[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

I'm not crazy

I agree. No matter what the AIs and WT say.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Post #3 updated. Sorry for the lag. As always, please let me know if there are any posts you use often you want in there. There are so many links now, it might be more useful to you to familiarize yourself with them just a bit. I'm trying to put them in date sequentially, but I've added some to previous ones when they're related.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Post #3 updated. Sorry for the lag. As always, please let me know if there are any posts you use often you want in there. There are so many links now, it might be more useful to you to familiarize yourself with them just a bit. I'm trying to put them in date sequentially, but I've added some to previous ones when they're related.

Thanks for keeping track of our game

 

[LowtherCastle]

Thanks for keeping track of our game

When are you playing?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Enough changes have been brought up to warrant a new PPP for the next 3 turns I plan to play.

PPP #2
Turn 30 - Turn 33
​

Turn 29 Empire Screenshots

Spoiler :

Plan going forward
100% Slider on Horseback Riding.
Horseback Riding should be finished around Turn 38.
No AI currently knows Horseback Riding, and cities that get 2/50 in Horseback Archer will be able to 2-pop whip them.
Horse Archers and the Bomber will let us conquer all AI except Roosevelt while consuming the least
This should lead to a Conquest win once we have Feudalism.

War Plan

Spoiler :

T31 - Archer 2W1S Manchou, Sword+Choko 2W2S of Manchou, 2 Chariots 1W2S of Manchou, 2 Chariots on Rice. Bomber blasts Iron Mine
T32 - If LB attacks Archer, Bomb LB and kill with Sword, 2 Chariots 1E of Manchou, Choko 1W1S of Manchou, 2 Chariots 1W2S of Manchou.
If no attack, Bomb LB and move Archer 1W1S of Manchou.
T33 - Manchou falls, Sword promotes to City Raider I and moves to 1W of Manchou if it miraculously didn't fall , 2 Chariots 1E of Manchou can grab any Workers that didn't get scared into Manchou.

Manchou keeps 20% defenses in all scenarios.

Starting Turn 31, we will DOW Tokugawa to take Manchou by force.
The goal will be to capture the city and hopefully 4 Workers.
Afterwards, we need to get Tokugawa to Pleased to trade for Alphabet, so we will be producing 2 Settlers in Gau to gift 2N of the fish and 2W of the clam east of his capital to get +3(Liberate) and +4 Fair trade.
Gifting a resource after the Cease Fire on T34 should bring back +1 "Appreciate Resources"
Tokugawa is predicted to complete Alphabet on Turn 42 or Turn 43 due to the loss of Manchou and lower slider due to war.

Down south, the Japanese Galley will remain a major headache.
Not only could it pillage a Fish boat, it could sink our galley, delaying our Alphabet by a lot, it could even theoretically conquer Hong Kong with 1 unit.
Or sink our Chariot inside our Galley.
All very bad outcomes!!
This thorny issue is the most likely to halt the turnset midway.

Will still try to poach 1 Worker from Tokyo on Turn 34 using 1 Chariot.

Spoiler :

City Builds (With Kremlin, 3 pop whips on 2/100 builds are possible, and 2 pop whips on 2/50 builds are possible)
Yanan - Build Kremlin for 12, build Settler for 2 or 3 turns, 2 pop whip overflow into Library T33. Finish Library with chop.
Settler settles 3N2W of capital for Cows+2Gold.
Mongolia - Grow to Size 2, Worker, whip complete T33, overflow into Warrior.
Beijing - 2-pop whip Sword, finish Kremlin.
Guanghou - Steal Fish from Hong Kong 1 turn to grow to Size 4, 2 pop whip Settler on T33, overflow to complete Workboat.
Hong Kong - Grow and work gems, whip Granary when appropriate, start Lighthouse.
Shanghai - Out of revolt T35, 2 pop whip Library T36, 3 pop whip Forge later, The Great Lighthouse with 5 chops

Our 7 Workers
Sheep Worker - Finish Sheep T30, Road sheep T31-T32, Move to Gold T33, Road Gold T34-T35, Mine Gold T36-T37, Mongolia not connect to empire, but gold is.
Plain Hill Worker - Move to Forest 2E of Yana T30, Chop T31-T33, Move to CowGolds City to chop Granary and then improve Cows.
North of Beijing Worker - Road T30 to waste a turn, Chop T31, move to 3S of Mongolia, Road 3S of Mongolia T33-T35, Mine Gold T36-T37, Mongolia not connected to empire, but gold is.
T34 Mongolia Worker - Move to Deer T34, Improve Deer T35-T40
South of Beijing Worker 1 - Chop T30-T31, Road Rice for the 2 Chariots T32, Farm Rice. *New*
South of Beijing Worker 2 - Road 1T to waste a turn, Chop T31, Road Rice for the 2 Chariots T32, Farm Rice. *New*
Hong Kong Worker - Mine Gems T30-T33, Road Gems T34-T35, Get on Galley T36, head to 3S of Shanghai to chop The Great Lighthouse.
Shanghai Worker - Finish Road south of Rice, then help farm Rice. *New*

Bomber Plan
T30 - In Bejing, Recon 8E1N of Beijing
T31 - Bomb Manchou's Iron Mine
T32 - Bomb Longbow
T33 - Bomb Manchou's defender

Great Spy
T30-T34 Spy on Manchou to help gobble up workers and watch Settler movements

Diplomacy
DoW Japan T31
Cease Fire with Japan T34
Build relations with Japan, Rome (good air base), and America (currently -7, oops!)
And the Ottomans if possible, good war dog *New*
Ignore the rest of the AI

Watch out for "Worst Enemies" when trading techs and gifting cities *New*

Great People
Great Spy scheduled to be born Turn 42 thanks to Kremlin.

Notes
Choko #2 near Shanghai will be upgraded with Combat I, not Drill II.
It already has 2-3 first strikes and I like Combat promos on Chokos more than drill.

Sword will get City Raider II upgrade to heal faster.
Both brawny units will heal up to max HP as fast as possible in preparation for Bismark's Tsing city, and later perhaps Tokyo.

Southern Archer will garrison 7 pop Shanghai.

Gems comes online on T35.
Gold comes online on T37.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Btw, we need to pay attention to WEs. For example, if we had gifted Churchill Gua for re-capture, there'd be no sane way to get Toku to Pleased now. (Other than liberating 5 cities... )

 

[WastinTime]

Overflow and chop into a library raises a red flag--does not sound like something I'd normally want to do. I'd usually be looking to whip a library and use the OF for something else. Is this library so important? What about OF into another settler and chop a settler. Seems like a better investment. Library gives what, 4?
(edit: just don't build a worker )

 

[Kaitzilla]

When are you playing?

I'll play either tomorrow night, or as soon as 2 team members ok the latest PPP.

Eager to see what Toku does.

 

[LowtherCastle]

PPP v3 comments

1. Toku will CF after 2t with no loss.
2. Are we going to watermill any grass river in Gua?
3. Consider the use of the cultural slider to get Shanghai to pop borders 1t sooner. (Actually way beyond T33).
4. Also 2whip a pavilion in Shanghai with OF into GLH?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Overflow and chop into a library raises a red flag--does not sound like something I'd normally want to do. I'd usually be looking to whip a library and use the OF for something else. Is this library so important? What about OF into another settler and chop a settler. Seems like a better investment. Library gives what, 4?
(edit: just don't build a worker )

Don't we want to settle toward Moscow so we can strike Moscow? There's a sweet city up there.

Also, the GSpy might want to head to Moscow after Manchou duties because Moscow was pumping out units.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Green light from me. Onward and upward!!!

 

[Kaitzilla]

Overflow and chop into a library raises a red flag--does not sound like something I'd normally want to do. I'd usually be looking to whip a library and use the OF for something else. Is this library so important? What about OF into another settler and chop a settler. Seems like a better investment. Library gives what, 4?
(edit: just don't build a worker )

Now that you mention it, 1SW of Stalin's wheat is a pretty good city site.
Gold, Silk, wet Wheat, Moscow's Cow, 9 chops, hmm

**Edit**
Getting another Worker for the city near Russia will be a pain, but maybe it will get the Horse Archers something to do/steal.

The Bomber might be free to scout for Barbs around Turn 38.

How about Settler whip -> Chariot -> Settler Whip in Yanan?
The new Chariot could guard the 2nd Settler from barbs and steal workers out west?

Do we risk barbs and send the 1st Settler past the Gold/Cow spot for the wet Wheat city spot with no guards?
Our Archer in Yanan could do it right now, but the Anger would be painful.

Could burn some food in Beijing to get T32 Kremlin.
T30 - Start a Settler in Yanan right now with 1 angry citizen eating no food.
T31 - Grow to Size 5 even though Settler was being built because avoid growth was used last turn to fill food bin, 10% culture slider to keep 1 angry citizen eating no food.
T32 - Whip Settler in Yana with Kremlin bonus.
T33 - Make Garrison Chariot until it can be replaced by a garrison warrior from Mongolia
T34 or T35 - Make a new Settler for Cow/Gold

Spoiler :

 

[Kaitzilla]

Don't we want to settle toward Moscow so we can strike Moscow? There's a sweet city up there.

Also, the GSpy might want to head to Moscow after Manchou duties because Moscow was pumping out units.

That sounds a good idea.
Stalin without a bomber support site might get difficult.

PPP v3 comments

1. Toku will CF after 2t with no loss.
2. Are we going to watermill any grass river in Gua?
3. Consider the use of the cultural slider to get Shanghai to pop borders 1t sooner. (Actually way beyond T33).
4. Also 2whip a pavilion in Shanghai with OF into GLH?

T33 CF would be great, could steal the Tokyo Worker and end the war 1 turn early.

Watermilling Gua could be done, but would have to draw Workers back down from the north if we want Wonder chops in Shanghai.

Could do a Pavilion whip in Shanghai instead of Library, sure.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Could also be Silk-SW. Adds the horse tile, more grass river tiles.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I didn't necessarily mean Shanghai pavilion instead of the library. I was thinking and. Max OF into the GLH. One is to quickly pop borders and into forge, then lh, as you were saying, the other for max OF to speed along GLH.

 

[WastinTime]

Could also be Silk-SW. Adds the horse tile, more grass river tiles.

I would also consider Wheat-E. It's got a horse/gold too and even incense if that matters. The main reason I was considering this location is to cover more land tiles for domination. But I suppose domination isn't really our concern.
Moscow has absolutely nothing to work except that cow, so sharing the cow with our wheat city is not very productive.

I suppose the forests are the real selling point of the other wheat options.

 

[WastinTime]

And Wheat-2N would have GLH trade rts.

 

[LowtherCastle]

And Wheat-2N would have GLH trade rts.

Yes. What's better, two TRs or the gold mine?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Watermilling Gua could be done, but would have to draw Workers back down from the north if we want Wonder chops in Shanghai.

Could do a Pavilion whip in Shanghai instead of Library, sure.

Pre-forge, the GLH requires only 4 maxOFs from 50h builds, such as pavilion+galley+2 HAs or pav+3 HAs. Even a 60h worker could be used, since it'll maxOF at 12h (right?). I haven't done the calcs but I suspect we could even throw a settler in there with only a couple turns of hammer input first. The forge build screws up the maxOF 50h 2whips and delays GLH.

I'm wondering if at this point it isn't better for us to use wkr-turns to improve resource tiles and build roads to Moscow, than chops. Note that we'll need the marbel pretty soon too, if we're going to create some failgold.

 

[WastinTime]

Yes. What's better, two TRs or the gold mine?

TRs for sure.
TRs start working on the turn you settle. Goldmine could be ~20 turns later by the time you whip a granary and/or grow back to size 3. So you'd be 80 behind after 20 turns. It will take the gold mine 20-30 more turns to make up that difference (depending on whether it's on a river--I don't recall).
Working the gold mine also kills growth which kills production. Work a grass farm instead.

improve resource tiles and build roads to Moscow, than chops.

yea, unless it's a granary or something that really adds value. Move away from chopping.