SGOTM 19 - Xteam

[Cactus Pete]

Like Hawk, I'm concerned with putting all our eggs in an 80%-likely basket.

Will make improvements as suggested and get another spy out by whipping in U with overflow going into a missionary.

No more units if possible.

Whip lib in Const when it grows again.

Follow Fred's short-term war plan.

Playing now . . .

 

[leif erikson]

Good Luck CP!

It is warm enough, finally, to do a Haka in a pair of shorts...

 

[Cactus Pete]

Appreciate the Haka.

Final Report:

T76 -- Adjust as per thread discussion

IBT -- Uneventful

T77 -- Find chariot and 2 archers in Nic and 4 archers in Adrian; advance on both cities; convert TROY; station spy

IBT -- No new defenders

T78 -- Continue advance; whip lib in Const and spy in U

IBT -- Asoka has CoL now but won't trade for peace; 3rd archer in Nic

T79 -- Advance and bombard

IBT -- H will trade CoL; Asoka will now also trade MC; KK will trade CoL; chariot in Nic takes worker bait

T80 -- Kill chariot and take Nic without losses (and can now get CoL from Asoka for peace, but better MC); move 2nd spy into TROY; get a GG (thinking in U); discover a potentially troublesome barb axe near Adrian

RL intervenes and have to stop and pass on. Would have liked to have taken Adrian, but shouldn't be too difficult from here, and it's not a bad time to pause, as tech options have shown up.

Most all forests around Const have been pre-chopped.

Did not get worker back when took Nic, so think the missing city is west of Nic and we could find it by trailing Asoka's archer on the forest W of Nic.

As I understand it, next player needs to use spy slider.

Save from Central: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG019_BC0875_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[leif erikson]

Nice work CP!

Lots of good stuff going on!

Roster:
Htadus- UP
Mad Professor - On Deck
leif
The-Hawk
Frederiksberg
Cactus Pete
fishystick

If Htadus or MP cannot take it at this time, I will take it next.

How does Asoka being willing to give CoL's change our strategy for stealing it? Seems to me we should take it as soon as we grab Adrianople? Do we want 10-turns of peace?

 

[The-Hawk]

Strong turnset. Appreciate CP'S and Fred's efforts!

 

[Cactus Pete]

:
How does Asoka being willing to give CoL's change our strategy for stealing it? Seems to me we should take it as soon as we grab Adrianople? Do we want 10-turns of peace?

We can get CoL from H via spy, so let's take MC from Asoka for peace.

 

[Frederiksberg]

It's not a given thing that we can get MC for peace.

And it looks like we have barely enough gold to finish Literature. Our economy is in even worse shape than before and we are spending more gold than we are producing. We need to bring some more workers back to the Hague-Amsterdam-Utrecht area. There is lots to do there. When the two newly captured cities come out of anarchy maintenance will go up even more.

I'm tempted to take the CoL for peace deal now. Perhapa Asoka will top it off with 30 gold. Let's get those Courthouses built. It looks like we are not certain to take Adrianople with the units we have available and certainly not if Asoka whips more defenders or the barb axe weakens one of our axes. Btw the deal may be off the table if we take the city because the AI is willing to give more for peace if a city is threatened.

The Gspy will take about 34 turns to slow grow. Can we wait that long for our first GPerson? With Nat. Epic we are talking ~15 turns. But correct that the risk of a GArtist is around 20%. We will also need to find an alternative site for Nat Epic and GLib if we slow grow. Perhaps Nicaea?

We are not desperate for MC and can steal it later. If we go for CoL for peace the spies should me moved away from Troy to prevent discovery.

 

[Cactus Pete]

It's not a given thing that we can get MC for peace. Don't have a feel for how this works in BtS, but if the odds are favorable (and he's wiling to offer the value of CoL plus 30 gold now before we have taken Adrian, so probably more than that now if he had it and perhaps much more after Adrian is captured) seems a shame to waste the opportunity to get CoL for just the cost of the spy points and then MC for free. Also, we could easily threaten Antioch pretty quickly.

And it looks like we have barely enough gold to finish Literature. We only got 50 gold for taking Nic, but I suspect we'll get about 100 for taking the older Adrian, and that's most of what CoL will cost in spy points. Our economy is in even worse shape than before and we are spending more gold than we are producing. A little mis-leading, as we're not building commerce. We need to bring some more workers back to the Hague-Amsterdam-Utrecht area. There is lots to do there. Concur -- cottaging and pre-chops around Const is pretty much complete. When the two newly captured cities come out of anarchy maintenance will go up even more. True. Hate to give up MC, though. Is testing realistic here?

I'm tempted to take the CoL for peace deal now. Perhapa Asoka will top it off with 30 gold. He will. Let's get those Courthouses built. It looks like we are not certain to take Adrianople with the units we have available and certainly not if Asoka whips more defenders or the barb axe weakens one of our axes. It could easily go the other way, which is why I moved both axes onto the forest -- that is, barb axe could move onto plains hill (we then move cats onto forest and delay advancing other units for a turn) and then barb attacks the city instead of us the following turn.

Btw the deal may be off the table if we take the city because the AI is willing to give more for peace if a city is threatened.

The Gspy will take about 34 turns to slow grow. Can we wait that long for our first GPerson? With Nat. Epic we are talking ~15 turns. But correct that the risk of a GArtist is around 20%. We will also need to find an alternative site for Nat Epic and GLib if we slow grow. Perhaps Nicaea? Can this decision wait until we are ready to complete research on Lit?

We are not desperate for MC and can steal it later. If we go for CoL for peace the spies should me moved away from Troy to prevent discovery.

From whom? Isn't that quite problematic? Wouldn't some other good tech likely also be available by the time we're in a position to do that?

BTW, next player may want to consider making a medic out of the spear in Nic and perhaps eventually building a chariot and using the GG to create a mobile super medic. Are we likely to do much more additional fighting?

 

[leif erikson]

BTW, next player may want to consider making a medic out of the spear in Nic and perhaps eventually building a chariot and using the GG to create a mobile super medic. Are we likely to do much more additional fighting?

Yeah, pretty sure we will.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Perhaps we should test how the barb axe is likely to act. If he moves to the plains hill will he always attack the city or might he attack our units on the cow tile or further north. And can our current units defeat 4 archers? The cats can't kill so all our remaining units including the spear must win to capture the city. No room for losses. Perhaps play 1-2 more turns before deciding if we want to take the peace deal or try to capture.

What I'm saying about the spies is that they can't be in Troy permanently because they will be discovered and destroyed. So we have to pull them out if there is no steal planned and then put them back later.

I think we need to plan ahead where we want Nat. Epic and GLib. They should be in the same city. Nicaea is a candidate because it has lots of food. Another one, but less food rich is Hague. And finally it could be Constantinople but then we can't slow grow the GSpy for 100% chance. If we go for Nicaea we want some workers pre-chopping there already now.

It's an open question if the spy economy is the best play in this game but it seems that we are already heading in that direction with excessive unit and maintenance cost that won't go away anytime soon. So why not try to make the best of it and continue our expansion.

Would be nice to have some more scouting done of the tundra areas and the barb cities to the north.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Perhaps we should test how the barb axe is likely to act. If he moves to the plains hill will he always attack the city or might he attack our units on the cow tile or further north. We don't have to have units on the cow tile. And can our current units defeat 4 archers? The cats can't kill so all our remaining units including the spear must win to capture the city. No room for losses. Could have one loss and take city next turn, especially if we only expend 1 cat on first attack, keeping one in reserve. Always valuable to test. Perhaps play 1-2 more turns before deciding if we want to take the peace deal or try to capture. Concur, but what do we do regarding slider for spy points?

What I'm saying about the spies is that they can't be in Troy permanently because they will be discovered and destroyed. So we have to pull them out if there is no steal planned and then put them back later. Isn't it highly unlikely that both will be outed within two turns?

It's an open question if the spy economy is the best play in this game but it seems that we are already heading in that direction with excessive unit and maintenance cost that won't go away anytime soon. So why not try to make the best of it and continue our expansion. Are you saying we should take more of Asoka's cities or go on to another AI?

Would be nice to have some more scouting done of the tundra areas and the barb cities to the north.

Strongly concur. I was frustrated by not finding good circumstances to get this done.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Had another look at the save.

I suggest we play one more turn to see what the barb axe does. There is very little that needs to be done:

Switch cities from building science to building wealth. This is always better when you have libraries.

MM Hague so that we don't work the plains tile (use coast or grassland)
MM Constantinople to use all major food tiles. They must be worked at all times no matter what.
Move the axe in Thessalonica southwest. We may need it to threaten Antioch and get a tech for peace if we capture Adrianople.
Set science slider to 0% for this turn. We need to have some gold for spy points.
Move archer in gold north to scout.

Leif, can you take the save and do this? Then we can see what the axe does and make a longer plan.

 

[leif erikson]

Made the recommended moves and advanced the turn.

The Barb Axe moves SE onto the grass tile SW of Adrianople, also south of our Axe stack on the forested grass hill.



edit - Asoka whipped another Archer in Adrianople.

Save attached.

 

[Cactus Pete]

What a classic good news, bad news report. Let's advance and see what the axe and Asoka does. Never seen 5 archers stay in a city, but perhaps in BtS.

 

[Mad Professor]

Nice work CP!

Lots of good stuff going on!

Roster:
Htadus- UP
Mad Professor - On Deck


If Htadus or MP cannot take it at this time, I will take it next.

I should not be this high up the roster. I have been lurking to keep up with events and barely managing. I won't be in a place to play a turn set any time in the next week or two. Sorry to be so absent.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Looks like our capture chances are small now. Like CP says the AI will sometimes play incredibly stupid and move out defenders so we could play one more turn advancing the spear and the axe. If no archers disappear we have to call it a day and make a peace deal since reinforcements are too far away.

We probably have to increase the spy slider to 10-20% for the next turn and then to 100% the turn after.

Looks to me like some workers are sleeping. Be careful not to forget any units. We need to keep a worker ready to chop near Constantinople. The moment we get CoL we should chop 1-2 forests into Courthouse and then 2-3 pop whip it next turn. Any delay to the GSpy is problematic.

We can start moving our forces to the western border near Antioch. Perhaps start a road towards Toku. It's probably better to attack him next and wait with the few remaining Byzantine cities. Asoka's research capability must be low by now and Toku will get to longbows before him. Unless we do something to stop it.

 

[leif erikson]

Looks like I've got it.

A couple of questions:
- It doesn't look as though Asoka will give us CoL's for peace.
Can still ask though...
Do we make the peace deal or move more units to threaten?

- If we cannot get CoL's though Asoka, then I assume the steal is on with H?

- Hague's borders are about to expand, getting Iron online a priority?

- We have a Great Prophet coming in 3-turns, what do we want to do with him? Golden Age or Shrine or ???

- Do we want to allocate a couple of Axes to go scouting to the north and south?

- Location of Great Library? Nicea has few to no hammer, do not know how we can build it there in a reasonable amount of time? Hague looks like a better choice for both GLibrary and National Epic? With the Sugar tile with a Plantation, that adds 4-more food to the city.

- Now that we have Horses, would like to build a Chariot and make it a supermedic with our Great General.

I should not be this high up the roster. I have been lurking to keep up with events and barely managing. I won't be in a place to play a turn set any time in the next week or two. Sorry to be so absent.

Sorry you have been so busy, miss your insights. Will make the appropriate adjustments. Thanks for letting us know.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Looks like I've got it.

A couple of questions:
- It doesn't look as though Asoka will give us CoL's for peace.
Can still ask though...
Do we make the peace deal or move more units to threaten?

Move spear and axe to cow tile and hope for a miracle in the IBT . We should also move the axe from Thessalonica towards Antioch

- If we cannot get CoL's though Asoka, then I assume the steal is on with H?

Yes, the steal is our backup plan. Set Spy slider to 20%. Next turn it goes up again to 100%.

- Hague's borders are about to expand, getting Iron online a priority?

Hooking iron should be done fairly soon.

- We have a Great Prophet coming in 3-turns, what do we want to do with him? Golden Age or Shrine or ???

Shrine for 10-11 gpt. GA and bulbing is weak due to small empire and stealing option for Theo.

- Do we want to allocate a couple of Axes to go scouting to the north and south?

I think the archer from Gold can scout the barb cities in relative safety. There should only be archers there. When we have CoL we can probably spare a spy to scout the south.

- Location of Great Library? Nicea has few to no hammer, do not know how we can build it there in a reasonable amount of time? Hague looks like a better choice for both GLibrary and National Epic? With the Sugar tile with a Plantation, that adds 4-more food to the city.

Hague is worth considering. We should farm the sugar tile unless we get Calendar very soon.

- Now that we have Horses, would like to build a Chariot and make it a supermedic with our Great General.

Sounds like a good idea.

I think it makes sense to play one turn and post fairly soon. It will be easier to plan knowing the outcome at Adrianople.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Asoka was willing to give me CoL and 30 gold for peace, leif. What did you say to him? BTW, at least ask for MC -- nothing to lose for trying.

If Asoka won't give us CoL, would argue against peace now. Think we should steal CoL and keep after Asoka until he will give MC.

 

[leif erikson]

I think it makes sense to play one turn and post fairly soon. It will be easier to plan knowing the outcome at Adrianople.

If I can get CoL's for peace, I should take it? Whether it is this turn or the next?

Point is, taking Adrianople is not in the cards for this turn?

edit - x-posted with CP.
Should we move Cats and other units from up north to the south then?