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[BTS] SGOTM 24 Unusual Suspects

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    PPP Ten turns 136 to 145, until peace expires

    General
    Build Catapults and infrastructure (Markets/Libraries) while preparing for continuation of war on Persia

    Cities this turn:
    Cahokia: Catapult, Chariot, Horse Archer [alternatively - Heroic Epic 17 turns]
    PovP: Crossbow, Library, Catapult
    Mound: Catapult, Library, Catapult
    Fishy: Market 2 pop whip now; catapults, Library
    Stoned: War Elephant, catapults
    EyeLand: Caravel, catapults
    PhantLand: Crossbow, catapult
    PorkChop: Market (2 pop whip when able), Library, catapult
    Clish: Market 2 pop whip now, catapult
    WorkerGraveyard: Library (whip as soon as able)
    Persepolis: 3 archers for garrisons, then Barracks
    Pasargadae: whip Granary (so no starving), Library

    Great People
    Aretas III - bulb Civil Service
    Run 3 Specialists in Pork Chop: Engineer, 2 Scientists, GP in 19 turns
    Engineers in other cities

    Army:
    Muster to attack Persia
    (if we had Engineering 3 road movement than would be Stalin)

    Horse Archer 2 heal then explore Russia and watch war on east border

    Galley1 - Ferry units from Phantland
    Galley2 - Ferry units from EyeLand
    Galley3 - North, see if land above Yekaterinburg
    Workboat - explore India
    Caravel - meet other civs

    Workers:
    Worker 2&6 Eyeland mine hill
    Worker 3 road to Clish
    Worker 4 mine Stoned hill (next, Persepolis hill)
    Worker 5 at Phantland - what? workshop cleared tile? or leave and hope it regrows? improve tile W of Phantland or hope it grows jungle? .


    Tech:
    Civil Service in One Turn
    then Astronomy at sustainable rate

    Trade:
    Sell Techs to Stalin when he has 50 gold
    Watch for other stuff

    Diplomacy
    Peace is the Way

    EP:
    Bismarck.

    Questions
    Build a Spy to investigate Persia?
    edit: revolt to bureaucracy? if not then why go CS? maybe send GM on a trade mission - on the caravel!

    Stop or Pause for unexpected or decisions
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  2. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Bummer about a GM, Trebs would have been sweet. My opinion is to definitely bulb most of CS, finish it and then immediately revolt to Beauro. I know Cahokia isn't spectacular but + 50% hammers & gold is still decent. Bulbing not only gives us Beauro bonus, but immediate access to Mace's and its an expensive tech we then don't have to research, we can also trade it!

    Definitely support waiting the 10t and DoWing Darius again. Hopefully he will move his troops towards Stalin after we make peace so the first couple of cities should be quite easy.

    Green from me
     
  3. ChrisShaffer

    ChrisShaffer Board gamer

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    What Neil said. Green.
     
  4. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    Upgrade city raider II swords to maces?

    edit, not needed if cats are doing the heavy lifting
     
  5. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    and too expensive. we need to save our cash for research
     
  6. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    I'm a bit low on time this week, but I had a quick look at the save.

    Darius incredibly is willing to trade spices to us, as I don't see it mentioned I suggest we take it, won't do us harm while we prepare to take it from him by force. :)

    I would like to grow the cities a bit. Most cities now seem to have more room in the happy department. Of course some might need to whip to get stuff out, but would do so in a more restrained fashion. PovP now is stagnated but IMO should grow too, if we want to keep the engineer I'd consider dropping the PH mine in favour of the forest and as we grow, work coast tiles. In Pork Chop I'd consider overflowing now in catapult. The market isn't that urgent any more.

    In WorkerGraveyard work the mine instead of the 1f coast tile! I guess the workers will do a second dye next (or will that lure out an archer?), what afterwards? More cottages? Are we saving jungles here?

    If we get CS, we can chain irrigate. I'm thinking that it would be great to get some farms up at Poverty Point (so it can work engineer and PH mine without stagnation). At the cost of 1 forest SE of Fishy, we could chain irrigate till there. Fishy itself, while obviously not short on food, would profit from some extra farms as well for quicker regrowth after whips. I think that one forest is not such a high price to pay, we still have most of our forests and can always build those extra preserves outside of our starting area late in the game. Alternatively we could make a chain farm path through the 2 forests N and NW of Cahokia (the city being on a hill I don't think just NW works, does it?). The whole chain irrigation business also gives our workers something meaningful to do (worker 3 after road to Clish and worker5 can be shipped over immediately; maybe worker4 can join in too). Opinions on this?

    Edit: I'm not sure all the engineers are optimal. Especially if there's room for growth, 3-food tiles are better, until the happy cap approaches in. I also see some 1f2h tiles worked that are probably better assigned to 3f or 2f1h tiles. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  7. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    I would prefer to see cities with stables stick to mounted units and get other unit types somewhere else.

    My concern with CS and Bureaucracy is we don't really have a capital that can take advantage.

    Totally bites that we got a GM at those odds, but the game always amazes me. :(

    I think we need to continue to run as many Scientists as we can in as many cities as we can. It is our science at this point!
     
  8. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    True, we don't get much now from Bureaucracy. About 5 hammers and 11 commerce. But is there any other Legal Civic we expect to run any time soon? We can do a 1 civic switch revolt for 1 turn right now. Could be longer if we grow much more. And a plus to do during enforced peace.
    I agree about irrigating PovP. I see it as losing two forests as the other tile is surrounded by 3 forests and likely to grow. True that can't irrigate thru Fishy and that path would take too long to pay off.

    OTOH, Temple of Artemis is on an undiscovered civ. GM Trey could meet them soon (or not!) taking the caravel. I would only want to do Trade Missions to the ToA. We are Philosophical, so will be getting more Great People.

    Spice from Darius for Fish

    I'm going to update PPP with more information about cities including growth, tiles and specialists.
     
  9. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    PPP Ten turns 136 to 145, until peace expires

    General
    Build Catapults and infrastructure (Libraries/Markets) while preparing for continuation of war on Persia
    Revolt to Bureaucracy soon as possible

    work improved tiles, run scientists, limit whipping, libraries before markets
    Cities:
    Cahokia: War Elephant, Chariot, Horse Archer - work 5 improved tiles, grow, run scientists
    PovP: Crossbow, Mace - work coast to grow, run 1 engineer
    Mound: Catapults - work hills, run 2 scientists
    Fishy: Library (whip when able) - run scientists
    Stoned: War Elephant, catapults - run 1 engineer
    EyeLand: Caravel, Harbor - no specialists
    PhantLand: Crossbow, catapult - 3 specs (eng, 2sci)
    PorkChop: Library (2 pop whip), catapult, Market - run scientists
    Clish: Library (2 pop whip into catapult later) Market 2 pop whip now, catapult,
    WorkerGraveyard: Library (whip as soon as able), Lighthouse (slow build) - run 2 scientists
    Persepolis: 3 archers for garrisons, then Barracks
    Pasargadae: whip Granary (so no starving), Library

    Great People
    Aretas III - bulb Civil Service

    Army:
    Muster to attack Persia

    Horse Archer 2 heal then explore Russia and watch war on east border

    Galley1 - Ferry units from Phantland
    Galley2 - Ferry units from EyeLand
    Galley3 - explore Russian coast
    Workboat - explore India
    Caravel - meet other civs, go NE

    Workers:
    Worker 2&6 Eyeland mine hill
    Worker 3 road to Clish
    Worker 4 mine Stoned hill (next, Persepolis hill)
    Worker 5 at Phantland - what? workshop cleared tile
    Chain Irrigate Cah (NW) to PovP

    Tech:
    Civil Service in One Turn
    then Astronomy at sustainable rate

    Trade:
    Spice from Darius for Fish
    Sell Techs to Stalin when he has 50 gold
    Watch for other stuff
    Don't trade CS (without consulting team)

    Diplomacy
    Peace is the Way

    EP:
    Bismarck.

    Questions
    Build a Spy to investigate Persia? (No answer, I'm against it because my spies always get caught and knowledge won't affect much)
    Did I miss anything?

    Stop or Pause for unexpected or decisions
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  10. ChrisShaffer

    ChrisShaffer Board gamer

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    I vote no spy.

    Green.
     
  11. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    What about whipping a cat in Pasargadae so no starving? I am obviously worried we won't have enough cats in 10 turns.:ar15:

    What about 2 Caravels so they can go different directions? Meeting the remaining AI is a high priority imo.

    On the spy, I would only build one if we have enough EP on Darius to revolt a city prior to attacking. I don't think we do or ever will at this point.

    Green
     
  12. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    OK whip cat in Pasar. We have 9 now and more planned. But it will be immediately useful. Nah, it would cost us 1gpt; while Granary would immediately help regain the population there. I will whip a cat there a turn or two before peace ends.

    Whip Caravel in Phantland? They go NW and NE?
    Galley 3 will explore to Southeast.

    Will play with 3rd green and whatever caravel advise is posted.
     
  13. ChrisShaffer

    ChrisShaffer Board gamer

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    I'm comfortable with two caravels. Still green.
     
  14. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Happy for 2 caravels.
     
  15. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    Plan to play in 2-4 hours.

    Having second thoughts about second caravel. Reason to meet AIs is for trade routes, right? Secondarily tech trades (or selling). So, we really need to meet remaining two when/before we learn Astronomy; but not immediately. My thought now is to estimate how many turns to Astro and how much exploring 1st cat will do. Build 2nd if don't think 1st can meet both (assuming one to NE and one to NW).
    Let Phantland grow before whipping caravel (if needed) so don't whip away the specialists.
     
  16. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    No whipping away scientists!:nono:

    I would only whip if I needed something asap or was up against the happy cap, but that's just me. ;)
     
  17. ChrisShaffer

    ChrisShaffer Board gamer

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    I'm fine with a one caravel decision
     
  18. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    ^ :cool:
    but I'm going to whip one in Mound City Clish this turn to explore the South
    2 turns from Astronomy, 3 turns from end of peace, no AIs met
    I will stop & post after two more turns (Astro, 1 turn from peace)
     
  19. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    General - did not whip away scientists, did some two pop whips;
    every turn: adjusted tech rate to get to Astronomy at sustainable rate; checked tiles worked and specialists

    t136 as planned
    t137 have visibility on Bismarck, left espionage on him per PPP; revolt to Bureaucracy
    IBT Darius offers 90g for Compass, decline
    t138 Sell CS to Darius for 55g (all he would offer) as he was one turn away; trade pigs to Bismarck for 5gpt
    t139
    IBT Temple of Solomon and SP built
    t140 oops, worker ready to irrigate but Cahokia is also on a hill! So, will do longer chain irrigation route from Fishy; two vs one forest to chop but we will get the hammers and I expect forest 2NE Cahokia to grow
    sell Compass to Darius for 170g (almost sold it to 3 civs last turn for 50 each, but they don't have the money this turn and 170 looks good)
    t141 Darius Cautious and will trade Feudalism, Darius adopts Taoism; start caravel in Clish
    t142 north caravel sees an island (nobody home), whip south caravel
    t143 meet Asoka with workboat (Open Borders); Trade Compass to Bismarck/Stalin/Gandhi/Asoka for 30/30/40/40
    t144 Bismarck will sell his map for 25g;
    caravels have moved (met Barbarian Etruscan); also moved Galley2 (and its passengers); army generally not moved;
    many city builds complete - started catapults as placeholders (to resolve alerts); Astronomy done (likewise started Engineering)
    Workers 2&6 finished with Dye at WorkerGraveyard - we need to decide if we are going to develop any more jungle tiles anywhere; if not bring them home by Galley1 (in Fishy) ; also in 21 turns WG border expands which should result in Chehalis (I visited there once) becoming ours - we want to raze it, right?
    Peace ends in 1 turn; stacks in Perse and Pasar can be moved into position if we want to attack Darius next turn
    Last I had visibility into Gordium and Susa they were only defended by 2or3 units (not big stacks from before). But did not observe any fighting; no idea if Russia and Persia have been losing units or not. Most Russian cities defended like the last two I labeled: archer, 1or2axes, spear.

    kcd is up?
    http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Unusual_Suspects_SG024_AD0680_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
    Spoiler Turn Log :
    Here is your Session Turn Log from 520 AD to 680 AD:

    Turn 136, 520 AD: You have discovered Civil Service!
    Turn 136, 520 AD: The borders of Phant Land have expanded!

    Turn 137, 540 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
    Turn 137, 540 AD: Sitting Bull adopts Bureaucracy!
    Turn 137, 540 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

    Turn 138, 560 AD: You have trained a War Elephant in Stoned. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
    Turn 138, 560 AD: You have trained a Caravel in Eye Land. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
    Turn 138, 560 AD: You have constructed a Library in Pork Chop. Work has now begun on a Market.
    Turn 138, 560 AD: You have constructed a Library in Clish. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
    Turn 138, 560 AD: Zoroaster (Great Prophet) has been born in Delhi (Gandhi)!

    Turn 139, 580 AD: You have constructed a Library in Fishy. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
    Turn 139, 580 AD: The Temple of Solomon has been built in a far away land!
    Turn 139, 580 AD: Shwedagon Paya has been built in a far away land!

    Turn 140, 600 AD: The borders of Persepolis have expanded!
    Turn 140, 600 AD: Darius I converts to Taoism!

    Turn 142, 640 AD: Cahokia can hurry Chariot for 1⇴ with 17ℤ overflow, 19ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 37 turns.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: Fishy has grown to size 6.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: Clish has grown to size 6.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: Clish can hurry Caravel for 2⇴ with 24ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 39 turns.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: Persepolis can hurry Barracks for 2⇴ with 32ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 12 turns.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: Cahokia will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: Stoned will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: Eye Land will grow to size 14 on the next turn.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: Phant Land will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: Pork Chop will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: WorkerGraveyard will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: Persepolis will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
    Turn 142, 640 AD: You have trained a Caravel in Clish. Work has now begun on a Catapult.

    Turn 143, 660 AD: Cahokia has grown to size 7.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: Stoned has grown to size 6.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: Eye Land has grown to size 14.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: Eye Land can hurry Catapult for 1⇴ with 40ℤ overflow, 4ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 13 turns.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: Phant Land has grown to size 7.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: Phant Land can hurry Catapult for 2⇴ with 30ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 31 turns.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: Pork Chop has grown to size 8.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: WorkerGraveyard has grown to size 5.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: Persepolis has grown to size 7.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: Stalin will trade Copper
    Turn 143, 660 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Fishy.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: You have discovered Astronomy!
    Turn 143, 660 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Fishy. Work has now begun on a Market.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Pork Chop. Work has now begun on a Market.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Clish. Work has now begun on a Market.
    Turn 143, 660 AD: Stalin has completed The Parthenon!

    Turn 144, 680 AD: Darius I has 50 gold available for trade.
    Turn 144, 680 AD: Asoka has 6 gold per turn available for trade.
    Turn 144, 680 AD: Bismarck will trade Copper
    Turn 144, 680 AD: Will Trade Map: Bismarck
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  20. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Good job Deckhand. Our army looks amazing.... 15 Cats, 9 WE, variety of melee..... we should perhaps move them into position this turn so when the treaty can be cancelled next turn we can roll in the both Gordium and Susa.

    Our northern caravel should go east asap as we do not have TR's with either of the Indians yet, the barb city is occupying the only ocean squares that link us. Once this is cleared our economy will increase significantly.

    We should perhaps switch the unit builds to NE (in Phantland maybe?) and infra, like a Lib in PovP and Courthouses elsewhere. Our units are costing us 27gpt.

    Do we go for Engineering next? Alternative is to go for Paper/Education, it's a tough call. Bismark has Paper but is WFYABTA with us. I am leaning towards Paper/Education as we will likely conquer Stalin with our current units, 15 cats & 9 WE are hard to argue with.
     

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