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SGOTM 21 - Plastic Ducks

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Can Lions go into forest? It's been so long I don't remember. I do remember that animals will not go on resources however (unless it directly attacks).
     
  2. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Ya, they can go into forests.
    Wait, I need to check that :lol:
    And you're right. They can't go onto the corn tile unless we are standing on it.

    **EDIT**
    Test game indicates that Lions can go into forests.
    Spoiler :
     
  3. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    I agree to be Cautious :)shifty:) then. Just my presence on the team might be enough to counter soundjata's good RNG luck :lol:.
     
  4. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    :lol:

    Ok, team seems to be feeling Cautious, so I'll play 2 more turns and retreat the Scout back down towards the hill/forest/gems to confront the Wolf later.

    Finishing turnset in 10 minutes.
     
  5. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    If you still have time, could you keep going? I remember that Kaku had the strictly rule of 10 turns each person. We are very flexible here, as long as you feel interested and have time, you can keep going. The early turns does not cost much time.
     
  6. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    I'd keep going if the team was 100% behind teching Mining next, but I'm not sure. :crazyeye:

    So I'm going to pass the buck. ;)

    Uploaded on Turn 10!
    Upload is NOT paused.
    Logs are back on the turnset post.
     
  7. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Turn 10, Real Game Photodump!

    Empire and Revealed Map
    Spoiler :
















    Demographics:
    Spoiler :
    Turn 0

    Turn 1

    Turn 2

    Turn 3

    Turn 4

    Turn 5

    Turn 6

    Turn 7

    Turn 8

    Turn 9

    Turn 10

    Espionage:
    Spoiler :
    Turn 1

    Turn 2

    Turn 3

    Turn 4

    Turn 7

    Turn 10

    Top 5 Cities
    Spoiler :
    Turn 4

    Turn 5

    Turn 6

    Turn 8

    Turn 9
     
  8. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Player Order:

    1) Kaitzilla - Done
    2) Doshin - Next
    3) Yamps - On Deck
    4) Kossin
    5) Shakabrade
    6) Duckweed

    Soundjata (Computer Problems)


    Any volunteers for the next turnset?
    Should be fairly easy :)


    Will attach the turn 10 Test Game soon.
    Just have to move the Test Game capital to (55,8) and add some stuff.
     
  9. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Good show!

    I might get some time next week. If not, 2 weeks from now I'll pick up some slack.

    I did play some turns using the test save from T14. Conclusions: 2nd worker before 2nd settler is pretty much mandatory and economy lags behind production.
     
  10. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    Well done.

    I have no objection to Mining->BW next.:) Research is the bottleneck to Oracle.

    BTW, doshin could pickup a turnset whenever he feels itchy.;)
     
  11. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Looking good. :goodjob:

    -----

    I'm 99% sure Mining should be our next tech. What are the alternatives?

    The hill 1N of the capital can be mined before our second Settler is out. It is the best tile left to work, and we are currently lacking in :hammers: , not :food: or :commerce: .

    Because of this, I *think* the tile 1NW of the capital should be the one that is partially farmed. This squeezes one more turn from Worker #2, assuming that it goes straight to the Gems in our second (Cow) city.

    I agree with kossin that we will need a second Worker before a second Settler.

    Quick testing suggested to me that city #2 should build its own Workboat via a Gems chop, but perhaps there is a decent way to have the capital build it?

    The tech path is difficult after Bronze Working. However, even with an Oracle goal, Mining ---> Bronze Working ---> Sailing looks very strong to me at present. The first island alone will provide a substantial commerce boost.

    I haven't looked at the demographic numbers, but the EP ratio with Willem keeps dropping. Does this mean that he's met another AI?
     
  12. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    I think he settled 1 turn before us and got 4:espionage: ahead of us.
    That's why the cost spiked to 200% on turn 1.

    I don't think he's met anyone else yet.
    Hopefully we aren't trapped on an island together.
     
  13. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Yep, WvO got 4 EP/turn on us so far.

    (2*40+36)/(2*36+40) = 103.6 --> 103% :espionage: spending cost
     
  14. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Sigh, I just spent almost an hour making the test map completely accurate and as soon as I exited World Builder my civ was defeated. :cry:

    Guess adding and destroying cities on turn 0 is a bad idea.

    Will try again tomorrow.
     
  15. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Land Area in the demographics screen is interesting. On T4, our 15(!) land tiles briefly place us at #2 in terms of land area.

    T3 reveals there is more than one Creative AI. I thought this was new information, but then remembered that Catherine is one of the "hearts" we need to win. :crazyeye:

    Of the nine AI:

    One of these AI is landlocked (9,000 ---> 21,000 sq. km.). This jump occurs on T2 ---> T3, so it's either Willem or Catherine.

    One of the non-Creative AI has virtually zero land: 2,000 ----> 7,000 sq. km. on T1 ---> T4 (or 2 tiles to 7 tiles, including the city center).

    Including our city, 125 land tiles have been claimed, and Kaitzilla earlier wrote that there are 1133 tiles in total.

    If we remove the outliers (the largest and smallest AIs) the land area shared between the remaining 7 AIs goes:

    T2: 39,994 = 40 land tiles for 7 AI
    T3: 46,993 = 47 land tiles for 7 AI. (Creative #2 gains +7 land tiles)
    T5: 81,998 = 82 land tiles for 7 AI.(remaining 6 AI gain +35 land tiles, or +5.83 per civ)​

    We can conclude:

    • Creative #1 is land locked and grows from 9 ----> 21 tiles.
    • Creative #2 has 1&#8211;5 tiles initially and gains +7 tiles from the border pop (surpassing our land area on the demographics screen, T3) but is overtaken by us again on T4 (<15 tiles, total). (Unless there is a third Creative AI).
    • Creative #2 + Other AIs #3&#8211;8 average 11.7 land tiles per capital.
    • Of this group, two must have > 15 land tiles to surpass our total land area on T5. This means that among the middling pack, there are five AI with very little land, dragging the average down to 11.7 tiles.
    • Tiny AI #9 is coastal and goes from 2 ----> 7 tiles.

    -----

    That probably wasn't worth the effort. :lol: But it's useful to summarize, I suppose.

    The GLH seems like a long shot, if 8 AIs are on the coast.

    With all these tiny AIs stuck with small coastal capitals, I wonder whether we will be able to circumnavigate the globe without Astronomy?

    We may be able to start warring before Engineering if enough leaders are crippled close to us. The AI is rubbish at dealing with coastal starts (Work Boat ----> Work Boat ----> Settler ----> Moai Statues...) and Catapults are fine against Classical units.
     
  16. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    Even if it wasn't worth the effort, it was quite interesting to read how you try to calculate this. If you got something like that, add it to the list of posts to be checked for correctness after the game is done.
     
  17. Yamps

    Yamps Deity

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    I'll have the time over the weekend. Maybe you, Soundjata or Doshin could jump in earlier. It would be useful to do some tests, but it seems there's no objection regarding Mining -> BW.
     
  18. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    I signed up as an adviser and will mostly stick to this. However, as I've already tested, it's no problem for me to move the game to T20, when the Settler completes. The early game is very quick.

    In terms of cities:

    Spoiler :


    ...am I right to assume we plan to settle (A) 1E of the Cows; (B) 2N of the Wheat?

    If city #3 is 2N of the Wheat, should we chop the Forest before settling?

    ---> This is way beyond my turn set, but will affect micro already.​

    If city #2 is 1E of the Cows, should it work a farmed Cows or mined Gems at size 2?
    ---> This will affect Worker movement and timing.​

    After the capital has produced the Settler, should we grow to size 4 by building a Warrior or Workboat?
    ---> A Warrior can be built in 3 turns, completing when the capital grows to size 4. If we build a Workboat, we access the Crabs in the Cow city sooner, but delay the Worker.

    ---> At size 4, our capital has 15 :hammers: production when building Workers or Settlers. 4 turns for Worker is pretty good.​

    If city #3 generates 40:hammers: through chopping the two Gems, this would be the easiest way to build a Galley without whipping (if we do research Sailing). BTW, we don't need The Wheel to connect the Gems, since at least two are on rivers.



    I'll post a test, but am happy to hear thoughts and feedback.

    ----

    In terms of scouting:

    Spoiler :


    1SE, 1SE, then fortify?
     
  19. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    Maybe it could scout a bit further north through those forest hills. Or scout through north of the wheat, it only needs to turn back in time before T23.
     
  20. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    The Gem mine can be finished with two Workers while the city is @ size 2 (~14/24F in the city). It can then work two of the Cows/Crabs/Gems.

    If growth to size 3 is prioritized, then we don't need immediate access to the Gems, so the Worker micro will change.

    No, but I can test.

    Building a Warrior/Workboat before a Worker won't affect the development of city #2. In fact, getting a Workboat from the capital will be the quickest way to set this city up. Growth to size 4 in the capital is nice as well (&#8211;1 :food: +3 :hammers: +1 :commerce:).

    An earlier Worker may help city #3, though, if we decide to settle 2N of the Wheat and chop the Forest there.
     

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