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[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    I tried everything I could think of to get Open Borders bonus, but no dice.
    Even when Gold City had a trade route to our empire's city, we did not get it.
    The -20% bonus remains a huge mystery.

    Open Borders did not seem to make a big difference in testing, but it did feel like there were more mission successes that had spy fatalities.

    If we are desperate for more points, we could subject our spy stack to an extra detection round.
    Do the spy missions with 40% bonus instead of 30%.

    But the deaths...
     
  2. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Seems to me like we have a lot of spies to burn, no? We don't do many missions before we run out of EPs.
     
  3. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    We used to have a lot of spies to burn, but after the 1st and 3rd colonies, now we have just enough.

    On T67 we have 18 spies that need to do 12 missions on T69 and T71.

    We can do a compromise.
    When we get to T69, do 2 successful 30% missions.

    If we still have 14, 15, or 16 30% spies left, go ahead and go through an extra detection round and do 5 successful missions on T70 with 40% bonus.

    If losses are heavy between T68 and T69 and on the first two 30% missions, and we have 13 or less 30% spies, play it safe and do the rest of the spy missions on T69.

    I'm pretty sure this math is right.
    If anyone is able to run the calculations, please double check me.

    As for alternate colony cities, only York makes sense.
    Swap it for Trap City South?
    Besides Gold city, it generates the most border tensions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  4. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I won't bother if there's no way to get the OB discount.
    btw, I should have mentioned I won't play this past afternoon or tonight. Check back in 10 hours.
     
  5. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    So we didn't make this ^^ OB blunder as far as I can see, but are we making a different one?
    I feel like we already proposed this and discussed it, but why aren't we creating a 3-city colony with all cities in revolt. And then gift GoldCity to the colony on the following turn with zero losses between turns? edit: Oh yea, I remember. We can't do missions until our culture takes over.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  6. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    England: I don't think we should plan to mess with any more redcoats. Just avoid having him make more.
    If we take too many losses T70-T73, Churchill might refuse to talk. We need a clean 40 war success. No losses.
     
  7. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I believe we missed a small opportunity here. We should have set up a 100 culture city that overlaps with the spy-city (GoldCity).
    That way, we could have gifted GoldCity to the new colony. For a Korean war success city, gift/recapture the nearby 100 culture city which pops borders and makes it so GoldCity can have culture missions immediately. (I didn't test this)
    All that would have saved us was the spy deaths IBT.

    :devil: However! It's not too late to use this idea (and another trick) to use an extra 6000+ EPs (Korea's) on T73 :eek:
    Yes, not 2t after the final colony, not 1t after, on the same turn.
    1) Start a Palace in Chong and whip it on T72 (also whip Globe Theatre in Yanan T72)
    2) On T73, missions in GoldCity would be slightly higher due to distance to new capital. Exhaust the Colony EPs here.
    3) gift Yanan to Korea (we can--now that it has no Palace)
    4) recapture GoldCity (borders explode to envelope Yanan--enabling culture missions)
    5) Exhaust Korean EPs using all the spies that returned to Yanan T67, T69, or T71.

    This idea kept me awake, so I got up in the middle of the night to write it down. Again, didn't test.
    Oh, but we don't have much seed culture in Yanan. I guess we don't have enough spies to use up 6000 eps.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  8. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    ^ This would be useful if we were short by only a few ministry points on that turn.
    Otherwise, you'd get a much bigger payoff 1t later in Gold City, due to the amount of seed culture / number of spies.
     
  9. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    I agree.
     
  10. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    *spills drink*
    WHAT?!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    We can double dip T73?!
    To the test cave Robin!

    Our capital does not have a lot of culture, but it does have some.
    A huge spy horde should be able to do something.

    Also, this idea could be used to burn Korean EPS on T74 in Gold City instead of Yanan T73.

    Sign Cease Fire T74.
    Gift Korea Gold City and Yanan.
    Conquer Yanan, popping borders and enabling missions in Gold City.
    Spend all Korean EPS in Gold City.

    This would be after spending all colony EPS in Gold city T73.

    The ultimate holy grail is still finding a way to force an AI to form a colony during war.
    Then we could have a new colony every turn.

    Also, if the runt 100:culture: city could have prevented in between turn Spy deaths, that would have been great too!
    Even if all Gold City spies had to perform missions during war without any open borders.

    **Edit**
    xPost with Bbp
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  11. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    but is it 1t later? or 2t later? Other than what Kait said (reversing my Yanan idea), I'm not seeing how we thought we were getting the 1t, but I know we talked about it.
     
  12. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    IIRC, I've done colonies during war. And, I think my solution to it also might solve the 2 problems with the elusive OB discount.
    :devil: For future reference. What probably works is, for example, if we had put 4 cities on Tokyo island.
    I believe as long as nearby units are on galleys, the "area" would not be endangered and not prevent the colony forming at war.
    1) We'd have overseas, foreign trade routes with the new colony.
    2) We wouldn't have any close borders negmods so new colonies would likely OB with us.
    3) we'd have no spies lost IBT and no -diplo for spies caught causing trouble.

    However, a distant colony poses a problem for our scenario. In order to gift GoldCity, instead of 4 on Tokyo island, we'd have to do 3 cities in revolt or blockaded/cut-off well.
    Then, that implies we have to do the 100 culture overlapping city and use a 4th party to gift/recapture it--enabling GoldCity missions.
     
  13. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    In my testing, with 0 military units in existence, the colony would not form during war.

    If you've seen it, I'd love to replicate it by any means possible.
     
  14. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    We had no way before to get 1T, but with your idea it might be possible.

    T74 does not do much for us, but what about T72?

    I know conquering the world 1 turn earlier is almost impossible, and Palace probably can't be moved that fast, and it cuts off all further future culture points, and a few wonders might not get get done.

    Okay, 1 turn faster probably won't work.
     
  15. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    even on an island?
     
  16. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    I don't remember exactly where the parent civ was located.
    Pretty sure it was island.
    I'll check again tonight when I have time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  17. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I don't want to give Orleans. I have a chopped chariot coming out of there which can reach Lyons T72 or Rome's Cumae T73.
    I'll maybe do Hamburg and/or Rome.

    I'm planning to try to get Europe conquering done by T71, but if things get rough I have until T73, right? Cus we can't get anyone to capitulate unless the wimps are gone by 73. I thought someone said T72 conquering had to be done.
     
  18. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    The English and USA war has to start T72 and end T73, along with anyone else we need to vassal.

    Or just England if we do USA early.

    Yes, the final euro civs and Korea can die T73.

    That should activate the capitulations.

    If it does not, we can cease fire with USA and England and hmm.
    They would not vote for us T75 if they were free.
    Let me think.

    **Edit**
    If we spread Taoism to Indonesia
    , we could form a 2-city colony T73 that would vote for us.
    It would switch to Taoism T74, and we could get England and USA some Tao cities, then manipulate our population and vote to get the AP win resolution to come up T75.

    We would lose 4 points and The Great Lighthouse.

    Anyway, I'm 99% our Conquest victory will work as planned.

    If we got USA capped and were a tiny bit short on power, we could gift USA techs to raise their Soldier count, instantly raise the world's average power, and make England more likely to capitulate.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  19. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Janisary.

    It's going to possibly harrass Xian, but only if somehow the Ottomans are alive T72. I guess the best defense value is cats? crazy as that sounds. Or just a couple archers. Quantity over quality.
     
  20. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I'll start a new Turnset post soon. I'm actually 'playing' now, but mostly playing = staring at the screen to figure out the best way to get 1 HA per turn out of the three new cities. And where those HAs go. Seems smarter than trying to chop Sistine--although I think I still can since there's no point making HAs T72 or T73. Except for our power ratio.
    Is that more important than Sistine?
     

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