SGOTM 21 - Plastic Ducks

Kaitzilla · Mar 5, 2015

Turn 73 to Turn 80

Spoiler :

Turn 81 to Turn 88

Spoiler :

Bonus: Turn 89 to Turn 92
Grew to 6-pop on T89 in Athens thanks to Doshin's tip about :mad:

citizens not eating :food:

when build a settler/worker

Spoiler :

Rough Draft PPP, copy+paste the parts you like

Spoiler :

I'll try to double check the written micro tomorrow.
Attached the test game all the way up to Turn 92.

Duckweed · Mar 5, 2015

Did you produce the settler for the whale city from Sparta in the new test? One of the main reason why I like your previous test is that you let Corinth produce the settler instead, which strengthen the military productivity of Sparta.

Kaitzilla · Mar 5, 2015

Yes, the Whale+Fish settler was produced in Sparta this testing.
Corinth is really really good at making workers I've discovered.

I liked Settler from Corinth originally, but now I think having it come from Sparta is better.
Corinth is continuously producing things and doesn't just stagnate after making a Settler.
So I think it is worth Sparta falling 2 turns behind making a settler instead of worker.

Duckweed · Mar 5, 2015

Not stagnating on Worker/settler is a good reason. However, not a proper reason in Corinth when producing settler while it's not working on the Wheat tile (I believe that you let Athens take back the Wheat tile during those turns), therefore not much loss when the food is only 2F plus when working on 2 gems + a farm + a mine.

An extra worker from Corinth is not urgent. 1 worker could be be drawn from Corn site (2 workers left), this will only slow down the improvement of the 2nd riverside grassland.

Look at your T88 screenshot, it would be nice that not both Corinth and Athens are producing worker/Settler in the same time. It's better that when 1 city is producing a worker/settler, then the other city works on Wheat to grow.

Doshin · Mar 5, 2015

Thanks Kaitzilla.

The T92 pic is v. useful:

Kaitzilla said:
Spoiler :

Fish City is only going to slow down the war, right? Even Horse/Deer is difficult (but this will help with reinforcements). There are 6 Catapults that are built, or can be easily built, in this screenshot. And they could all invade Shaka by T101 at the v. latest.

In your screenshot, there are 3 Forests in Gem/Deer that need to be chopped between T92 and T100, and 3 Forests in Corn. Only 2 Workers are improving Deer/Gems and Corn. Can we chop all of these Forests by T100?

If we delay the Fish City, we gain ~12 more Worker turns because "Worker 2 (Thebes)" is not roading/prechopping/setting up Fish (which cannot contribute to the Shaka war).

Why don't we slow build a Worker before a Settler in Argos @ size 5 after the Library? Builds go: Library ---> Worker (4 turns) ----> Work Boat (1 turn) ---> Settler (1 turn, then whip). The Worker would be shipped to the mainland ASAP.

----

BTW, as a suggestion (which may or may not work), you could consider a 3-pop Settler whip in Athens to manage food/growth/unhappiness.

Using your T88 save as an example: if you 3-pop whip on T90, this will produce an earlier Settler and make better use of the Corn and Crab.

:mad:

citizens don't eat food while building Workers or Settlers, so you can use the food tiles to grow (on T88) and stagnate growth for fewer turns (just T89).

Thanks again for taking over.

Kaitzilla · Mar 5, 2015

Doshin said:
...

BTW, as a suggestion (which may or may not work), you could consider a 3-pop Settler whip in Athens to manage food/growth/unhappiness.

Using your T88 save as an example: if you 3-pop whip on T90, this will produce an earlier Settler and make better use of the Corn and Crab.

citizens don't eat food while building Workers or Settlers, so you can use the food tiles to grow (on T88) and stagnate growth for fewer turns (just T89).

Thanks again for taking over.

Ah, I forgot that :mad:

citizens don't eat :food:

while building Workers and Settlers. :thumbsup:

Ya, Athens got 3-pop whipped on Turn 90.
I'll try to address your and Duckweed's concerns once I have the micro complete.

Hopefully we can get this all worked out so everyone is happy.

We will want the Fish City [Settler] because we might need it to settle the iron spot, or we might need a city gift for Willem.
I'll take a look at what the test game looks like without Fish City.

**Edit**
Okay, since there is resistance to making a 2nd Worker in Corinth and any efforts at all towards founding Fish City, I'm gonna upload the test game at start of Turn 86.
Somebody else can start on turn 86 and focus on testing war, War, WAR! without a 7th worker (from Corinth) or a Fish City.
Maybe even skip the Odeon in capital for more catapult after 3-pop whip of settler, but I'm not sure if it will work.
Maybe even have Argos 2-pop whip a catapult at Size 6 and send it over with the Thebes catapult right away.

Spoiler :

Doshin · Mar 6, 2015

Kaitzilla said:
We will want the Fish ~~City~~ [Settler?] because we'll either need it to settle the iron spot, or we might need a city gift for Willem.
I'll take a look at what the test game looks like without Fish City, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Try what I suggested in Argos:

Library ---> Worker (4 turns @ size 5 = 14H*2, 16H*2 and use to pre-chop Fish City) ----> Work Boat (1 turn, to size 6) ---> Settler (1 turn, then 3-pop whip).

This delays Fish City by 4 turns, but gains ~12 Worker turns around Knossos and Mycenae, which I'd expect to lead to an earlier DOW. I haven't tested that far, but I am 90% sure this will be the case. There are also (approx.) one billion Forests around Utrecht that might be chopped once this city is captured, which will tie our hands further after the initial DOW.

Working an improved Fish for 4 more turns will offer +20F, which is a great gain. However, Fish City needs a Granary + LH + Warrior before it can help our wider empire. 120H = 16 Worker turns, ignoring any tile improvements (Farms/Cottages). And the city is also 20+ tiles from Shaka's core, which is a long trip for Catapults.

If delaying Fish City lets us chop more units, I'd hope that we can declare war sooner. And if we capture Utrecht 1 turn sooner, we work ~2 more tiles here for a turn; and then if we capture Amsterdam 1 turn sooner, we can work ~4 more tiles for a turn; and then if all this lets us snowball to capture the Zulu Core 1/2/3 turns sooner, we work X tiles 1/2/3 turns sooner... which quickly surpasses the +20F from the Fish.

The difficulty is to discover when we can start and continue warring ASAP without stopping, until we own all our continent.*

*

Spoiler :

If we need an urgent Iron Settler or Willem-Gift, we'd immediately stop building the Worker and grow to size 6.

---

Kaitzilla said:
Maybe even skip the Odeon in capital for more catapult after 3-pop whip of settler, but I'm not sure if it will work.

Spoiler :

Would be great if it works, bad if it means whipping twice in the cap.

Can look at the micro in the morning after others hopefully comment.

Night. :sleep:

Kaitzilla · Mar 6, 2015

Doshin said:
Try what I suggested in Argos:

Library ---> Worker (4 turns @ size 5 = 14H*2, 16H*2 and use to pre-chop Fish City) ----> Work Boat (1 turn, to size 6) ---> Settler (1 turn, then 3-pop whip).

This delays Fish City by 4 turns, but gains ~12 Worker turns around Knossos and Mycenae, which I'd expect to lead to an earlier DOW. I haven't tested that far, but I am 90% sure this will be the case. There are also (approx.) one billion Forests around Utrecht that might be chopped once this city is captured, which will tie our hands further after the initial DOW.

Working an improved Fish for 4 more turns will offer +20F, which is a great gain. However, Fish City needs a Granary + LH + Warrior before it can help our wider empire. 120H = 16 Worker turns, ignoring any tile improvements (Farms/Cottages). And the city is also 20+ tiles from Shaka's core, which is a long trip for Catapults.

If delaying Fish City lets us chop more units, I'd hope that we can declare war sooner. And if we capture Utrecht 1 turn sooner, we work ~2 more tiles here for a turn; and then if we capture Amsterdam 1 turn sooner, we can work ~4 more tiles for a turn; and then if all this lets us snowball to capture the Zulu Core 1/2/3 turns sooner, we work X tiles 1/2/3 turns sooner... which quickly surpasses the +20F from the Fish.

The difficulty is to discover when we can start and continue warring ASAP without stopping, until we own all our continent.*

*

Spoiler :

Apart from Willem's Palace.

If we need an urgent Iron Settler or Willem-Gift, we'd immediately stop building the Worker and grow to size 6.

---

Would be great if it works, bad if it means whipping twice in the cap.

Can look at the micro in the morning after others hopefully comment.

Night.

Slowly building a Worker for 4 turns doesn't really work in Argos.
Our Galley can take the worker and Settler up to create Fish City on T97, but the Thebes worker and catapult are stranded on Thebe's island until Turn 99, doing nothing for 4 turns. :sad:

On a positive note, bringing the corn roading worker to 1S1W of cow tile speeds up Horse+Deer+Whale City by 4 worker turns.
Two workers (the corn worker and Athens worker) are able to start on the horse pasture as soon as Horse+Deer City settles Turn 94.

Turn 89 test game, no 2nd worker from Corinth or fast Fish City
(Corinth whips an extra catapult instead)

Spoiler :

Building a catapult in Athens instead of an Odeon works ok, but Athens does have to be whipped again after the settler whip to get the odeon produced. (2 whips :sad:

)
It is not good to have a lot of :mad:

in the capital, but it might be ok for us to do.

The difficulty is to discover when we can start and continue warring ASAP without stopping, until we own all our continent.*

Very Difficult :cry:

@Team - Is it possible everyone is happy until the start of Turn 86 in the rough draft PPP?
If so, maybe Shakabrade could write down the Diplo and Stopping Condition portions of the PPP and play up to Turn 86.

shakabrade · Mar 6, 2015

Sorry. I was busy battling with wind yesterday. It was blowing 150km/h, and I had to tie everything I could and clear the fallen branches and mess since I am in Dalmatia at the moment.
Yamps would know how lovely the weather was.

I will be up all night if need be and play. PPP this afternoon.

Duckweed · Mar 6, 2015

Kaitzilla said:
Turn 89 test game, no 2nd worker from Corinth or fast Fish City
(Corinth whips an extra catapult instead)

Basically it's a distribution of hammer resource. Hammers are invested into military bases (new cities of Deer and Corn) and units. If we produce an extra cata from Corinth, why not let Sparta gain the ability? At least it's level 2 unit. I still prefer that the settler for Fish/Whale site come from Corinth. The difference of producing a settler or a worker in Sparta is 40H.

Kaitzilla · Mar 6, 2015

Duckweed said:
Basically it's a distribution of hammer resource. Hammers are invested into military bases (new cities of Deer and Corn) and units. If we produce an extra cata from Corinth, why not let Sparta gain the ability? At least it's level 2 unit. I still prefer that the settler for Fish/Whale site come from Corinth. The difference of producing a settler or a worker in Sparta is 40H.

Building the Settler in Corinth really slows Corinth down.
The city has to average 10 :hammers:

per turn for 4 turns.
Then there is the aftermath where it is 2-pop and only has half a food bin. :sad:

Consider:
Settler from Corinth
Turn 79 - Settler; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm
Turn 80 - Settler; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm
Turn 81 - Settler; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm
Turn 82 - Settler; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm
Turn 83 - Whip Settler; RiverGame,Gem
Turn 84 - Warrior; RiverGem,Gem
Turn 85 - Catapult; RiverGem,Gem
Turn 86 - Catapult; RiverGem,Gem
Turn 87 - Catapult; RiverGem,Gem
Turn 88 - Size 3
Turn 89 - Size 3
Turn 90 - Still Size 3

vs.

Worker from Corinth (Catapult instead of 2nd worker)
Turn 79 - Warrior; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm
Turn 80 - Worker; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm
Turn 81 - Whip Worker; RiverGem,Gem
Turn 82 - Warrior; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
Turn 84 - Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
Turn 84 - Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
Turn 85 - Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
Turn 86 - Whip Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,
Turn 87 - Another Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
Turn 88 - Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
Turn 89 - Size 4

Regrowth in Corinth with the Settler build can occur 3 turns earlier on Turn 85 by allowing Corinth to start the settler 1 turn later on Turn 80 instead of Turn 79.
But this slows down Fish+Whale City by 1 turn. :sad:

The capital also benefits from more steady access to RiverFarm with occasional access to Wheat.
Building the settler, Athens never gets RiverFarm or Wheat, then it gets them both for a long time.

Instead of a Settler, we could have a Worker+Warrior+Catapult.
Perhaps even an Odeon+Another Catapult if we are willing to keep whipping relentlessly. :whipped:

I'd say it is worth losing 1 promotion.

Doshin · Mar 6, 2015

I don't mind whipping the Settler in Sparta if necessary. I understand the argument that :hammers:

in Sparta are more important than Corinth now (basically a reverse of the earlier situation) but the Wheat usage in Athens/Sparta is very good with the original PPP, and reaching 40/100H in Corinth is very slow without OF.

2x Gems + city tile = 5HPT
A Grass farm adds +1HPT, a Grass Hill +2HPT, a Grass Wheat +4HPT.

So @ size 4, the Wheat would get tied up in a Settler build for at least 3 turns:

5H*3 + Wheat*3 + GH*3 =
15H + 12H + 6H = 33/100H in 3 turns.

On a 4th turn:

33H + 5H + GH + GF
= 33H +5H +2H +1H

= 41/100H

---

Maybe it's possible, but using the Wheat to build a Settler will slow Athens down in addition to Corinth.

Doshin · Mar 6, 2015

Kaitzilla said:
Rough Draft PPP, copy+paste the parts you like

Spoiler :

Techs
Turn 73 - 100% Construction
Turn 78 - 100% Aesthetics
Turn 80 - 50% Aesthetics (just enough slider to complete)
Turn 81 - 0% Literature

Empire
Athens
T73 - The Great Lighthouse; Deer,Wheat,Crab
T74-T75 Warrior; Deer,Crab,GMine,Fur
T76-T78 Settler; Deer,Crab,RiverFarm,GMine,Fur
T79 - Whip Settler; Deer,GMine,Fur
T80 - Galley; Deer,GMine,Fur <---- can we steal the Wheat back? Have Corinth work a riverside Grassland for 1 turn. +5F -3H in Athens, -4H in Corinth. Not sure how this will affect long-term growth/builds/happiness.
T81 - Galley; Deer,Wheat,GrassFarm
T82-T83 Galley; Deer,GMine,RiverFarm,Coast
T84 - Galley; Deer,GMine,RiverFarm,Fur
T85 - Galley; Deer;GMine,Fur,RiverCottage
T86 - Odeon; Deer,Wheat,GMine,RiverCottage,Coast
T87 - Odeon; Deer,Wheat,GMine,RiverCottage,Fur
T88 - Odeon; Deer,Wheat,GMine,RiverCottage,Coast

Thebes
T73 - Whip Granary; Crab
T74-T75 Workboat; Crab
T76 - Whip Workboat; Crab
T77-T78 Lighthouse; Crab
T79-T81 Lighthouse; x2Crab
T82-T83 Lighthouse; x2Crab,Fur
T84 - Whip Lighthouse; x2Crab
T85 - Catapult; x2Crab
T86 - Catapult; x2Crab,Fur
T87 - Worker; x2Crab,x2Coast <---- better to grow whenever Thebes can work x2 Crabs, then switch to the Workers and whip when 1 Crab goes to the capital
T88 - Worker; x2Crab,Fur,Coast <--- as above. Also, only build the Worker for 1 turn before whipping unless we need to convert to , like in Argos .

Sparta
T73 - Settler; Crab,Cow,Gem,GMine
T74 - Granary; Crab,Cow,Gem,GMine
T75 - Whip Granary; Crab,Cow,Lake <---- work Gems > Lake? Offers -2F +2H +5C ~~(just -1F due to Granary timing)~~
T76-T77 Workboat; Crab,Cow,Lake
T78 - Workboat; Crab,Cow,Lake,Gem
T79 - Workboat; Crab,Cow,Gem,GMine <---- work Lake > ~~Gems~~ GMine. With earlier edit, we are now: 0F -1H +7C overall.
T80 - Workboat; Crab,Cow,Gem,GMine,Lake
T81-T83 Settler; Crab,Cow,Gem,GMine,Lake
T84 - Whip Settler; Crab,Cow,Gem
T85 - Catapult; Crab,Cow,Lake
T86-T87 Catapult; Crab,Cow,Gem,Lake
T88 - Catapult; Crab,Cow,Gem,Lake,Coast

Corinth
T73 - Granary; RiverGem,Gem
T74-T75 Warrior; RiverGem,Wheat
T76-T78 Warrior; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
T79 - Warrior; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm
T80 - Worker; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm <--- See Athens comment on T80.
T81 - Whip Worker; RiverGem,Gem
T82 - Warrior; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
T83-T84 Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
T85 - Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm
T86-T88 Worker; RiverGem,Gem,RiverFarm,GMine <---- just stagnate for 1 turn and then whip. Corinth can grow on the Wheat when Athens starts its Settler.

Delaying the Worker/Catapult to use the Crabs to grow is ok, especially if the Galley is tied up with Argos.

If the Worker gets stranded for 1-2 turns, it could prechop the Fur Forest (pointless until ~10 turns before the game ends).

Argos <---- [Worker build would start on T87, if we delay Fish City. Settler would be delayed by 4 turns]
T73-T75 Granary; x2Fish
T76 - Whip Granary; x2Fish
T77-T78 Lighthouse; x2Fish
T79-T80 Lighthouse; x3Fish
T81 - Lighthouse; x3Fish,PlainsHill
T82 - Whip Lighthouse; x3Fish
T83 - Odeon; x3Fish,Plainshill
T84 - Library; x3Fish,Plainshill
T85 - Whip Library; x3Fish
T86 - Odeon; x3Fish,Coast <--- run 1x Scientist, if it doesn't affect growth
T87 - Workboat; x3Fish,Coast,Plainshill <--- run 1–2 x Scientists, if it doesn't affect growth]
T88 - Settler; x3Fish,Coast,x2Scientist <--- Work Coast tiles > Scientists to make up for any shortfall

On T87, a PH offers +2H. On T88, a Coast offers +2H +2C. So use these tiles to boost OF for the Work Boat.

Knossos (Deer+Gem City, founded Turn 78 2N1E of deer tile)
T78-T82 Granary; GrassForest <---- you said this is better than working a Plains Forest for 4 turns?
T83 - Granary; Deer
T84-T85 Barracks; Deer
T86 - Barracks; Deer,PlainsForest –1F to bring the Barracks to 20/50H. Is it better to work a Plains Forest for 1 turn before the Granary is built?
T87 - Whip Barracks; Deer
T88-T90 Catapult; Deer, RiverFarm

Mycenae (Corn City, founded turn 83 1W of corn tile)
T83 - Granary; CornTile
T84 - Barracks; CornTile
T85-T88 Barracks; Corn

Worker micro looks good to T86. (T87–8 are affected by Fish City).

Whale/Fish Work Boat should stay in our culture for 1–2 turns to save :commerce:

.

For Horse City:

Spoiler :

T92: Galley moves to the tile 2W of Sparta Crabs. Settler loads onto this.
T93: Galley moves 2W. Settler unloads 1SW. 2 Workers load onto Galley.
T94: Horse City founded. Galley moves 1SW. 2 Workers unload, move 1NW, begin Pasture.

^^^^ use this to shape earlier Worker whips/movement/improvements. With the Galley, we can skip 1-2 roads, settle the city 1 turn sooner, improve the Horse 2 turns sooner, and this (for me) is better than finding the borders of Shaka's coastal city.

Kaitzilla · Mar 6, 2015

Athens
The wheat wasn't worked Turn 80 because I was scared the :hammers:

for the 2nd Galley wouldn't get done at the start of Turn 86.
But the galley has 47/50 :hammers:

on turn 85 with 7 :hammers:

in production, so it appears that yes we can work wheat instead of GMine Turn 80 in Athens. :goodjob:

Sparta
Work gems instead of lake turn 75.
Work lake instead of gems turn 79.
Does that change anything? :lol:

Off the top of my head it is equivalent.
**Edit**
Oh I see it is lake instead of GMine
Hmm
Yes, we'd lose 1 :hammers:

but gain 7 :commerce:

The workboat gets done 30/30 so we should do it. :goodjob:

**Edit Again**
~~Grumble~~ Nevermind, it works great

Corinth
The city will lose 4 :hammers:

to gain Athens 5 :food:

on turn 80, but it should be well worth doing.

Knossos
Working a plains forest before granary is the same as working it after.
In my testing, working plains forests instead of grass forests the first 3 turns yielded -3 :food:

+3

when the city reached Size 2.
For simplicity, best to wait until turn 86 to work the plains forest.

Thebes+Argos
hmm, might be best to wait until we play up to turn 86 to decide Thebes if we want some turns to get played, but I can definitely see the benefit for Argos now that you point it out.

Horse City
Using the capital worker and the worker from corn tile, Horse City is founded and horse pasture is started by both workers with a full road system in place on Turn 94.
I don't think the galley speeds the city up.

Doshin · Mar 6, 2015

Kaitzilla said:
Sparta
Work gems instead of lake turn 85.
Work lake instead of gems turn 89.
Does that change anything?
Off the top of my head it is equivalent.

^^^^ Sorry, I made two mistakes. New edit should now read:

T75 - Whip Granary; Crab,Cow,Lake <--- work Gems > Lake? Offers -2F +2H +5C ~~(just -1F due to Granary timing)~~
T76-T77 Workboat; Crab,Cow,Lake
T78 - Workboat; Crab,Cow,Lake,Gem
T79 - Workboat; Crab,Cow,Gem,GMine <---- work Lake > ~~Gems~~ GMine. With earlier edit, we are now: 0F -1H +7C overall.

Basically, we work a Gems for 1 more turn and a GMine for 1 less.

Kaitzilla said:
Horse City
Using the capital worker and the worker from corn tile, Horse City is founded and horse pasture is started by both workers with a full road system in place on Turn 94.
Galley doesn't speed they city up.

I was mostly going from this:

Kaitzilla said:
have 2 workers 2N1E of the city that can start the horse pasture T95 or T96 depending on how many roads we want.

If this isn't a problem, a road system from Sparta ---> Horse will still consume 4–5 Worker turns in total for few short- or medium-term benefits.

Roads here are less useful than chops or Farms in Corn/Deer-Gems that contribute towards the stack, or Cottages in Athens.

Kaitzilla · Mar 6, 2015

Doshin said:
If this isn't a problem, a road system from Sparta ---> Horse will still consume 4–5 Worker turns in total for few short- or medium-term benefits.

Roads here are less useful than chops or Farms in Corn/Deer-Gems that contribute towards the stack, or Cottages in Athens.

Well, now that you mention it, we could bring down the worker that chops the forest 1S2W of Mycenae starting Turn 90 and have it road 1S1W of cow together with the capital worker on T92.
That lets us unload Settler T93 and load both workers if we move the galley to 2S3W of Sparta.
Then T94 when Horse City is founded, unload both workers and have them start horse like you mentioned.
We'd lose 2 roads and gain a chop I think.
Mycenae loses 1 :food:

also because a farm gets delayed I think.

shakabrade · Mar 6, 2015

Ok, I like the Kaitzilla's last save. Corinth is a work-pump, an idea behind more worker turns, settler is turned into a catapult and a barracks, it has more roads which is good for possible iron inside our territory.

If we happen to notice the imminent threat to Willem, build can be changed and Athens can quickly grow to whip a settler from size 6. Hopefully, this won't happen.

I know my micro by heart, probably, but don't know Kaitzilla's and it is work in progress. Also, I am in the less populated time zone. So, to get things moving, it is better to stop slowing the team down. I'd have to play this out a couple of times before playing it for real and portion of the night is already reserved.

I will be home alone from 15th to 21st of March and will probably fight loneliness with civving and will repair the computer because I can't live without the computer (paraphrasing printing press).

Regarding diplo:

I'd trade Maths for Iron Working in ideal case.

If owner of Alphabet has Maths, or is researching it and we must wait for IW, I'd go for Currency for Alpha and Maths for IW with someone else.
Currency makes people go for CoL sooner than Construction therefore we could increase our chance of getting it in a trade sooner.

We can live without Monarchy for now and can trade for it later. There is a high possibility of a luxury resource from trade in the next 15T. I wouldn't trade our only resource for small amount of GPT simply in orrder to have more stuff to trade for potential luxury.

There is very probable Iron in our borders if we take other team's peaks in power in the last turns. Trade with Mansa (copper) is probably not needed.

We will accept Willem's plea for help in a war against Shaka. Not.

Stopping conditions:

AI asking us for a gift.
AI asking for gold.
Spotting Shaka's SoD relatively near Amsterdam.
Someone's got Alphabet.
Barb galley blocking our galley. (Almost impossible.)

shakabrade · Mar 6, 2015

I really should calm down.

:beer:

Sorry for bringing my RL problems here.

I was told that disappointment with work is normal, and that long hours at the beginning are normal.
(I'd add even more if you are assigned to an extremely boring, long lasting and high-priority data processing task).

Doshin · Mar 6, 2015

Kaitzilla said:
Well, now that you mention it, we could bring down the worker that chops the forest 1S2W of Mycenae starting Turn 90 and have it road 1S1W of cow together with the capital worker on T92.
That lets us unload Settler T93 and load both workers if we move the galley to 2S3W of Sparta.
Then T94 when Horse City is founded, unload both workers and have them start horse like you mentioned.
We'd lose 2 roads and gain a chop I think.
Mycenae loses 1 also because a farm gets delayed I think.

How about:

T88: Whip the Corinth Worker.
T89: Move this 1S3W. Farm (2/5) and cancel.
T90: move to Grass Hill
T91–2: road
T93: load onto Galley

Athens Worker:

T88: Cottage (3/4)
T89: Cottage (4/4)
T90: move 1NW. Cottage (1/4)
T91: Cottage (2/4) and cancel
T92: move 2N1W. Farm (3/5) and cancel
T93: load onto Galley

This would keep the 3 Workers around Knossos and Mycenae, and put 2 more turns into a Cottage in Athens. 1 Sparta Hill receives a Road.

In the short-term, we save 2 Worker turns and will eventually get an earlier capital Cottage. But we can't scout Shaka's coast (if that is important) and the GHill 1S3W of Sparta is missing a road.

I'm not sure which you'd prefer. I don't mind either way, as long as we can begin improving the Horses on T94.

Duckweed · Mar 6, 2015

Fair point on Corinth build. I have thought that Corinth did not need to work on the wheat to produce the settler.

@shakabrade

Are you sure that you are able to play in so limited time.

Not only that there's still some micro discussions are still going on, but also

You need to get familiar with a PPP that is not from yourself.
Play the game with report of screenshots and possible stops in the middle.
Update the test game.

I'd suggest that you take turn sessions when you have more leisurely time.

SGOTM 21 - Plastic Ducks

Lord Croissant

Attachments

Deity

Lord Croissant

Deity

jolly yellow giant

Lord Croissant

Attachments

jolly yellow giant

Lord Croissant

Praise Vivec!

Deity

Lord Croissant

jolly yellow giant

jolly yellow giant

Lord Croissant

jolly yellow giant

Lord Croissant

Praise Vivec!

Praise Vivec!

jolly yellow giant

Deity

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