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SGOTM 21 - Plastic Ducks

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Everyone likes the Aesthetics+Math+55:gold: for Metal Casting trade :)

    If we are trading away Aesthetics to Mansa, then how about trading Louis Aesthetics for his 80:gold: after the Mansa trade?
    Louis only knows 3AI; Mansa,Mao,and Isabella.
    Maybe he'd build Parthenon for us.

    The only way we are gonna see Mansa's tech is to put 10%:espionage: slider for 1 turn.
    I started the turnset T88 4:espionage: behind Mansa and I ended it on T94 4:espionage: behind Mansa.
    He kept putting just enough espionage spending to foil us looking at his research.
    I even tried viewing his tech between turns, but I never saw the brief flicker.

    I'll think about the arctic fish city/trireme question.

    @Duckweed - I can do the trade and stuff and press next turn, but I want to pass play to the next team member starting Turn 95.
     
  2. Duckweed

    Duckweed Chieftain

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    We don't know who is researching Monarchy now, so I prefer to hold those trade baits as long as possible. If Louis is researching Aes now, then I don't mind to help him for the last few turns. With Marble and stone, I'm pretty sure that Louis could build most of the wonders for us, we are not that close to take his cities.

    Yes, most of the city build would be the same, that's why I suggested that you play a few more turns. Of course, it's up to your choice.:)

    The only question is where could we squeeze a trireme?

    Edit:
    Why you did not use the culture bug in Horse site?
    We should move the idle warrior toward Sparta and then the Sparta warrior moves to Athens. Therefore 1 warrior could go with the galley. The south galley could arrive on T97 and pickup a settler on T98.
     
  3. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    I can't think of any city that can build us a trireme. :(
    Maybe Iron City could do it after it completes granary?
    Or we could have Athens do it, and only build 1 arctic fish city in the short term using Thebes when it regrows to Size 6.
    The site 4S6E of Thebes is the best one with a hill and lots of coastal tiles.
    The others aren't very good.

    Horse City didn't use :culture: bug because the bug only works the turn your borders pop.
    So Horse City should build :culture: on T96 when horses come online.

    10% Mansa slider is a great idea I think.
    We need to start teching soon unless we want to pile up +1000:gold:, and we can't really do that until we know what he is doing.
    It is well worth 20:gold: to do it.

    The warrior shift into Athens is a great idea. :goodjob:
    One more warrior would certainly help cut down on dreaded galley spawns.
     
  4. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Just looked at the file. I haven't much to add. Everything looks great. :goodjob:

    Some small thoughts:

    • Warrior 5 (Sparta) could begin to move towards Knossos or Athens.

    • Will we lose trade routes with Elizabeth when we declare war on Willem? Or is it enough that trade routes can go via the Desert island, even though we haven't unfogged this area?

      Spoiler :


      Not sure there is much we can do, in any case.
    • Sparta should build Culture: if the borders pop next turn, we'll save an extra :commerce: with any units that move between Knossos and Mycenae.

      Spoiler :
    • Mao will be beelining Calendar. He went to Mathematics very early, and has Sugar in his capital:

      Spoiler :
    • 10% into Espionage sounds good. If you haven't already, turn on the "show enemy/friendly movements" options, and take screenshots IBT. It is possible that our EP will reveal Mansa's research at the end of our turn, but he will retaliate at the end of his turn.

    • Meeting Catherine is now the #1 priority with the exploring WB. After that... IDK. Try and find the 10th AI, if we can meet them before Astronomy?

    Question: should we sell Mysticism to Mao for 10G? I know that it is peanuts, but this means that we can trade Polytheism on the next turn. Aesthetics/Alpha/Currency + Polytheism would be enough for Calendar or Monarchy.

    ---

    BTW, Mansa can build Courthouses and has good odds to generate a GSpy, so our tech visibility will be short-lived.
     
  5. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Ya, can move that warrior.

    Sparta building :culture: would slow down our DoW by 1 turn by delaying the swordsman, so I don't think it would be worth it to save a gold.

    Mansa can't build courthouses. He doesn't have Code of Laws yet.
    I assume you mean the Great Spy from Mansa's The Great Wall will screw us over. ^.^
    It was built in 1200BC hmm. Thankfully Mansa not philosophical, but the great spy is coming sooner or later so we are probably doomed yup.

    I am still very in favor of doing 10%:espionage: slider right now.
    I have move friendly/enemy movements turned on, but still never saw his tech choice flicker.

    Mao teching Calendar would be nice.
    I never noticed his sugar. :yumyum:
    Ya, we can trade him Mysticism for 10:gold: sure.
     
  6. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Iron City has two ways to grow:

    T102: Size 2, 7F 11H. Grew to size 2 on T101.
    T102: Size 2, 12F 6H. Grew to size 2 on T102.​

    Triremes are 50H, so we'd opt to 1-pop whip.

    11H + (7*2) = 25/50H, so 1-pop whip to produce a Trireme on T105
    6H + (7*2) = 20/30H, so 1-pop whip to produce a Trireme on T105​

    Food heavy option wins, if we want to produce a Trireme or Galley here.

    A chop might speed up a Trireme, but would delay Fish City too.

    ----

    Doesn't the Culture bug allow Sparta to produce the Sword next turn? It's easy to check if you have the T94 test.
     
  7. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Oh! It worked!

    Had to hold down Control to add Culture to the queue in front of the swordsman, but it popped borders and produced the swordsman at the same time. :)
    Yes, we should build :culture: in Sparta T94 and make sure Swordsman is in the queue with it.

    Test Game pics:
    Spoiler :



    So the list of actions for the end of T94 is now:
    • Trade Aesthetics+Math+55:gold: to Mansa for Metal Casting.
    • Trade Mysticism to Mao for 10:gold:
    • Check if Louis will pay less than 80:gold: for each of our 4 techs because he is researching one of them.
    • 10% :espionage: slider on Mansa and screenshot inbetween turn.
    • Move the warrior between Sparta and Horse City closer to Sparta.
    • Build :culture: in Sparta and put Swordsman in queue.
    • Press end turn.
    • ==================
    • Move exploration workboat at start of T95 and then upload
     
  8. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Risking the southern Galley to explore sounds best to me. We will still receive winning odds vs. barbs and 3-movement would help us to flee.

    If we wanted to play very safe, we could bring a Warrior. The Warrior would unload onto a hill to gain 2-tile visibility. If it's clear on the following turn, the Warrior loads back onto the Galley the next turn and the Galley moves ahead. We move at half the speed but it's 100% safe until we reach the large island with Forests.

    Sheep-Iron could then produce another Galley to help in the south or north.



    I checked Louis earlier, and he'd hand over 80G for any of our techs.

    Green light. :goodjob:
     
  9. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Thanks :)
    Playing the end of T94 now!

    Continuing Real Game play from Here

    T94 - Metal Casting is ours :)

    T95 - Mansa is teching Code of Laws in 3 turns
    Mahodabi built in faraway land (Hindu? Mansa?)
    Met Tokugawa.
    We are already -4 with him for trading with his worst enemy Mansa, so no open borders. He is plotting war against someone.

    Uploaded at start of T95!

    Log
    Spoiler :
    Reference number: 14697
    Game: C-IV SGOTM 21
    Your team: Plastic Ducks
    Your name: Kaitzilla
    Date submitted: 2015-03-15
    Software Version: BtS 3.19
    Game date: 500BC
    Total turns played: 95
    Session turns played: 1
    Player race: Greece
    Firaxis score: 508
    Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 00:13:18
    Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 13:40:34
    Game status: Incomplete
    Submitted save: SGOTM21 T95 Upload Now.CivBeyondSwordSave
    Renamed file: Plastic_Ducks_SG021_BC0500_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

    Right click the Renamed File link above to copy it.
    You can then paste it into your team post as the download link for the next player.



    Here is your Session Turn Log from 525 BC to 500 BC:

    Turn 94, 525 BC: Athens will become unhappy on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Sparta has become happy.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Thebes can hurry Odeon for 1⇴ with 3ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 30 turns.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Argos can hurry Settler for 2⇴ with 8ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 32 turns.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Whales City has grown to size 2.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Whales City can hurry Work Boat for 1⇴ with 6ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: The borders of Argos are about to expand.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Mansa Musa will trade Metal Casting
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Mycenae.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Athens will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Thebes will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Mycenae will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Athens will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Thebes will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Mycenae will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: You have discovered Metal Casting!
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Athens will become unhappy on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Louis XIV has 80 gold available for trade.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Louis XIV is the worst enemy of Isabella.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Shaka is the worst enemy of Willem van Oranje.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Willem van Oranje is the worst enemy of Shaka.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: The borders of Sparta are about to expand.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: The borders of Argos are about to expand.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: The borders of Iron City are about to expand.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Shaka will trade Sheep
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Willem van Oranje will trade Clam
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Mansa Musa will trade Horse, Pig, Sheep
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Athens will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Thebes will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: Mycenae will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: The borders of Sparta have expanded!
    Turn 94, 525 BC: The borders of Argos have expanded!
    Turn 94, 525 BC: You have trained a Swordsman in Mycenae. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
    Turn 94, 525 BC: The borders of Iron City have expanded!
    Turn 94, 525 BC: The Mahabodhi has been built in a far away land!

    Turn 95, 500 BC: Athens has grown to size 6.
    Turn 95, 500 BC: Thebes has grown to size 4.
    Turn 95, 500 BC: Thebes will become unhappy on the next turn.
    Turn 95, 500 BC: Thebes can hurry Phalanx for 2⇴ with 29ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 29 turns.
    Turn 95, 500 BC: Knossos will become unhappy on the next turn.
    Turn 95, 500 BC: Mycenae has grown to size 4.
    Turn 95, 500 BC: Mycenae can hurry Catapult for 2⇴ with 15ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 15 turns.
    Turn 95, 500 BC: Mansa Musa is the worst enemy of Mao Zedong.

    You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility

    Buffy Log:
    Spoiler :
    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 94/500 (525 BC) [15-Mar-2015 16:23:31]
    Tech traded to Mansa Musa (Mali): Mathematics
    Tech traded to Mansa Musa (Mali): Aesthetics
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Metal Casting
    Tech traded to Mao Zedong (China): Mysticism
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    10% Espionage: 21 per turn
    90% Gold: 76 per turn, 448 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Athens grows to size 6
    Athens finishes: Odeon
    Sparta's borders expand
    Sparta finishes: Swordsman
    Thebes grows to size 4
    Argos's borders expand
    Mycenae grows to size 4
    Mycenae finishes: Swordsman
    Whales City finishes: Work Boat
    Iron City's borders expand

    Turn 95/500 (500 BC) [15-Mar-2015 16:33:55]
    Athens begins: Settler (10 turns)
    Sparta begins: Catapult (10 turns)
    Whales City begins: Granary (60 turns)
    Player contact made: Tokugawa of Japan

    Turn 95 Real Game Pics!
    Spoiler :






     
  10. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Here is the Official Turn 95 TEST GAME.

    Who wants to play next?
    Squash Willem like a bug. :devil:
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Duckweed

    Duckweed Chieftain

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    OMG, you are really the luckiest player in our team,:bowdown: how could you make Mansa start CoL?:eek:
     
  12. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Nice to see BSPollux's trolling doesn't stop. The red culture is Tokugawa's. :lol:

    He must have some strong good research tiles potential, to have reached Code of Laws and Metal Casting already.

    It looks like there's an island to the east of Iron/Sheep:

    Spoiler :


    ^^^ that shouldn't display food/commerce. Home of Cathy?

    ---

    Who wants to play next? :)

    I'd be happy to write a mini-PPP for Argos/Iron City/Fish City and Worker/Galley actions in this area, so that the active player can focus upon optimizing the war and claiming further fish islands.

    We doubled our city count during Kaitzilla's set, btw. :crazyeye:
     
  13. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    New micro trick that I discovered on Friday. This was amazing for me. :dance:

    Example One

    Spoiler :
    Earlier in the game, Knossos had to work a Plains Forest to enable a 1-pop whip at size 2:

    Spoiler :






    Switching a Grass Forest to a Plains Forest is worth: –1F +1H.
    Whipping at size 2 > size 3 is worth: +1F.

    Total: 0F +1H

    Ok, good deal.

    However!

    Spoiler :




    Er, 24/24F at size 2, allowing a whip to size 1??? :confused:

    Working a Grass Forest is now worth: 0F 0H.
    Whipping at size 2 > size 3 is worth: +1F.

    Total: +1F

    Better deal! :D

    Example Two

    Spoiler :
    Player A: "Oh no! I couldn't chop my Granary in time." :(

    Spoiler :




    Booo. What a waste of food. :cry:

    Player A's city grows to size 3 on T110:


    Player B: "I couldn't whip it in time either. But nevermind. Guess I'll just slow things down for a turn."

    Spoiler :






    What a nice full Granary. :)

    Player B's city grows to size 3 on T109:



    +6 :food: overall and an extra turn of growth, which snowballs.

    Example Three

    Spoiler :
    This is from Sheep/Iron city. The Granary completes when the food basket is at 18/22F. The city screen looks like this:

    Spoiler :


    Note the: "Turns on Avoid Growth" governor option.

    If we continue to grow, the city reaches size 2 on T101. On T102 the city has 7F 11H:

    Spoiler :



    If we pause growth, the city stays at size 1 on T101. On T102 the city has 12F 6H:

    Spoiler :




    Remember to switch off the "Avoid City Growth" option after 1 turn! Or you will be stuck at size 1 forever.

    The micro always needs to support the macro. If Sheep/Iron growing to size 2 on T101 would let us build a Worker and set up Fish City sooner (or build a Galley/Trireme 1 turn earlier) this would be better.

    However, the earlier growth and extra hammers make no difference. Using a Forest and extra hammers to complete an earlier Worker here would actually slow Fish City down.

    So it is better to grow one turn later with +5F –5H overall. :goodjob:

    Imagine optimizing growth in various small ways like this across a game, and it's huge.
     
  14. Duckweed

    Duckweed Chieftain

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    It's time for Shakabrade to show Shaka how to take Amsterdam.:D
     
  15. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    Great progress!

    Would love to. :D
    I have much more time to spare this week.

    I am home alone until Saturday and can attempt to fix the computer without being disturbed. If all goes great, desktop will be civ computer tomorrow after work.
     
  16. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    I'm just glad he teched Alphabet!
    Look how many other Immortal AI have Alpha on Turn 95, 500BC.
    Zero

    I thought the same. Catherine!
    Noooope :nope:

    Good catching he already knows Metal Casting.
    I've never seen Toku be a tech leader before.
    Maybe he popped that Great Merchant earlier and bulbed?
    Or he has really good tiles for his cities ya.

    Yes, there must be an island east of sheep across the ocean. :goodjob:

    Good Luck! :D
    Hope your computer repairs work out and you get to have some fun smashing civs.

    My only thought glancing at the T95 save is that we might have enough military power now to beg Elizabeth for her 40:gold:
     
  17. Duckweed

    Duckweed Chieftain

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    Alpha was a important tech to have, but not a lucky event.

    Doshin and I were not lucky with AIs' tech choice during our turn sessions. Toku usually is a AI who likes Alpha. Liz chose to research CoL while she already had Judaism. If we were lucky, then there could be 1 AI having Alpha before 1000BC.

    Mansa had a lot of tech choices (Med, Lit, Drama, Calenda, Construction, Monarchy, Compass, HR, Machinery) before choosing CoL and CoL was a unfavorite tech.
     
  18. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Hmmm

    Shall we tech Machinery right now then?
    We could have it by Turn 100 I think.
    Crossbows would do funny things to Shaka's Impi+Axe army.

    Maybe send a Sword+Phalanx to pillage and fortify on Shaka's horses to keep Horse archers away.

    Pillaging Shaka's horses 7W1S of Horse City could be one of the first things we do in a war against Shaka since it is on the very edge of his culture. :)

    Start building some of those fabled Windmills too. ;)

    =========================

    I looked up the Mahabodhi shrine that got built T94.
    It is the Buddhist Shrine in Isabella's lands.


    Sure you don't want to try to generate 2 Great Scientists to double bulb Education?
    Those half price universities :yumyum:

    Or we could focus on Machinery+Compass+Optics (ignoring Civil Service) and try to double bulb Astronomy. :hmm:
    We don't have the military to take over the whole world right away, but would help us settle that marble south of Toku.
    Gobble up the barb city Kushins
    Attack any coastal AI city that build Pyramids or Mao if he builds MoM because he has Calendar now.
    Most cities in the world are coastal and with 5:move: galleons, we could be very specific in what we attack and take.

    When's a good time to do golden age?
    We will hopefully have opportunity for Bureau+Monarchy+Org.Religion+Judiasm in around 10-15 turns.


    **Edit**
    What was the way to bulb Engineering again? Double bulb Astro and then bulb Engineering with a Great Scientist?
    The list always give me a headache.
    Spoiler :
    Great Scientist:

    Writing
    Mathematics
    Scientific Method
    Physics
    Education
    Printing Press
    Fiber Optics
    Computers
    Laser (BTS)
    The Wheel
    Alphabet (BTS)
    Philosophy
    Chemistry
    Fission
    Fusion
    Optics
    Paper
    Astronomy
    Biology
    Electricity
    Flight
    Genetics
    Compass
    Satellites
    Aesthetics (BTS)
    Sailing
    Alphabet (Vanilla & Warlords)
    Calendar
    Medicine
    Ecology
    Advanced Flight (BTS)
    Iron Working
    Metal Casting
    Engineering
    Steam Power
    Liberalism
    Agriculture
    Masonry
    Bronze Working
    Machinery
    Gunpowder
    Refrigeration
    Superconductors (BTS)
    Rocketry
    Fishing
    Combustion
    Plastics
    Composites
    Stealth (BTS)
    Mining
    Military Science (BTS)
    Radio
    Meditation
    Drama
    Theology
    Music
    Civil Service
    Democracy
    Corporation
    Communism
    Economics
    Hunting
    Archery
    Animal Husbandry
    Construction
    Robotics
    Monotheism
    Mass Media
    Horseback Riding
    Replaceable Parts
    Rifling
    Artillery
    Future Tech
     
  19. Duckweed

    Duckweed Chieftain

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    It helps the war, but is a tech that could be traded later. Let's hope Mansa get it for us, he could complete in ~8 turns.
     
  20. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Wait, if we are gonna pillage Shaka's horses, we could do it the 1st turn of the war with a Sword+Chariot.
    They can start 1S1E of Shaka's horses, then chariot could pillage and retreat back onto the forest with the sword.
    No workers would be able to fix the horse pasture without being gobbled up by our chariot. And sword in forest is very hard to kill.
     

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