Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 9, 2015.
Well, there is a majority of 4 votes for Izzy.
We want Music. This seems to be a good first choice since this affects a lot of builds. Getting Great Prophet is a problem. Maybe we want Sparta to generate our first GP. It is very problematic otherwise.
Edit: I don't like this one, for Izzy. Maybe we want to hear more.
Now I'd like to see Izzy#2, but we are so poor in this early stage.
Anyway, it's not very difficult to produce a GPriest with our Glorious Oracle and maybe a couple of temples.
It is not aligned with our earliest possible Astro.
Artist from Music is easy to do and Scientist afterwards, at least from Physics. I'd like to find more straightforward route to winning this one.
I meant no. 2 hint anyway, but mapmaker mistakenly gave us no. 1. Maybe a freebie since BSPollux made a mistake?
---joke removed because it might have violated the forum rules---
Yes, GPriest disables our Golden age, GA and GS put more stress on the GP plan. However, other tasks should have their difficulties. Let's see the other 2 tasks and then try to figure out the best compromise to balance.
What do women want? Everything!
At least it doesn't conflict with an AP win or military victory. Hmm
Good going! The GProphet is annoying. If this is the first task that can be completed in mapmaker's mind, then the others should be deep enough in the tech tree.
Pretty sure one of the objectives will be Sushi with X number of resources hehe.
I'm nervous too. Shaka is the most dangerous AI in the game in my opinion.
Impi's are amazing pillagers when no Axemen face them.
If he comes he'll target Sparta most likely and we should be able to defend it with Archers as long as he doesn't have Swordsmen.
Only cows will end up getting pillaged, which isn't a horrible loss.
With Currency, we have the option to end the war paying some gold.
We should also easily be able to get Alphabet once an AI gets it and turn off the war that way also.
Meeting Isabella is a huge boost to our odds of getting early Alphabet.
But in the end it's still only Immortal Shaka and we've got a scout out looking for him since we know he is coming.
I'd panic way more if it was Deity Shaka.
Our empire no longer revolves around Sparta now that Oracle is done.
And we aren't even sure he is coming for us yet.
Maybe he wants to beat up Willem who is only slightly stronger than us and is closer to Shaka?
Although, his nowarprob for Pleased is 90% and 40% for Cautious. Hmm
I can say that Shaka is the AI that will send 2 Impi and 2 Archers and an Axe to suicide half way around the world. He does that often. He is usually the least dangerous since his suicide rate prevents him from building a stack, unlike Monty or the most dangerous, Ragnar.
Archers should do. We missed Oracling CoL and spreading Confu to Willem...
Archery can be traded for.
Now that we have Currency and hint #1, does the indefatigable Doshin wish to play 3 more turns?
I sense the team wishes to build more gold up, scout a bit for invading armies and more AI, and see if any AI techs Alphabet.
Do we really want to buy Hint #2 and Hint #3 by turn 65?
If one of them involves building an early Wonder, it could be a big deal
With our gold gifts, Willem is closer to both Alphabet and CoL. Both could defend us. One with Archery and one with closed borders. So keep giving gold away.
Although Willem has only 2 cities. I'd make him a friend and tech whore.
Edit: That means that I'd like to gift him a city even moar.
Izzy is more demanding than predicted.
GArtist is possible without going to Music, if we start building up GArtist points in a city while in Caste, and then whip an Odeon and finish it towards the end of the game.
GProphet is doubly annoying if we plan to avoid Meditation and GScientist bulbs mean that we need 600+ .
It's all quite costly, given the tentative plan to bulb to Engineering.
With 3 hints, we will know the direction our game will take, and any additional hints can be secured by selling tech to Willem (with a risk that our money will disappear IBT) or by gifting Workers and then declaring war (we'd need to wipe out Willem to reclaim the Workers).
If Willem doesn't swallow our initial 50G gift, we might also want to research Alphabet ourselves. No AI on our continent have Writing, and if reaching Alpha will secure 225 + Archery + Iron Working (+ maybe Monarchy from Willem?) spending the beakers ourselves could be worthwhile.
I'd like to buy hint #2, as long as the Woodsman Warrior doesn't spy a couple of Impi on T62. I'm not sure about hint #3 (depends on Shaka and exploration mostly).
I can certainly play to T62. I'm also happy to play to T65 if it is trouble free, but if I spy Shaka's stack bearing our way, I won't have time to figure out the best way to defend Sparta (testing defender builds and composition, ways to distract Shaka, etc.), so someone else will need to take over.
edit: I'm happy to hand over immediately, too.
Hint #1 is so costly that I find hints very cheap.
I will repeat that Willem can be very good tech partner for us if this game is supposed to be a longer one.
Yep, good point. Killing him will also make Elizabeth a much weaker trading partner for us, since she won't trade anything until Shaka gets it (or she meets another AI).
Maybe Willem will build the GLH, though, or the Pyramids. He does have Sailing and Masonry.
Btw, should we keep the current city names or rename them for easier reference?
Athens = Athens
Sparta = Cash Cow
Corinth = Tiffany & Co.
Thebes = Furs 'n' Pearls
Fish Island... er... Fish Island?
This is Sparta, gems city, fur city, fish island
No doubts on defense abilities, just wondering if that's better than IW fighting with less pillage damages. Also, I don't think it's distance and bordering factor that matters most. If he decided to spare civs he's Cautious with at the beginning of his war routine, it's 100% that he's after us regardless of other factors (assuming there's nobody else around him he's annoyed at, which is a reasonable assumption).
Getting IW isn't sure at this point and even more so regarding Monarchy. Moreover, as there is no AI trade protection for Alphabet, it would be rather wasteful to research it on our own. However, not to speculate too much when we don't have to, we have a working spreadsheet that can determine how many civs have each of these techs before knowing Alphabet. I'll run the numbers to check it out.
With settler gifts (liberation for bringing him to friendly) and worker gifts we can make Willem very quick techer and get our hints in the process. However, if he builds Mids, I think we could use them better. GLH is weak enough to let him have it since tech partner is more powerful than GLH bonus until approx. late mid game. With this hint, I am even more convinced this one is supposed to be a bit longer game. Although we lose a lot with these quwstions, we can catch up more with the focused approach in a longer game. Gambles dont pay that well. I really like this concept with hints. Kudos to mapmakers again.
Without testing, I am pretty sure no more than cows are going to get pillaged. Shaka will suicide onto Sparta. Only very unlikely chariot/impi/nothingelse stack could go for a bit more pillage.
Separate names with a comma.