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[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    uploaded (unpaused save...be careful). I might not be understanding wonder whipping. I never do that. I'll need a test to be comfortable continuing.
     
  2. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Thanks! :D

    PR close to winning?
    They must have had the same idea as us. :crazyeye:
     
  3. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Save looks good WT :)

    England got a 3rd city somewhere.

    France is really on the ropes, but they are making a last stand in their northern city with Sword, Axe, Archer.
    With capital and Buddhism for ?? turns, it will probably pop 20% borders before we can finish him off.
    5 Horse Archer + Chariot feels a bit weak if he is gonna whip another Archer.
    This might be that rare case where 1 Horse Archer with Shock is able to attack the Sword on top?
    Send one of the weaker Horse Archers back from near Rome to help finish off France?
    Ottomans have a lot of Horse headed their way, especially from St. Petersburg and that new city.
    1 more chop and it gets a 2nd Horse Archer.

    Nice work grabbing that Settler before it could cause trouble.
    And seamlessly moving the Bomber back to Antium.

    I see Great Library is going up in Shanghai.
    Send its Horse Archer up to Trap City NE?
    It could use a 3rd attacker in case we get Sitting Bull.

    I like how you sped up Colossus! :D
    Let's see, 2-pop whip Forge, build :culture: with the Forge in queue, that will pop borders and finish Forge at the same time.
    Pull down 4 Workers and put 2 on Forest 3S and 2 on Forest 3S1W of Xian.
    Hagia completes for +50% faster workers.
    Then on T68, chop both +24:hammers: forests into Colossus, spread Tao in Xian for 25% bonus, profit!
    Plant Settler and start chopping Horse Archers. 3 Forests = 2 Horse Archers.

    The Spy situation I miscalculated a bit I think.
    We are actually going for 55 missions and 83 points, not 56 missions and 87 points. :o
    Our 18 Spies that haven't moved in Gold City need to complete 12 missions, and the horde that just arrived from the capital have to do the final 5.
    I'd recommend max bonuses for T69, and then if that goes very badly, we can use a mix of 30% and 50% on T71.
    We have extra Spies for the final 5 missions on T73 that can be used for T71 missions in an emergency.

    Everything looks solid.
    Our points should be:
    79 points Culture Ministry.
    50 points AP resident and votes
    100 points Military
    98 points Demographics
    28 points for Techs
    80 points for 20 wonders + shrines (we don't need Sistene's)
    --------
    435 points

    Don't forget we need to kill Korea and its Colony in a single turn on T73.
    We can't take the usual 2 turns.
    That means more Horse Archers for the Colony and deadly amphibious assaults against Korea.

    **Edit**
    Fixed Culture Ministry. 79 points, not 83.

    T67 Real Game Screenshots
    Spoiler :




















     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  4. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Bah, all the 4 War success cities have to be recaptured on T72 the same turn they are gifted.
    Otherwise, USA or England forms a colony. >_<

    That's like 8 horse units, who will all be busy killing Rome and France on T72.
    Perhaps Chariots and those fresh forest runt cities we have up north can serve 1 last purpose.

    England and USA are both 1 city away from not accepting any of our western cities I think.
     
  5. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    We can get the extra 8pts for diplo. 27pts is quite a bit of contingency... but I guess it's a real stretch getting everything done any earlier? Since you've done the calcs, Kait, can you give us an estimate of culture points we would have at every turn?

    Edit: xpost
     
  6. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    Fail gold: I count about 143g for Chichen Itza and 534g for Hagia Sophia. When are we supposed to finish Chichen in Beijing (I also don't understand the wonder whip mechanics).
    If we can cash in on all that, we are comfortably finishing Feudalism + Compass on T71.

    We can
    Do we have a list of all cities they have previously owned? Chong/NY and York are obvious, but we have also given Gua to England before, I think. :think:
    Edit: or does it have to be the same 4 cities for both civs?
     
  7. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Crap, if we had 1 -50% bonus survivor on T69, we could do 7 missions, but it looks like we will get 6. >_<
    About 200:espionage: short? meh oh well, the calculations are too tricky for me to be sure.

    Right now we have 38 successful missions and 51,000:culture: in Gold City.
    On T69, we will complete 6 more missions with -30% bonuses to get 68,500:culture:
    On T71, we will complete 6 more missions with -50% bonuses to get 91,700:culture:
    On T73, we will complete 5 more missions with -50% bonuses to get 117,000:culture:

    Combined with +2000:culture: from our other cities, we can expect:
    T69 - 47 points
    T71 - 62 points
    T73 - 79 points


    I knew my disaster of a 1st Colony spy results would have long term consequences. :o
    The 1st colony was the most. important. colony.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  8. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    We currently have 296pts:
    35 Cultural
    50 Diplomatic
    84 Civil
    69 Military
    14 Science
    44 Construction

    The surprising number is that we only have 50% of the world population. We are currently at 96pop, and I only count 38pop among the AIs (that is assuming pop1 for England-3 and not including America-2 and America-3). That would mean up to 55pop for the barbs. We already see 20 in the 4 American cities, so 55 total is not out of reach. They probably have several more cities in America + the ones we see in Eurasia. With all the whipping we are doing to boot, we will have a hard time reaching 100pts military.
     
  9. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    It can be the same 4 cities, as long as they were pop 2 at some point, and as long as we have 2 horse units for each city.
     
  10. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Ya, that's a lot of barb population.
    More of their cities are spawning every turn!

    Hmm, what about dead colonies?
    Dead civs + vassals should be pumped up to an outrageous number for us.
     
  11. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    I thought we established that we can only count the original civs as kills, but I did forget about the 2 vassals (Roosevelt and Churchill) counting. We'll need about 60% pop with all 8, so that should be doable, unless we really whip down.
     
  12. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Only original civs? :cry:
    What about Palace, that is 4 points right?

    Without 100 from military, our 15 point cushion keeps shrinking :scared:
    We might need those 8 extra AP points you negotiated.
     
  13. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Thanks for pointing this out Babybluepants. :goodjob:
    I thought we'd have 100% of the world's population T73, but I completely forgot about barbs.

    Military Ministry: 30 points * population% / 35% + 30 points * Land area % / 60% + 40 points * (destroyed civilization + vassal civilization )/ 8

    Right now on T67 we have 50.79% of the world population and 21.82% land area.
    Assuming nothing changes and we conquer everyone, that is:
    30*(50.79/35) = 43.53 = 43 Points
    30*(21.82/60) = 10.91 = 10 Points
    40*(6+2)/8 = 40 Points

    43+10+40 = 93 Points from Military Ministry :sad:

    We will gain population from Ottomans, but whip a lot of Wonders near the end.
    Our land % will also go up a tiny bit.

    WastinTime, I was wrong, don't raze any cities!

    We actually need population for points at the end.

    The Tao missionary for Manchou might be worth it.
     
  14. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    We need to capture only 2 of the 4 cities immediately (unless we use islands) then less, but yea, getting all 4 is safest.

    I was thinking about setting them up now or T68 with 4 gifts/recapture. That way we would know that they are ready to agree to talk and capitulate T69 or T70.
    The problem with this is that we can't gift them a Tao city, but do we need to?
    If we did, we could always CF, and gift cities again.
    Good thing I kept Orleans. But won't we have a crapton more land than that? We have a lot of cities in revolt and no border pops.
    We also get land% from our vassals.
    This is good info. I was starting to starve cities in favor of scientists. I also wasn't going to do that Tao, but now I probably will.
    Glad my team is still together this late in the game!
     
  15. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    specifically, give America Orleans first, then NewYork, then York, then Goldcity? or a Trap city?
     
  16. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Yea, border will pop, but I don't see a problem here. I have that Paris-NW archer that is going to die at 99% next turn, then I'll probably CF.
    Load up my healed stack on the wheat. Gift him a city so he sends out a defender. Crush him on DoW+0.
     
  17. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    With all the Tao spreading don't we have to just give up on the extra 8 points for Diplo? How are we gonna get 25% of the Tao population to our vassals?
    They won't take city gifts.
    We'd have to whip down to size 1 everywhere and that's no good. Also, who's to say our vassals don't whip down our gifts (Gua and Nanjing)?
     
  18. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    I haven't looked at the Tao pop percentages in detail.
    We can also revolt to no state religion on the last turn to halve our own Tao votes.
    Edit: you're probably right, though. It's a tricky 8pts to balance. The need to keep our pop up for military points complicates it further.
     
  19. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    That sounds good.
    I'd say Gold City for our 4th city gift. We have a Chariot to take it back instantly and then give it to Korea for colony.
    I'd recommend using the Warrior from Chongqing to take back New York on T68 and T69 from Roosevelt.
    Then we can use the Choko to take back New York from Korea starting T69.

    Hrr, do we have enough build Wealth and commerce in our empire to temporarily gift Roosevelt +20 or +30:gold: per turn to take Cities #6 and #7?
    I'm not sure how far our empire's build Wealth can get us
    if every city does it for long enough for USA to get cities gifts and then a DOW
    We were -105:gold: per turn 2 turns ago, and we must reach Positive Wealth Per Turn before we can gift it away for a moment.

    I'm happy with your idea to get Capitulations waiting for us. :)
    We can hold off accepting until we are sure we don't need AP.
    Keeping Gua and Nanjing is a lot of population.
    So not gifting them a single Tao city is acceptable.
    We can Cease Fire and do it again if we need to, ya.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  20. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I'm actually about 1 hammer short of completing it T70 without whipping :mad:, so I could whip it for T70 complete.
    Or we could simply delay it 1t. In fact, we can skip Tao here and not whip and still get it T71

    Where else could Tao go? Maybe Ankara (10 forests) and do Sistine. I was thinking I could get MoM somewhere else (like Yemen?) Or put GLib back in Yemen and do MoM in Shanghai. I didn't start it yet. I need to do my wonder testing today before playing on.

    I actually have two catapults that can do this job. They can sit at NewYork-1S and they won't teleport :thumbsup: because it's English culture.
    btw, this spot is not threatening Mumbai either.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018

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