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SGOTM 21 - Plastic Ducks

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. pomthom

    pomthom Drive & Reverb

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    Goodbye Paris, good morning London
    :wavey:

    Apologies to the staff for barging in, but just wanted to give a quick good luck to the Ducks! (which I won't have time to follow)

    Bring home the :trophy:
     
  2. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    If early worker2 from capital does not help, then growing to size 4 makes sense. You could compare both way in terms of total output of Food, hammers, and commerce.

    Since commerce is the bottle neck, I'd probably favor Crab+Gem than Crab+Cow at size 2.
     
  3. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    It's not too late to signup now, even as a lurker. I have thought that you have disappeared.:mischief:
     
  4. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Gems for me. Research looked to be a problem as we've said a few times already.

    :wavey: pomthom
     
  5. soundjata

    soundjata Be like water

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    I'm not able to play atm. Can't make buffy work on my stupid new machine :/
     
  6. soundjata

    soundjata Be like water

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    @ Doshin re:scouting.
    I'd be happy if we fortified the scout 2SE.
    IDK what there's to find north of the gems that would affect our immediate settling plan.

    After city 2 is settled, we should be able to spit out a couple of warriors on exploration duty.
     
  7. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    Windows 8? Many MS's products are awful, windows 8 is one of the worst.
     
  8. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Win8 is actually pretty good in terms of optimization as an OS. If you install Classic Shell and remove all the annoying charm things, it's the best Microsoft OS out there IMO.

    I managed to make BUFFY work with Win8... what's your issue soundjata? Wife is around? :p
     
  9. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Hi pomthom. :wavey: Please sign up! The game has hardly begun, and we have a good team.

    ----

    I'm having big problems with Steam/BTS and Windows. I'm trying to reinstall everything to see if that helps the memory issues and Python errors. Unfortunately I couldn't take any pictures before doing this...

    Regardless, I thought Settler ---> Worker first tests were the most efficient. I attach two stopping points. If someone could open these and post screenshots on my behalf, that would be appreciated. :)

    The key info:

    Capital build: Settler ---> Worker ---> Warrior (grow to size 4) ---> Settler ---> ??? (WB or Warriors, grow to size 5)

    Building a Worker at size 3 provides the earliest possible access to the Gems. City#2 has to work a 2:food: 2:commerce: tile (instead of the 3F Cow) for one turn to research Bronze Working in time.

    At size 2, city#2 works the Cows and a Hill Forest (for 30/30H), followed by the Cows and Crabs (unimproved), followed by the Crabs and Gems (both improved).

    The capital grows to size 4 while building a Warrior. These turns let the Workers move and (pre)chop Forests.

    City #3 will work the Wheat (6F) Wheat (12F) Gems 1N (14F). 3 turns are needed to grow to size 2, and 3 turns are needed to improve the Gems 2N1W.

    With this micro in city #3, the second chop would finish a Galley with 50/50H.​


    Again, sorry for the lack of screenshots.

    Let me know what you think!
     
  10. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    Screenshots from Doshin's save

    T30

    Spoiler :





    T39
    Spoiler :




    T30 save looks good to me.:goodjob:

    I'm not sure about the next tech, and the build other than a warrior and 2nd settler. It mainly depends on whether we could find a easy copper. Otherwise, we probably need to spam a few warriors to fogbust.

    BTW, we probably want to switch to slavery immediately since it suffers less earlier and also gives workers 1 more turn to improve.
     
  11. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    With Slavery revolt and whip for earlier city #3. T40 to make up for city development.
    Spoiler :


    For techs, I had Mining>BW>Myst>Poly>PH>Writing in mind. Obviously we may want to add a few things in there.
     
  12. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Finally updated the test game.
    Capital is at (55,8) so any map editing we do won't run out of room in a few months.

    Test Game, Turn 10!
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Great. Thanks!


    I agree, and T30 can be a stopping point where we decide on the next tech/future direction.


    Ok.


    Nice test. :goodjob:

    We can compare approaches in more detail after Bronze Working is in. There are too many small differences and unknowns at present to get caught up in the details.

    -----

    I've reinstalled Civ and will play tomorrow. (Going from 0 free space to 2GB.... :woohoo:)

    After testing a little ahead, I am not sure that bulbing Mathematics will be useful at all, e.g. if we research Sailing ---> AH ---> Writing ---> Priesthood ---> Mathematics, we finish Writing on T49:

    Spoiler :

    And, with effective micro, we could have Mathematics on T60 and the Oracle on T61:

    Spoiler :


    ^^^^ this is T62, but a 1-turn Oracle would be easy with better micro.

    11 turns elapsed between my researching Writing and Mathematics. A minimum of 2 turns will be needed to build a Library, and a minimum of 9 turns would be needed to generate 1 Great Scientist. Therefore, bulbing seems unnecessary.
     
  14. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    kossin, :thanx: I have a new gaming laptop with 8.1. Per your recco, I just installed Classic Shell. I still need to install civ, expansions, and HOF mods.
    Spoiler :
    I did install Civ vanilla, got Incompatibility message, and stopped.
     
  15. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    Nice test and interesting result, Doshin.

    We have seen 3 reliable GP farms, the north PH island might be a strong GP farm if there's another seafood. Capital alone could produce 2 GPs before switching to CS, we could produce 5~6 GPs without problem. As I said before, if we could produce enough GPs, we don't bother of saving a GS. Instead of researching Math, we could research other techs as TW and CoL. We also need to save some cash to know the tasks.

    Is it possible to build Oracle in the north Gem site to avoid pollution?
     
  16. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    You're welcome !
    Even though AH is cheaper than TW+Pottery, I'm not entirely convinced we should go for it. So far it means 2H and possibility to reveal Horses. We can decide after BW as you say.

    One thing to be check: when you test, prevent contact with the hidden AIs, we may have gotten a few free beakers on Mining. In my test I spent 2 turns on the 2F2C just to be safe.

    The difficulty with Oracle here is that we will not have Marble and there are not that many forests for north Gem site. Unless we go straight to Priesthood after BW, it becomes a workforce issue: we could keep the second gem un-mined so that 3 BFC forests (3*30) + 2 outer ring (2*24) + 1 further (16?) = 154H but that's a crap load of worker turns (over 25 worker turns).
     
  17. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    Hello!

    The difficulty with Oracle may be 10 AIs.
    Let's say 2-3 with Marble...
    We have Izzy on this map already.

    Must read other posts to keep up.
     
  18. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    It's hard, but looks like doable. We probably don't need to save the forest on Gem. Pre whip something should give us 30H.

    Capital producing 2 GPs with pollution is too much. I could accept 1 early non GS GP, which can be used for a golden age, but the 2nd unlucky GP could cost us more than 5 turns, which is more than the loss of Oracle.
     
  19. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Turn 30 test game looks good to me also. :D
    Mining and Bronze Working seem the way to go.

    I like all the city builds and what the 2 workers are doing too.
    Both chopping and mining will get us gems fast.
    And a workboat too.


    How careful do we want to be with our Scout?
    During testing, it easily killed the Wolf, but a Lion showed up to menace the cows very quickly anyway.
    Once the Wolf is dead, wouldn't it be worth it to scout 1NE, then come back to hilltop forest gems?
    It would reveal a lot of tiles.
    And even if a Lion was there and attacked, we'd still have the 87.8% chance of winning.
    And surviving would mean 2xp, so it could promote and spend much less time healing.

    I like Doshin's plan to get to Turn 30, I just want us to be a bit more aggressive with Scout.

    Maybe Turn 24 after our 2nd city is settled.
    Or maybe the Wolf attacks right away, the Scout takes no damage, and it can explore up the east coast 1 tile at a time briefly.
     
  20. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Sorry for the delay. A couple of unexpected things came up yesterday that kept me from the game.

    I'm going to make a note of :science: each turn and other key points from the test, and will play afterwards (45 minutes or so).

    Science is very tight, btw, which is why I want to keep track. ;)

    [edit: bad test/screens cut]
     

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