -(Arctic Clam)
T8 (Istanbul)-South Crab Cow -Horse (North Wheat)-Arctic Fish Oasis -Trump (New Augsburg)-Arctic Clam
T9 Trump -Sugar Horse -Sheep Madrid -Valencia Fish Damascus -New Mainz BBQ -Golden

No need to grow LaLi (Secret handles Cow) and only one exec needed from Gondar (Secret handles N.Wheat as well).
 
N. Wheat can get 2 execs without rush buy, could we not build 2 here instead of rush buy in Gyro?

I still do not see the advantage of Dye first, there are some really avoidable rush buys here.
Like Madrid could feed Arctic clam instead of Augsburg with 2 whips.
 
The fewer buys we need the better. N Wheat could do both execs for the northern cities.

Yep Madrid doing 2 whips is much better. Madrid can easily do 3 whips.

Oasis for Trump?? It is still size 7? Might need to rethink that one??
 
It would help if we could work out how many rush buy this plan includes and how to try to reach none if possible.

I am not against Gondar first if it reduces rush buys.
 
It would help if we could work out how many rush buy this plan includes and how to try to reach none if possible.

I am not against Gondar first if it reduces rush buys.

Reaching none is impossible if we want to spread the corp in 9 turns. Yeha feeds Madrid, and its only size 3. No way it can grow to size 8 in 7 turns or so. And no other city can feed Madrid in 2 turns.

And Gyro can feed the fish ice city in 1 turn with only 5 tiles between them. North Wheat has 6 tiles in between them. So an extra turn or 270 gold? 270 gold to me is better.
 
I agree Yeha needs to be purchased. The Ice crabs is already down as 2 turns.

This is just an early plan at this stage. Debate should be about how to improve it.
 
The plan is just my suggestion and I expect it to be improved still. If you can make it better by going Gondar first then sure we will do that.

This corp spread prob really confuses me. The code says:

iSpreadProb += (((GC.getNumCorporationInfos() - pCity->getCorporationCount()) * (100 - iSpreadProb)) / GC.getNumCorporationInfos());

iSpreadProb = 40 for own cities, 20 for AI cities. (Value <iCorporationSpread>40</iCorporationSpread> in Civ4UnitInfos.xml, is cut in half for foreign cities)
GC.getNumCorporationInfos = Amount of corporations in existence
pCity->getCorporationCount = corps present in city

With only one corporation founded and no corp in the city this makes:

40+(((1-0)*(100-40)/1) =
40+1*60/1 = 100

So far so good and this would confirm our findings. With one corp present in the city and 2 corps founded it would become 40+1*60/2 = 70, which also seems right according to my tests. (With 2 corps founded and no corp present it becomes 40+2*60/2=100, the amount of founded corps has no effect, only a corporation present in the city makes failure possible.

Now, this would be all good and seems to correlate with our findings, but... the code for missionaries spreading religion is exactly the same, yet it can somehow fail even if there is no religion present?? :confused:

Also, even though the probablility for foreign cities should be 80, I can't seem to fail that either. (Wrong, according to the equation it should be 100 for foreign cities as well without any other corp present.)
 
The only reason for a religion spread to fail is if a civic stopped it. I have never known a religion fail to spread with no current religion in a city.

In my test game I spread the corp to nearly all my cities with almost no fails. I had 20+ cities.
 
If missionaries can't fail with no previous religion then I'm pretty sure execs can't fail either. I thought mishes could fail, but might be wrong. Don't use them very much...
 
Lymond said that he has had corp spread fail for him. He would have to clarify if there was another corp in the particular city or what the situation was.

And I said ice fish, but it could be crab. Its the one almost due north of Gyro is the city I was refering to.
 
T1 Secret-Gondar - - - -
T2 Secret-Dye , Gondar-Ankara - - -
T3 Secret-Yeha , Dye-bbq , Gondar-(New Valencia) , Ankara-Edirne -
T4 Edirne-Istanbul , Gondar - (New Valencia) , bbq-Thess , Secret-(Cow) , Yeha-North Wheat
T5 Istanbul - (Damascus) , New Valencia -Madrid , Thess-Nople , Secret-(Cow) , North Wheat - Gyro
T6 Istanbul - (Damascus) , Madrid-Augsburg , Nople-Oasis , North Wheat -(Arctic crab) , Cow-Horse
T7 Damascus - New Mainz , Madrid - (Arctic Clam) , Horse - Trump , North Wheat - (Arctic Crab) , Secret - Lali
T8 Istanbul-(South Crab) , Madrid - (Arctic Clam) , Trump - Sheep , Edirne - Santander , North Wheat - (Arctic Fish)
T9 Istanbul - (South Crab) , Trump - Sugar , bbq - Fleece , North Wheat - (Arctic Fish)


I tried something too, unfort. without the nice table..
Not sure if i made a mistake, last turn has 1 spare

4 rush buys in Yeha, New Valenica, bbq for Fleece, N. Wheat or maybe we can do something here.
Gondar forge build
 
Where are you putting New valencia??? I don't get T4 on this basis.
Gondar to New valencia to madrid? How are you doing this???
 
I think either way there is 1 buy we can't avoid.

Yeha/ new valencia - madrid


Can North wheat afford 3 execs and still not buy??

I had BBQ going to Gyro. This would require a road.
 
If we need to rush buy a corp in North wheat, we might as well buy one in Gyro, which is closer to one of the ice resources (5 tiles vs 6.
 
N. Wheat builds 3 in my plan (1 with stored hammers, 1 whip) but gets a break and not bad re-growth potential and can grow now still..i guess we can avoid that last rush buy, so 3 total.
If we could grow bbq too (why i waited with Fleece until last turn), only 2 not avoidable rush buys (Yeha and Velencia)

edit: yep that would be easy..only 2 rush buys
 
Where is new Valenica? South of Madrid??? If it is there is no way that is less than 12 roads move.
 
An idea for Valencia resettle:
Spoiler :


Could be an early 1 turn guy (rush buy) into Madrid, only 5 tiles away.
Transported with the galley.

Possibly combined with Augsburg resettle, 1 turn from Madrid:
Spoiler :


Making this annoying far away clams look more friendly if we use Madrid earlier:
Spoiler :

drawings here for cities.

Galley for transport of exec from Gondar.
 
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