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SGOTM 21 Pregame Discussion Thread - Conquering the Hearts

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by Deckhand, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    Please use this thread to discuss or raise questions about the game rules before it starts.

    Please don't speculate about your team strategies here. Wait until you have a private team thread - and you know which teams you are allocated to.

    Caveat, everything is subject to change. So check game maintenance thread when game starts for official rules. (A couple things changed last game and a few players missed it).
     
  2. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    I will update this post with any rule clarifications.

    Laurels & Awards
    Teams will be ranked first by number of hearts won, then by date.
    Gold, Silver, and Bronze Laurels go top three teams.
    Wooden Spoons will go to team with lowest score.
    To be eligible for any reward, you must submit a save on the turn after you achieve victory.

    Scenario
    Win the hearts of the three female leaders.
    Then win the game with any victory condition.

    Restrictions
    You cannot beg from Willem.**
    If you purchase info from another leader due to Willem's demise, you may no longer beg from that leader. (no begs after buying)

    Winning Hearts
    You need to fulfill only one task for each ruler.
    You can only fulfill a task you know of. If you buy info and realize you already finished a task it won't count. If you are 'half way done' but the last piece is still missing that's OK, as long as you know about the task when you finish it. Example: The task demands you do A, B and C. You already did A and B when you learn about it. Doing C now will count as successfully ending that task.

    Partying with Willem
    Information to be purchased:
    1) He can tell you, roughly, where to find the three female leaders. (This will be general directions only)
    2) The three ways to win Elizabeth's heart.
    3) The three ways to win Isabella's heart.
    4) The three ways to win Catherine’s heart.

    Each piece of information costs 100 gold or 2 workers.

    The three tasks for each girl have a number on our list (Isabella#1, Isabella#2, etc). If you are buying some, tell us which one you want. We will sort them by what we think is the order in which they can be fulfilled. This is a human judgment thing though, as the tasks are very different and not all of them are easily sortable that way. Just assume that "discover Future Tech" would have a higher number than "build Stonehenge".

    You can buy any number at one time.
    Do not combine any other trade/diplomacy actions with this gift.

    Information is purchased with a cash gift via diplomacy screen,
    or by moving workers into his capital and gifting them by the interface button.


    Transaction Documentation and Discussion
    For both purchases from Willem and gifts to the Ladies:
    Post before and after screenshots in your team thread.
    Post before and after saves to the server.
    Let Deckhand and BSPollux know by PM (or wait for them to notice your posts in your team thread).

    Deckhand and/or BSPollux will post information purchased from Willem in your team threads. They will also answer any related questions in your threads. Let us know by PM if you have a question.

    Special Cases
    If Willem’s civilization gets destroyed you are allowed to ask any other male leader for advice, but it will cost you triple the gold or workers.
    If a female leader gets dethroned you can't win her heart anymore (see ranking above).

    Allowed
    worker stealing
    espionage assisted culture victories
    please ask about others

    Not allowed
    no replaying any non-reversible actions
    no liberating cities to a civ you are at war with (except in peace deal),
    no subsidizing resource trades with AI,
    no goto mapping or flying camera,
    multiple techs from Oracle/Liberalism.

    note, we are a small community playing for fun with non-material prizes - enforcement of rules is primarily by player voluntary compliance and self-policing
    there are HOF mod checks for replaying parts of turns
    ** compliance with no begging is strictly on the honor system

    Uploading Saves, Please upload saves at these points:
    Whenever ownership of official save changes (i.e. use server for exchanging saves unless it is unavailable)
    At these dates: TBD
    Before and after "paying" Willem
    Before and after wooing a Leader
    others?
     
  3. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    "You may never 'beg' from Willem, same goes with any other leader if you ever buy info from him in case because Willem was defeated.".

    I think what you are trying to say here is that if Willem is dead you can buy info from another leader but you can't then beg from that leader?
     
  4. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    Correct.
     
  5. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    To those who wanted us to reveal the area around the starting position: Is this enough, or possibly even too much?
     
  6. astre

    astre Emperor

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    my criteria would be : uncover the land we can settled in a 2 turn timelapse.
    here you uncover slightly more but i think it would not change much and it was probably easier for you that way.
     
  7. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    As for liberating cities. Can I do it during a cease fire?
     
  8. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    too much for me.
    Takes away the fun of discovering your home area. Adds to the loss of excitement from no huts, no events, etc. I'm not sure why some people care so much about "leveling" the playing field by taking more fun out of the game. It's just a game.

    How boring would it have been last SG to see the barb Trireme in the opening screenshot?
     
  9. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    I like playing with extremes. Let us have one game with the whole map shown and then a game where you do not see a single resource in the start screen shot.
     
  10. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    Do we need to purchase #1 before purchasing 2-4? Or ever, if we find them on our own?

    Do we need to purchase 3 times for the full #2, #3, or #4? Does this mean that there are a total of 10 purchases that can be made, or is it a total of 4 purchases? If we only need to complete 1 of 3 ways to win a heart, do we need to purchase more info if we complete the first or second?
     
  11. Jastrow

    Jastrow Deity

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    Related question...

    Can we buy info from 2-4 BEFORE even knowing where the relevant AI is located?
     
  12. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    You can ask him a total of ten questions, each will cost you 100 gold or two workers to work off your bills. The minimum you need to buy is three pieces of info: One for each leader, as you can only fulfill a task you know off. Everything else is optional. I thought about forbidding you to buy info before you know the woman, but that rule isn't there right now. It's possible we decide to introduce it, still. If we do so, we will make sure you get the memo.

    I strongly recommend to get the info on all 9 tasks, but the directions are totally optional. They are basically a way to compensate for late or bad scouting.
     
  13. haphazard1

    haphazard1 Dancing Bear

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    Can we complete a task (after having bought the info on it, of course) without having met the lady in question? Or do we have to make contact before we can win a heart?
     
  14. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    That's exactly why I thought about having the rule. It seems highly illogical. But, as I said, right now that rule doesn't stand. All you need is the info.

    (hint: There might be a reason why we don't think this will happen)
     
  15. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    How can we formulate our questions?

    Can we ask things like
    "what is the third way to win Catherines heart?" (without knowing first and second)
    "What is the way to win Isabellas heart that we may achieve the soonest?"
     
  16. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    You ask for option#1, #2 or #3 for a specific leader. Like "Give me hint#1 for Catherine". And yes, you are allowed to skip numbers if you think those we thought to be 'early achievable' might be gone already, or maybe because you think you gain any other benefit from knowing the later ones first.
     
  17. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Are you saying option 1 is the earliest achievable and option 3 is the option that can always be achieved?
     
  18. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    Not exactly.
    Yes we try to sort them by availability, but that doesn't mean a smart team couldn't finish #2 before you finish #1. It means that the minimum requirements for #1 should be lower. But it's possible that it takes a lot of effort to finish that goal, or it might carry a high risk of failure.

    The 'fail save' option is some sort of fall back plan, and not really the best option. If it has low requirements it could as well be #1. You will have to decide which work best together with your style. I am curious to see how you solve that puzzle :)
     
  19. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    Me too. (I have to admit my first reaction was - ick:eek:). But after further consideration, this looks like a creative new twist. Civ skills should rule the day as usual, but our initial focus should probably be slightly altered. :hatsoff:
     
  20. ChrisShaffer

    ChrisShaffer Board gamer

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    Any chance you'd entertain a suggestion to call them women instead of girls?
     

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