SGOTM 22 - Anti-TSR

WastinTime · Oct 7, 2015

Lots of talk about spies. Not much about worker stealing.
I'd like to see 2 chariots go north. Now that I look closer, I see it is a very long trip so I can see how hard it is to commit units to this task. However, if we are sure that we are going North (or NW) for our first war, we have to get moving on it. We'll need a worker to road from our end and then 1 (or 2) coming back.

Pollina · Oct 7, 2015

PPP

Tech:
Alpha: 0% for 2 turns, then 100%, finishes t75
then 0% HBR (or whatever Darius doesn't have)

Rome:
- T73 library
- T75 chariot (send up north?)
- T78/79 spy (depending on Hindu spread and revolt)
- 2 chariots
- backup spy

HC:
- T75 worker
- T80/81 spy
- T85/T86 settler

FC: settled t68 at Fish-N (???)
- granary?

Worker1: 3 farms near Rome
Worker2: PH mine (or skip mine and road towards Hannibal?)

Other:
- revolt into Hindu as soon as we get it in Rome (unless Brennus gets Buddhism/Judaism?)
- chariot escorts missionaries NE for 4t, then moves NW-NE towards Hannibal
- Workboat moves 2N for spawnbusting, improves fish on t69 (?)
- play nice with Brennus, accept his demands (if reasonable)
- trade for happiness resources when/if possible
- HC workboat explores eastern coast

Pause/Stopping conditions:
- exploring chariot dies
- can trade for happiness resource (adjust Rome micro)
- Hindu spread in Rome
- spy dies
- something weird happens

LowtherCastle · Oct 7, 2015

Pollina said:
I'd prefer to revolt into Hindu immediately. How do you get the t79 spy in HC? I can't build one until t80 (no revolt).

We can easily get a couple backup spies until t90. That should be good enough. The difference between 80% odds (pre-EP bomb) and 77% odds with multiple spies after the EP bomb isn't too big. It shouldn't matter too much when we get the backups, as long as we can get them in place until t91/t92.

Here's a way to do it, but I don't really like it.

Code:

T67 14h worker
T68 23h
T69 32h
T70 41h
T71 50h
T72 (59h worker)
T73  6h unit 
T74 (12h unit)
T75 +8hOF wkr done
T76 14h spy
T77 20h => pop3, work 4h mine
T78 30h
T79 40h

Rather build the settler for 2 turns and not waste the extra 2 worker turns. No problem really, though, if we revolt and get our 2 missions in on T82 and T84, we still beat T85, right? Sounds like you have a good plan in mind. Is there anything else you'd like to discuss?

xpost :lol:

LowtherCastle · Oct 7, 2015

What are we planning to build in Fish? Granary? Worker? Units?

zpost

WastinTime · Oct 7, 2015

Pollina said:
- revolt into Hindu as soon as we get it in Rome (unless Brennus gets Buddhism/Judaism?)

Correct, don't get a -1 w/ Brennus if at all possible. We get +1 on T76.
Sadly we can't get the usual +4 gifting techs.

LowtherCastle · Oct 7, 2015

Pollina said:
PPP

FC: settled t68 at Fish-N (???)
- granary?

Fish-N has 3 more potential food, starts at 5gpt instead of 6gpt. Fish-NW has more hammers in the short term if we're building units, more chops, an extra mine. I'm fine with your pick.

Pollina said:
Worker1: 3 farms near Rome
Worker2: PH mine (or skip mine and road towards Hannibal?)

Do you think Wkr1 could pick up a chariot escort and start roading NW earlier, with wkr2 mining, then farming in time for Rome's needs? I definitely prefer to mine. The hammer = 2h on teh settler and we need hammers. HC is a hammer city.

Pollina said:
- revolt into Hindu as soon as we get it in Rome (unless Brennus gets Buddhism/Judaism?)

Do we really care thaaaat much about Brennus?

Pollina said:
- chariot escorts missionaries NE for 4t, then moves NW-NE towards Hannibal
- Workboat moves 2N for spawnbusting, improves fish on t69 (?)

Maybe move wb NW first, then -NE to see if Sal's scout is walking into a trap. Not sure if it changes anything for us, though.

Green light.

LowtherCastle · Oct 7, 2015

WastinTime said:
Correct, don't get a -1 w/ Brennus if at all possible. We get +1 on T77.
Sadly we can't get the usual +4 gifting techs.

In the final analysis we could gift Brennus a city when we have one close enough to him, if he has unique happies for us. That should get him into a tizzy.

WastinTime · Oct 7, 2015

plan looks good. I see a couple chariots heading north. :goodjob:

re: Fish1N
One small advantage we didn't mention yet for FishNW. We get Wine connected faster, but only after Monarchy and Sailing if we don't road.

Fish1N on the other hand will have trade routes after border expansion. No sailing needed.
It also has 2 wine tiles to work instead of 1.

But fewer forests.

I'm not at all interested in how many grass farms it could have. Hills look good either way.

Tough call. Does FishNW have more distance maintenance? answer: yes

WastinTime · Oct 7, 2015

I think we have to go with Fish1N or else we delay Alpha because maintenance is higher at FishNW.

LowtherCastle · Oct 7, 2015

WastinTime said:
I think we have to go with Fish1N or else we delay Alpha because maintenance is higher at FishNW.

NW is +1gpt till Fish is pop2. Then they're the same. NW is settled 1 turn later. I'm thinking we still get T75 Alpha but not promising without checking.

LowtherCastle · Oct 7, 2015

There's likely an AI to the NE or E since we haven't seen any barbs hugging our eastern borders, going north.

Pollina · Oct 7, 2015

WastinTime said:
I think we have to go with Fish1N or else we delay Alpha because maintenance is higher at FishNW.

I don't care too much where we settle FC. My main reason against Fish-NW was that I wasn't sure if it would delay Alpha.

LC, do your Alpha calculations account for the fact that our unit maintenance goes back to 0 once we found FC?

Pollina · Oct 7, 2015

I can play tomorrow in the evening (~20 hours from this post) if no major concerns come up.

LowtherCastle · Oct 7, 2015

Pollina said:
LC, do your Alpha calculations account for the fact that our unit maintenance goes back to 0 once we found FC?

Yes. Here's a count for NW:

Code:

T66
9g reserves
448b-274b=+174b needed

T67-68 0% slider @ +14gpt, +1bpt
T69 80% @ 0gpt +16bpt
T70-74 100% @ -6gpt, +25bpt
T75 100% @ -6gpt, +31bpt (Fish pop2 working 1f2c)

Totals: 
9g+28g-30g-6g=1g
274b+2b+16b+125b+31b=448b = 448b

Not sure if this is optimal or 100% correct. It sure is tight. :eek:

.

Mitchum · Oct 7, 2015

I'm not up at the details, as usual, but the high-level plan sounds good. Green light from me.

WastinTime · Oct 8, 2015

good enough for me too. Green light. Just play your best whenever you're ready.

Pollina · Oct 8, 2015

LowtherCastle said:
Do you think Wkr1 could pick up a chariot escort and start roading NW earlier, with wkr2 mining, then farming in time for Rome's needs? I definitely prefer to mine. The hammer = 2h on teh settler and we need hammers. HC is a hammer city.

Rome needs 3 farms until t79 to grow to pop8 in time, assuming we don't get any additional happiness. If we get Hindu or a happiness resource, we can get away with only 2 farms. Then wkr1 could road towards Hannibal starting t74. The Rome chariot or some of our warriors could escort him for a while. Not sure what we'd do while the 8 defenders are needed in Rome. I'll pause when we have to decide.

LowtherCastle · Oct 8, 2015

Pollina said:
Rome needs 3 farms until t79 to grow to pop8 in time, assuming we don't get any additional happiness. If we get Hindu or a happiness resource, we can get away with only 2 farms. Then wkr1 could road towards Hannibal starting t74. The Rome chariot or some of our warriors could escort him for a while. Not sure what we'd do while the 8 defenders are needed in Rome. I'll pause when we have to decide.

I get it.

Pollina · Oct 8, 2015

Playing...

t67:
Saladin archer appears 2N of fish. He's been spawnbusting the area east of future FC.
Zara founds 4th city
uneventful otherwise

t68:
Saladin founds 4th city
Rome before FC is settled:

Spoiler :

You might notice a rather embarrassing blunder. (research slider) :blush:

Settled FC at Fish-N. None of the AIs with 4 cities will take it (exept Darius)

t69:
Our chariot encounters a fully fortified Darius scout. The AI has been trying its best to spawnbust the path of Sal's missionaries.

t70:
Great Prophet BIAFAL (Darius, I assume)
Darius got Sailing. No trade connection.

t71:
Buddhist shrine built
Darius Writing (4)
first Saladin missionary appears 3W of FC

t72:
Confu FIADL
second missionary appears
DaGift builds archer. Still no revolt.

t73:
Hannibal converts to Confu
Zara converts to Buddhism (That's 3 non Hindu AI.)
An unpromoted barb archer appears next to the forested hill where I wanted to move our Woodie I warrior. Risk it?
Chariot finds desert gold and more stone.

t74:
Warrior survives with 0.6 health. 5/5 XP.

Chariot gets attacked by a warrior. 0.6 health. Needs to heal fo many, many turns.

Sal missionary spreads Hindu in FC. Free border pop. I hope the other one goes to Rome. :please:

Workboat finds Brennus culture.
Alpha next turn.

Now's the time to decide what to do with our worker. Road and hope for Hindu in Rome? pfarm and decide when we know what Sal's missionary is up to? Skip PH mine and send worker2 roading?

t75:
Gilga founds 4th city.
Brennus founds 5th and 6th city :eek:

Missionary 2E of FC. Still not sure where he is going.
Alpha in. Sal has Math. Darius has no Polytheism.

Uploaded.

Spoiler :

Some screenshots:

Spoiler :

Could continue tomorrow, same time.

LowtherCastle · Oct 8, 2015

Checking to see if we can gift HC or Fish to non-Darius AIs with 4 or more cities can reveal if someone settled within 9.5 tiles of that city. Still unlikely, but possible.

Buut please don't accidentally gift our cities, like I did in SG12. :blush:

SGOTM 22 - Anti-TSR

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