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SGOTM 19 - Xteam

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Feb 2, 2014.

  1. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    "Micro: Settler is whipped and granary finishes next turn using the overflow. 2nd worker is whipped as soon as the capital regrows from 2 to 4. Trying to build the worker earlier seems clearly suboptimal." Well, I got Oracle on T33 with the capital at size 7, so not too sub, but I'm good for you to go.
     
  2. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Deity

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    You have to count hammers and food in the bins to compare. The difference is not huge, but over time you can loose a lot of hammers by building workers and settlers instead of always whipping them. And finishing the granary is important to secure fast regrowth. In this game it's even more important to whip settlers because we have a 50% bonus that only applies to hammers not to food. So one food is worth ~3 hammers when whipping with a granary. That is 3 times more than when you build.

    I plan to play ~15 turns tonight, that is about 10 hours from now. Then post a save and an interim report so that we have the option to adjust our strategy depending on what our scout and warrior finds.
     
  3. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  4. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Deity

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    I have played 14 turns. The Oracle is already gone so that calls for a new discussion. Very lucky that we haven't wasted any beakers on the religious techs.
    We met Asoka of Byzantium and Tokugawa of Ethiopia. Other than that everything went according to plan. The >> SAVE<< is uploaded.

    EDIT: I put our spy points on Toku for now because Asoka is likely to be the first AI we attack. And be careful with the save. The worker hasn't moved yet because our plans may change now.

    Here is the autolog:

    Spoiler :
    Turn 0, 4000 BC: Amsterdam has been founded.
    Turn 0, 4000 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
    Turn 0, 4000 BC: Trumpster adopts Slavery!
    Turn 0, 4000 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

    Turn 5, 3800 BC: The borders of Amsterdam have expanded!

    Turn 8, 3680 BC: Buddhism has been founded in Constantinople!

    Turn 9, 3640 BC: Asoka converts to Buddhism!
    Turn 9, 3640 BC: Christianity has been founded in a distant land!
    Turn 9, 3640 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!

    Turn 11, 3560 BC: Taoism has been founded in a distant land!

    Turn 14, 3440 BC: Amsterdam can hurry Granary for 1&#8692; with 8&#8484; overflow and +1&#8676; for 10 turns.
     
  5. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  6. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Deity

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    My immediate thinking is to try Calendar -> Currency and test how long it takes. If we have a lot of workers ready when Calendar is discovered we might still have a decent date for Currency that should allow us to trade for Alpha.

    I think we should also test chopping Stonehenge as soon as we have Math. Haven't found any stone nearby so it might be too expensive. Let's see what the testing reveals.
     
  7. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  8. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Deity

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    Oracle was obviously rigged somehow. Don't think the remaining wonder dates will be much different from what testing shows.

    I made a partially correct test game. Only tiles near our capital have been updated. Feel free to improve it ;).

    Test Game
     

    Attached Files:

  9. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Yeah, would be nice to figure out what he did though.

    Looking at the info screens, population is not unreasonable nor is anything else I can find.
    Perhaps it was an Industrious civ whose capital was settled on Marble? :dunno:

    Hope you are correct about future wonder dates. :shifty:
     
  10. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Deity

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    Attached Files:

  11. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    :eek: Um. OK. Restart discussion! :D

    Wonder how he rigged that?
     
  12. The-Hawk

    The-Hawk Old Original Geezer

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    Oracle turn 9? :lol: I bet that will wreck a few teams' early testing!

    Now that we are back to the drawing board, I'll see if I can't pitch in a bit of testing as well. :)
     
  13. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    Fred, do you remember how many archers were defending the gray capital?

    I would like to recommend a worker and capital steal as our immediate plan. We get worker(s), a city, a good one at that and capture gold. I can not see anything bad about it. At this early 2 to 1 axes will do the job. Whip.
     
  14. The-Hawk

    The-Hawk Old Original Geezer

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    After a quick look at the real save, my thoughts were along the lines of Htadus. From what we can see, not too many decent city sites in our area. We are going to be competing with Asoka for land. He will probably grab the horses before us. Might want to be thinking about early war.

    If we decide to go peaceful, then I am more inclined to settle marble and pigs asap, then make a run at GLib before calendar. If we are whipping workers and settlers, we won't be able to work those calendar tiles right away.
     
  15. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  16. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Evil map maker.

    Just 2 inexperienced axes?

    Suggest worker move to chop forest SE of capital and then perhaps road that tile to get copper. Warrior to move back SE to uncover that critical area.

    Toku already has horses, so don't think he'll beeline for them.
     
  17. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    :lol: You have such a way with words Leif!!!!!!!! :D
     
  18. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Deity

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    Don't remember the number of archers. The AI starts with two on immortal so that's probably the number. The warrior can swing back and have a 2nd look on his way home and try to find out if Asoka has copper.

    I highly recommend that you test any ideas you might have. It's always good to have a "reality test".

    Mounting an axe rush is something to keep in mind with Asoka not too far away. I don't see any immediate need to hurry though. As long as the AI expands the cities will be defended by ~2 archers. And we need a stack of 5-6 axes (175-210 hammers) to be fairly sure to capture a city defended by two archers.

    I suggest we defer any chopping until we have Math. We will have it soon and we lack worker turns.

    My suggestion for a way forward is to whip settler next and settle 1W of pigs. The worker can road down there for immediate 2gpt trade. I still believe that all efforts should be towards strengthening the economy because expansion is so fast with the discount on settlers. So we need to balance with workers and have enough workers to do some cottaging. I'm now leaning towards Currency after Math. We will have around 5 cities before we are done researching it so it will come at a time where it's badly needed. And as shown in previous tests we can trade it for Alpha unlike most other tech options. 3rd city could be picking up the wet rice and the clam. The sugar tiles could be farmed.
     
  19. The-Hawk

    The-Hawk Old Original Geezer

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    I've been fooling around with this. The timing works well, can grow to 4, switch to settler, whip and settle on the turn the worker finishes the road. The granary comes a turn later with the overflow.

    Only concern I have... it is possible 1 SW of the pigs is a better site. There might be something nice under the FOW to the south. I wonder if we should defer the settler a turn or two and get a warrior out first to explore?

    I am still not convinced about Currency next. We can certainly whip 5 settlers pretty quickly, I just don't know where to send them. We have two additional sites to settle, then it gets sparse. I suppose we can build a city 1N of the gold, but I don't see a site for city 5. Depends on what we find to the south. If the lands down there are poor, we may well be heading for war to get city 5. In that case Currency can wait in favor of calendar or Glib.
     
  20. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    The gray capital is likely better than any city we can build, so let's plan to make it the fifth city.
     

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