SGOTM 23 - Phoenix Rising

AlanH · Apr 30, 2016

Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 23 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

You can find the Game Details in the first posts of the Maintenance Thread. If any changes occur in the game settings or rules, they will be posted in that thread.

Please wait until your team leader/administrator/scribe has reserved a couple of top posts in this thread for game admin information. Then post here to let your team know you have arrived.

Good luck with the game, and - Have Fun!

Gumbolt · Apr 30, 2016

Most important rules and tips

We can only look at our thread, and only download our save. Includes lurker threads, not for us.
It's best to bookmark or subscribe to this thread, so you avoid misclicks.
If you accidently click on another team's save or thread, we must pm Alan and let him know.

All moves & actions (i.e. units moved, trades with AIs) that cannot be reversed in the live saves are final (and we must live with them if by accident).
Reloading is forbidden.

Our live game should always be paused, and ideally only the current player removes pause.
For example always pause it before uploading, for others.
You can check stuff like city tiles and change them, without saving cos those changes are not final, but it's best to do so only if really needed. Mostly we will use test games for this stuff.

Autosave must be set to each turn in your CivilizationiV.ini file (can be found under user/name/your documents/my games/bts (for me).
In the editor, search for "auto" and find: Specify the number of turns between autoSaves. 0 means no autosave.
AutoSaveInterval = 4
Set this to Interval = 1

If your game crashes and you lost non reversible actions, we must pm Alan.
Autosave will often be best to use here (and replay all actions, trying your best to copy them), but saving often can still be helpful on long turns.

If you start playing after we made our plans, but something unusual happens (or you are just not sure, and think it's maybe important)..
stopping and asking for advice is usually best. We are in no hurry. E.g. a nearby Ai goes war mode.

One mistake i made last game, fortifying an unit and then forgetting the new plan said we need that unit elsewhere.
I would suggest fortifying units like city guards only when we are sure we will not need them for a while, otherwise we can use skip turn each round until we are sure.

Cycling thru all our cities before ending turns is good, who knows what governors will change (darn those spies!).

If it is your turnset you will be expected to take an active lead in the debates and in forming a plan.

Please do not take on turnsets if you know you will be unable to play during the week. 1-2 wek pauses in the game can be quite frustrating especially if time becomes an issue late game.

Most importantly lets all have fun this game and remember it is just a game.

I am sure there are more thoughts but these shouls do for now.

Gumbolt · Apr 30, 2016

Game report.

Spoiler :

Team rota

Spoiler :

Gumbolt · Apr 30, 2016

AlanH said:
SGOTM 23 - Orient Express

This thread gives you and the Staff somewhere to post about non-spoiler issues relating to the game. It is a way of communicating to the rest of the players outside your team, and with the staff, about matters of general interest that affect your team or everyone. You can post about bugs, rule clarifications, problems with the roster etc., but please do not divulge information about your team's progress. Please subscribe to this thread so that you are kept up to date with new information as the game proceeds. If you need to raise specific issues concerning only your team, then please contact me, BSPollux or AlanH by PM.

The team lists are at the end of this post.

You lead the French people in their attempt to bring the people of the world closer to each other. Your homeland is beautiful and rich. Use this gift to build up your civilization and connect it to the far reaches of the world by constructing the Orient Express!

Your goals in this scenario:
Explore the world to find the spot labeled as "Istanbul" and the region labeled as the "Orient".
Own a city at the Istanbul spot and a city in the Orient region.
Connect your original capital and those two citys using an unbroken track of railroad.
Win the game.

To be sure the Express is safe and works properly, the whole track has to be either in your own borders or those of a vassall or a nation that has a defensive pact with you. Vassal states are enabled, but you may never have more than one vassal at a time.

Your starting area
Click for a full size image

The overall difficulty level is monarch.
To ensure an equal playing field, the AI capitals have been pre-founded and some early wonders are allready constructed. You might find some more little adjustments once you are ingame. In some areas the AI is stronger then a normal monarch AI, but the scenario as a whole is far from the last game in difficulty.

Game Options
Ancient Era Start
Normal Speed
No Goody Huts
No Events
Raging Barbarians
Domination Victory is disabled to avoid accidental triggering

Map size Standard
12 Opponents
Map: Pangaea-like setup
Difficulty: Monarch
=================================

=================================

Timetable

The Pre-game Discussion Thread for this game is now open for business.

The team discussion threads for this game are now open.

The team starting saves will be available here on May 8th.

The completion deadline will now be August 31st. Plan your game, and please avoid a last minute struggle to meet the deadline.
Please be warned, except in the event of cosmic catastrophes. THERE WILL BE NO DEADLINE EXTENSIONS.

Notes

Versions
This game will be played in Civilization IV Beyond the Sword, version 3.19, using the standard BUFFY-3.19.003 HoF mod. We do not propose to use the newer version of BUFFY, as it is not yet considered stable.

If a later BtS patch is released during this game you will NOT be able to use it to play. You will need to complete this game in BtS version 3.19 before updating your copy of BtS, or you should create and update a separate copy. See also the note about Steam updates below.

Macintosh players can only join in if they are able to run the Windows software on their system.

Steam
If you play BtS using Steam, then your BtS will auto-update to a new version which is incompatible with those playing the DVD version. You will therefore need to install the Steam "beta" version to play this game. You can check whether your copy of BtS is compatible by downloading a SGOTM 21 starting save. If it loads OK in your copy of BtS, then you are ready to play.

Rules and Procedures
Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.

Note, the usual GOTM restrictions apply: no replaying, no liberating cities to a civ you are at war with (except in peace deal), no subsidizing resource trades with AI, no goto mapping or flying camera, only 1 tech from Oracle/Liberalism.

All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Team thread is up people.

Remember we can't view other team threads until our game is complete.

You should probably bookmark our thread. I will update these posts properly later.

BornInCantaloup · Apr 30, 2016

Signing up.
Agreed, clicking onto the team threads is danger. Better get there from My Account, Subscribed Threads.

I hope we have a great time ! And maybe a good game.

Edition :
Thanks,
GMT+1 for me (France). European team it is. Well, maybe not fully.

Gumbolt · Apr 30, 2016

Welcome aboard Bic. Great to have some new faces here.

I have no idea what timezones we all are.
Gumbolt -GMT.
Elite GMT. +2
Yeahh GMT+1 ??
BIC - GMT +1.
Rusten GMT+1
Confused Counsel GMT+1
Megalurker GMT-5
Shulec?

Looking like a UK/EU time zone team.

Anyway wait for everyone to show up before any healthy debate is had.

I assume everyone here already has Buffy? I think most are BOTM players or previous SGOTM players.

We can vote on captain once everyone is here.

I assume we are all happy to enjoy a certain level of micro this game. Then see how the game progresses. Normally we ask for plans to be made. Then wait for team comments. Then play a bit later. How we play it is up to the team. Turn by turn or several turns at once. Pends on our ambition. The Ants are quite the perfectionists.

Pretty flexible on who plays when but we normally have a rota of some sort. Give everyone a chance to play.

Updated!

ConfusedCounsel · Apr 30, 2016

Hi all,

GMT+1 here (Netherlands), just like BIC, so all Western Europe (timezone) for now.
Not sure if I have buffy or some other thing, but I'll figure it out before I take any turnset.

Do people have a lot of experience with raging barbs? Never played a game with them. How raging are they exactly?

Gumbolt · Apr 30, 2016

Raging barbs can be a pain. Then I saw the 12 opponents bit. Last game we elected for Gwall. Of course this is a pangea with 12 opponents. Not sure if the Ai have been teamed up? On this basis I suspect the barb threat should be lower but not ignored. Note we start with 3 units that could fog bust here.

After T1 we can set up a test game? We could also set up a pangea test game to see what barbs might be like and when they will enter our borders.

One more thought. We will certainly need railroad. That is the bottleneck in our win date. No domination win allowed.

From previous games the teams that win normally build chariots and steal workers from the AI early on. In this game exploring will be key as we know the Ai probably start with religions, wonders and other things. All their cities are pre settled. It's likely they will get border pops very early on making worker stealing harder.

Anyway enough from me for now.

Rusten · Apr 30, 2016

Hey -- checking in. I'm also GMT+1 (Norway, Oslo).

Gumbolt · Apr 30, 2016

For fun just set up a pangea map. All the Ai were within 7-8 tiles of each other. I think on live game there may be more land. On this basis barbs should not be a huge issue as I doubt there will be lots of empty land. Without x/y coorindinates of our capital and other things I don't like making a full test game yet.

Rusten · Apr 30, 2016

Some preliminary thoughts gathered over the past few weeks. I never wrote it down, so I may have forgotten something to be added later.

Railroad is the end tech for the scenario. This is a lot of information given to us. Knowing this before doing any kind of exploring helps in knowing how to setup cities and what wonders to go for.

A good bureaucracy capital will be very important I think. Early -> mid-game science relies heavily on it and railroad is not that far away. Heavy use of the capital+lightbulbing seems ideal. I need to check the GPP preference list again, but at least chemistry, printing press and education should be easy to rush with a GS.

We're starting with a lot of river tiles which also points toward getting a huge capital early and cottaging it.* I had a size 19 capital in BOTM 103 at 1 AD -- something similar could be reached here seeing as everything is green and we have 2 good food resources. I wonder if oracling CS is a thing here?!

*Most likely we will settle 1N for more river and the grassland hill? This assumes nothing of interest is find on t1 of course.

12 opponents! Currency will be a priority here. With 12 opponents we will always have foreign trade routes available and there should be plenty of civs to sell spare resources to for GPT. If oracling CS proves to be too much of an investment or a distration then currency is another good option. While the capital is looking great we don't have early gold/gems so CS might be pushing it anyway. If we go on a rampage with horse archers then currency will help tremendeously.

This will be a pretty short game, so any wars fought should be made as early as possible in order to reap the benefits in time. This will be a cramped map though, which forces our hand early anyway. My first thought is horse archers given normal speed. Worker stealing will of course, as always, be very important.

elitetroops · Apr 30, 2016

Checking in. GMT+2, actually for me. Always ahead of you.

Re Raging barbs, main concern is that they can and will enter our borders as soon as they spawn. No waiting until there is >3 cities/civ. If there is empty land around us, we must be careful to have units around for barb defense immediately when they spawn, which iirc is when city count is >1.5 cities/civ. How soon this happens depends on how much the mapmaker has boosted the AI.

Start is interesting. I see 8 settling locations to choose from with the exact same resources (fur+wheat+deer). 5 of those can be settled on T0, the rest on T1. How to scout to find out which is best option is the first question.

MegaLurker · Apr 30, 2016

I'm GMT -5.

I think it makes most sense to move the warrior NE, the missionary NW, and the scout...south?

Gumbolt · Apr 30, 2016

One thought on Railroad. We still have to build this seamless unsplit railroad. We also have to have the railroad and land owned by us or our one vassel allowed. It's unclear how many workers we might need to build all this railroad and what time it might take. 40 tiles could take 5-10+ turns with a decent worker stack. We can gift railroad to vassels/ other Ai too.

I like Rusten thought about selling resources for gold. Currency looks strong.

We also have religions likely started in various cities already. Hence gifted missionary.

Also wonders built elsewhere at start. If GLH has been built it's worth finding this. If GW has been pre built maybe worth capturing this. Will mean AI with capitals gaining 10-12 culture a turn. In 10 turns they will have 40% Maybe 50-60% by time we build units.

Key techs could be AH or BW. Axes, chariots or HA early on will be key. I expect Oracle has been given to an AI already. BSP will plan map on knowledge we will try to steal workers near start. So expect resources to be tucked away.

elitetroops · Apr 30, 2016

I think it's pretty safe to assume the Oracle isn't an option. BSP mentioned presettled AI cities with early wonders built, and he has always had this weird fetish for denying players the Oracle. We will know which wonders are available once the save is out. Unless he has built wonders in barb cities, those won't show up on the wonder screen.

Scouting will be of extra importance here. The sooner we find the locations we need to railroad to, the better we can plan expansion. But early on, I still think any wars should be targeted at the most lucrative target, regardless of direction. Eventually we will have to conquer a lot and go to war with many different AI to get all the land necessary for the railroad.

Gumbolt · Apr 30, 2016

Okay we need to cover some basics before we do any more discussion on game.

Need to vote in a captain. I am happy to write up our game report on front page. Need someone to do a rota and keep game going here. Pends what style of leadership we want here. Not sure if Elite wants a chance to lead this game or if BIC fancys showing off his greater worth. Otherwise I can try to keep the show rolling. This should be voted on really.

Other thought is how we want to play this? Whilst I would like to play for gold, what is more important is having a happy, fun thread and a positive vibe here. Sure the game may not always go our way but we have to accept the occasional misclick or bad RNG will happen at some point. Inevitable over 3-4 months.

Do we play turn by turn or do mini sets and play more slower during key wars or key stages of the game?

Are we all happy with a plan and play style of play?? Obviously if were aiming for gold more detail is needed at times. On previous games if we had 3-4 players around we may play on if a plan is agreed. I doubt for one second we will wait for all players to agree actions. Majority rules or we go by those with the best experience?

For me I would like to try to keep the gaming hours during the day where possible (For me normally 5pm-12am on weekdays.). Albeit players can play whenever they have time to do so. I don't intend any 1-4am sessions here on my part.

Any thoughts would be great. This is a team game and we should start as we intend to finish. As a team.

I would also like to suggest we do a Plastic Duck style how game will happen guide. Which VC and what win dates to expect.

yyeah · Apr 30, 2016

Hi everyone GMT +1 here.

Iam lacking with time a bit lately, so iam sry if i wont be that much active in begining.

About game plan i agree that reaching 2 early milestones asap will be key to victory (Currency and CS ) + lightbulb lets say... with GS's to Chemistry, maybe we can mange to have 1 GE and lightbulb RR as well :dunno:

. I dont remember GP Preferences right now.

Full out war only with HA's i think we all agree with that, but allso v importand thing will be to scout where Orient is so we can choose our target properly.

BornInCantaloup · Apr 30, 2016

Aye, aye, some good points all around.

Gumbolt said:
Need to vote in a captain. I am happy to write up our game report on front page. Need someone to do a rota and keep game going here. Pends what style of leadership we want here. Not sure if Elite wants a chance to lead this game or if BIC fancys showing off his greater worth. Otherwise I can try to keep the show rolling.

Oh, I'm not volunteering for captainship. I'd be most happy with either you or elite as a captain.

As to how we want the game to go.
Different people have different kind of fun.

Here's mine fun :
I'm not really interested in the result, aka the competition. But I do like a good challenge.
So... if we can play a good game, I'll be happier. But of more importance to me will be the atmosphere. Friendly thread is best.

As for SGs :
Playtesting is what I like the most, maybe. Looking for micro.
I'm bad at setting up a test game, but I can update one, and I sure can chain some rounds of testing.
Other than that, I'm quite used to detailed Pre-Play Plans (PPPs - describe worker moves, tile swaps, etc.).
They allow to play turn sessions with sound micro.

I'm weary of Turn by Turn play & report style. Because it might lack some mid to long term focus.
In wars, sure, pausing and asking the team can make a lot of sense. This is where it's most convenient to have compatible timezones.

I could understand if some of us found PPPs too tedious. And that would be fine.
If we don't like testing enough, then maybe PPPs lose value, too.

Decisions :
Team prevails ? Democratic stuff and all...
Active player heats up the discussion (topics X & Y need to be discussed) and retains the final say, in case we can't reach a consensus ?

As for my set of speculations regarding the map, that will be for another post.

yyeah · Apr 30, 2016

Capitan Gumbolt - my vote

.

I like how we played last SGOtM. Capitan is makeing list 10T turnsets iirc.
If there will be some hard decisions/situations, best to pick player which is in the game.
I meen like last time someone had great idea go on and play it. We dont have to allways stick with 10T turnsets this can be like minimum to keep game going

.

Iam allso v happy to play with you guys, Lets win it !
I hope we finally beat this monsters :lol:

.

elitetroops · Apr 30, 2016

What is the role of the captain really? Make sure game moves along? Decide who is to play when? Anything else. I have no special desire to be captain, if you Gumbolt want to do this.

Yes, you must write the game report, Gumby, since you reserved the post for that.

I can make a test game. Not tonight though, today is a mandatory get silly drunk holiday here in Finland. I think it's best if the final test game is made once we have settled the capital and know coordinates. But can make a preliminary test game as well.

When the game gets going, it would be great if the active player could update the test game. Play every move you did in the real game exactly the same way in the test game. This is very fast if you do it immediately, but it's a lot more work for someone else to do it later. Sometimes beakers do not match with the real game, as we get different research bonuses depending on how many AI we know with the tech. Trade route values can also be different later on. If there's problems making things match, it would be great if the player still could do the update until one turn before the current state of the real game, then I can try to make values match in the last turn with some worldbuildering magic.

Agree with BiC, most important is to just play a good game. And friendly thread is good.

SGOTM 23 - Phoenix Rising

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Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

Agent of Chaos

Phoenix Rising

Warlord

Phoenix Rising

Deity

Phoenix Rising

Deity

Deity

King

Phoenix Rising

Deity

Phoenix Rising

Emperor

Agent of Chaos

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