LowtherCastle
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Btw, I ran a test, not for barbs, but happened to notice a ton of barb galleys already on T18, so that's partly why I'm pushing for defogging the southern island area.
[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Where exactly are you proposing to recon? I was thinking of doing 2 recons for the north, NE followed by NW. I’d like to go as far NE as possible, on the off chance that we can see both of Toku’s cities.
Or, we do what you suggested yesterday and scout Mongolia - Moscow with the spy. We recon Toku, recon Roosy, then rebase to Gua or HK. I need to see if we can recon Bombay from Gua...
The other area I would have liked to scout sooner rather than later is just west of Yan’an. We’ve seen some really generous city sites so far, and I wonder if there is something we want to grab early over there, maybe with the gold. I would have prioritized that over the islands, but your arguments make sense, too. If there are nice islands to be had, and we capture the AI coastal cities, GLH could be really powerful here.
If we are ok with all workers first, I would like to play a short set tonight or tomorrow morning. 4-5t, but maybe less if I find something interesting.
green light
Sounds good.
LowtherCastle
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green light
bbp, to me workers are super high priority so I'd like to see into the nearby AI cities asap. You do what you think works best.
could you pls save the file to the sgotm site each turn before hitting enter so we can make calcs as needed? that way you can just focus on playing the turn.
bbp, to me workers are super high priority so I'd like to see into the nearby AI cities asap. You do what you think works best.
could you pls save the file to the sgotm site each turn before hitting enter so we can make calcs as needed? that way you can just focus on playing the turn.
What do we do with ep's? Stalin?
LowtherCastle
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Roosy's city is closest to our capital. Plus, he and Bismarck like us the best. hidden = 0.
I wouldn't look at it that way. We'll capture any good cities near us. I doubt we will use an enemy city for culture. We'll stack spies in our city and gift it.
Or maybe that's what you're saying. We assume Roosy survives late since he's in the new world. He will always take back his previous city. Even if he gets huge over there and we don't get Astronomy. So, yea, put EPs on Roos for now.
Turnset 1 Report: T0-T4 (2000-1840 BC)
T1 - 1960 BC:
Toku's second city Manchou is isolated, only ice/tundra to the north of it and nothing to the east. No idea where his capital is.
No AI revolts.
DG is WE of Churchill, Churchill WE of DG and Toku.
T2 - 1920 BC:
Churchill/Roosevelt (Christ), DG (Budd), Mehmed (Islam), Stalin (Juda) and JC/Bismarck/Toku (Confu) all convert - 3 Confu AI, 2 Christian
T3 - 1880 BC:
Churchill adopts Slavery + Merc + OR (Banking)
DG adopts Slavery + OR
Roosevelt adopts Slavery + OR
Tokugawa adopts Slavery + Bureau + OR (CS - good call)
Bismarck adopts Slavery + OR
JC adopts Slavery + Merc + OR (Banking)
Mehmed adopts Slavery + OR
Stalin adopts Slavery + OR
T4 - 1840 BC:
Toku's capital is 6S1E of Gua on a decent sized island, there is also a large island south of India.
Moscow's borders have expanded already - is this reasonable, given 2 revolts?
I'll stop here for now. I think we have enough to ponder over. Beijing worker is ready to whip. Units have moved already this turn.
@LC
I've uploaded a save for every turn. Knock yourself out.
T1 - 1960 BC:
Toku's second city Manchou is isolated, only ice/tundra to the north of it and nothing to the east. No idea where his capital is.
No AI revolts.
DG is WE of Churchill, Churchill WE of DG and Toku.
T2 - 1920 BC:
Churchill/Roosevelt (Christ), DG (Budd), Mehmed (Islam), Stalin (Juda) and JC/Bismarck/Toku (Confu) all convert - 3 Confu AI, 2 Christian
T3 - 1880 BC:
Churchill adopts Slavery + Merc + OR (Banking)
DG adopts Slavery + OR
Roosevelt adopts Slavery + OR
Tokugawa adopts Slavery + Bureau + OR (CS - good call)
Bismarck adopts Slavery + OR
JC adopts Slavery + Merc + OR (Banking)
Mehmed adopts Slavery + OR
Stalin adopts Slavery + OR
T4 - 1840 BC:
Toku's capital is 6S1E of Gua on a decent sized island, there is also a large island south of India.
Moscow's borders have expanded already - is this reasonable, given 2 revolts?
I'll stop here for now. I think we have enough to ponder over. Beijing worker is ready to whip. Units have moved already this turn.
@LC
I've uploaded a save for every turn. Knock yourself out.
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Ugh, we lost our +3 with hongkong, right? because of Merc. Also, he could still have Communism and just chose Merc over SP. But now his tech rate is crippled. At least his free specialist can't be an artist since he's not in caste.
Yea, it's a holy city so +7cpt
LowtherCastle
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T4 Comments
Worker Steals
Roosy is the only one nearby building a worker. Completed ~t15.
Stalin's building a worker in Moscow. Completed ~t15. Presumably his second worker. Our GSpy will tell us soon.
City Captures
Hong Kong could be captured ~t22
Shanghai (dG) ~t9
Manchou (Toku) ~t10
other cities currently unattractive
Trade networks
Our river to the east will get blocked as soon as Toku's Manchou expands its borders. How do we connect Gua?
Dangerous AI Units
Just the Praet and Janisary so far.
Barb Threats
Toku's island is designed to funnel western barb galleys toward our Gua seafood. Barb galleys could thus come from three directions. That seafood will be vulnerable.
Circumnavigation
Not likely with our bomber. Roosy is far to the east of us.
Diplo
de Gaulle will become Cautious and Open Borders if he's ranked 5th or better. Watch each turn!!!
Worker Steals
Roosy is the only one nearby building a worker. Completed ~t15.
Stalin's building a worker in Moscow. Completed ~t15. Presumably his second worker. Our GSpy will tell us soon.
City Captures
Hong Kong could be captured ~t22
Shanghai (dG) ~t9
Manchou (Toku) ~t10
other cities currently unattractive
Trade networks
Our river to the east will get blocked as soon as Toku's Manchou expands its borders. How do we connect Gua?
Dangerous AI Units
Just the Praet and Janisary so far.
Barb Threats
Toku's island is designed to funnel western barb galleys toward our Gua seafood. Barb galleys could thus come from three directions. That seafood will be vulnerable.
Circumnavigation
Not likely with our bomber. Roosy is far to the east of us.
Diplo
de Gaulle will become Cautious and Open Borders if he's ranked 5th or better. Watch each turn!!!
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LowtherCastle
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Looks to me like we'll want to crank out a chariot or two from Yanan or Beijing asap for worker stealing. Maybe capture Manchou and Shanghai before Hong Kong.
Good thing we didn't go workboat 1st if it is likely to be targeted. Maybe we pretend there is no fish.
Worker steal yes. But capture no. With Deity its best to be patient. I'd rather get those with granary and improvements. Preferably size 2 3 or 4. Also, just getting a constant stream of workers is fine. I have to admit those cities are very close and nice resources. Tempting to own
Worker steal yes. But capture no. With Deity its best to be patient. I'd rather get those with granary and improvements. Preferably size 2 3 or 4. Also, just getting a constant stream of workers is fine. I have to admit those cities are very close and nice resources. Tempting to own
LowtherCastle
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Shanghai has chops for the GLH. Great early city.
Capture on t9?! Is there an instant-sword-stack cheat code I should be aware of?
I agree with waiting for captures, but Shanghai and Manchou in particular are cities we want as soon as possible. There isn’t much land available to settle, and these cities are very nice.
Maybe we could plant a city on top of the nearest gold… I don’t know what else.
With the wet corn and rice, we could probably delay the fish a while. Are we considering GLH?
We know about MT, Banking and CS now. I’m wondering how quickly we can steal / bulb / Lib our way to cavalry here. Maybe there are other useful techs we could steal on that beeline? It would just be nice to send some 2-move units on a romp to Europe.
Bomber:
I would recon SE of HK, and then look to rebase west. Probably Istanbul. We could recon the area west of the Himalayas, followed by central Europe.
How do we know that the AIs are building workers? Do we want to steal from Roosy, or just DG and Toku?
Edit: xpost. I agree.
I agree with waiting for captures, but Shanghai and Manchou in particular are cities we want as soon as possible. There isn’t much land available to settle, and these cities are very nice.
Maybe we could plant a city on top of the nearest gold… I don’t know what else.
With the wet corn and rice, we could probably delay the fish a while. Are we considering GLH?
We know about MT, Banking and CS now. I’m wondering how quickly we can steal / bulb / Lib our way to cavalry here. Maybe there are other useful techs we could steal on that beeline? It would just be nice to send some 2-move units on a romp to Europe.
Bomber:
I would recon SE of HK, and then look to rebase west. Probably Istanbul. We could recon the area west of the Himalayas, followed by central Europe.
How do we know that the AIs are building workers? Do we want to steal from Roosy, or just DG and Toku?
Edit: xpost. I agree.
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LowtherCastle
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That's the soonest those cities are pop2 (no auto-raze).
Especially significant for Hong Kong.I'd say definitely, especially with SP. But where?
Definitely agree with SE of HK because we want to verify Astro. We can't trade resources until we have a trade network to AI capitals. Do we do this from the south or north? If there's an Africa, south may be impossible by bomber recon.
Build Production from the espionage screen. AIs are either building something at 1hpt (could be 2hpt but isn't right now) or 4f-hpt. dG and Toku aren't building workers now. Only Roosy and Stalin (at Moscow). I'm inclined to steal Roosy and Stalin but I could be argued out of Roosy.
This game feels so exciting and mysterious.
Why are Ottomans so weak?
They are so weak they should not even exist without their precious gunpowder unit!
1) The 1st thing our Workers in capital and Beijing should do is .. chop a 2nd Worker.
We have +35% production bonus for Workers, and Math chops are available.
Watermills on Flood plains take silly amounts of Worker Turns.
That first fat food improvement will be two turns slower, but every improvement and chop after that will be way faster.
2) We should keep building that Fish Workboat, and forget about that clam for a very long time.
Fish is a strong improvement, and when we build a Galley it can defend the fish improvement with Bomber blasting the kittens out of barb Galleys. (-50% damage vs. naval units means we'll have to bomb twice)
Toku's island capital south of Gau will also theoretically defend against barb boats.
3) Sign Open Borders with Ottomans.
4) When to switch to Taoism for +1
?
Ideally would be before the 1st Worker improvements finish, but different religious penalties would mess up the France Open Borders hopes, requiring us to build roads near Gau to connect it to empire.
Hmmm
5) Organized Religion?
Most times it is no-brainer when we have religion available, but it just costs money unless we are running Tao and building buildings.
Would get a tiny bit more hammers out of Granary whip, but the cost every turn in
ugh
6) We can totally build a nice city for Gold 3N2W of our capital.
+4
Cow, a few flood plains stolen from food rich capital, and 2 Golds.
And once it connected Gold to capital, it would get religion spread very fast for another +1
7) Tokugawa has fur!!!
What a fine city Manchou is.
I'm fine with our 1st city conquest being either Manchou or Hong Kong now.
8) DeGaulle's city Shanghai is indeed good for The Great Lighthouse.
It's a bit agonizing because it is simply the best city to steal Workers from.
Once the seafood is online, it will produce a stream of Workers to improve Rice and Cows.
We can steal the Worker and then use the Bomber to destroy the Cow improvement.
DeGaulle should talk peace fast ( a single turn) if we pair it with gifting Gau to him to remove whip anger and gain +10 war success.
The mapmaker made him Buddhist, so even warlike civs such as Toku will not be Pleased with him, which will remove all diplo consequences to constant war.
9) Gau should be able to be connected to our empire with 2 roads.
2N1W and 3N2W.
If I recall correctly when 2 rivers are on the same tile such as 3S1W of our capital, that will form a trade route.
10) Civil Service
We can steal it from Japan as soon as we get Alphabet and spies!
Just need 1 trap city and about 400
? , but without no city razing, the city would burn at Size 1.
Would ruin Astro bulb and waste most of a Great Spy since Toku doesn't tech or trade techs much.
We'd use 15% of the infiltration and the rest would go to waste as Toku spends everything on his espionage slider to counter it.
Might have to dust off the Intelligency Agency + Scotland Yard idea to steal everyone's best tech with spread out +25 per turn.
11) My 1st tech choice remains Alphabet.
I really, really want Monarchy as fast as possible since we have Wine.
It costs 300
, so with Shrine we should be able to tech it complete uhh....
============
Nice work picking out the cities building Workers LowtherCastle.![[pimp]](/images/smilies/pimp.gif "Pimp [pimp]")
For the lurkers reading this, the best formula floating around the forums is City Production = (Sabotage Production / City Revolt) * (650 / 6)
Why are Ottomans so weak?
They are so weak they should not even exist without their precious gunpowder unit!
1) The 1st thing our Workers in capital and Beijing should do is .. chop a 2nd Worker.
We have +35% production bonus for Workers, and Math chops are available.
Watermills on Flood plains take silly amounts of Worker Turns.
That first fat food improvement will be two turns slower, but every improvement and chop after that will be way faster.
2) We should keep building that Fish Workboat, and forget about that clam for a very long time.
Fish is a strong improvement, and when we build a Galley it can defend the fish improvement with Bomber blasting the kittens out of barb Galleys. (-50% damage vs. naval units means we'll have to bomb twice)
Toku's island capital south of Gau will also theoretically defend against barb boats.
3) Sign Open Borders with Ottomans.
4) When to switch to Taoism for +1
?Ideally would be before the 1st Worker improvements finish, but different religious penalties would mess up the France Open Borders hopes, requiring us to build roads near Gau to connect it to empire.
Hmmm
5) Organized Religion?
Most times it is no-brainer when we have religion available, but it just costs money unless we are running Tao and building buildings.
Would get a tiny bit more hammers out of Granary whip, but the cost every turn in
ugh6) We can totally build a nice city for Gold 3N2W of our capital.
+4
Cow, a few flood plains stolen from food rich capital, and 2 Golds.And once it connected Gold to capital, it would get religion spread very fast for another +1
7) Tokugawa has fur!!!
What a fine city Manchou is.
I'm fine with our 1st city conquest being either Manchou or Hong Kong now.
8) DeGaulle's city Shanghai is indeed good for The Great Lighthouse.
It's a bit agonizing because it is simply the best city to steal Workers from.
Once the seafood is online, it will produce a stream of Workers to improve Rice and Cows.
We can steal the Worker and then use the Bomber to destroy the Cow improvement.
DeGaulle should talk peace fast ( a single turn) if we pair it with gifting Gau to him to remove whip anger and gain +10 war success.
The mapmaker made him Buddhist, so even warlike civs such as Toku will not be Pleased with him, which will remove all diplo consequences to constant war.
9) Gau should be able to be connected to our empire with 2 roads.
2N1W and 3N2W.
If I recall correctly when 2 rivers are on the same tile such as 3S1W of our capital, that will form a trade route.
10) Civil Service
We can steal it from Japan as soon as we get Alphabet and spies!
Just need 1 trap city and about 400
? , but without no city razing, the city would burn at Size 1.Would ruin Astro bulb and waste most of a Great Spy since Toku doesn't tech or trade techs much.
We'd use 15% of the infiltration and the rest would go to waste as Toku spends everything on his espionage slider to counter it.
Might have to dust off the Intelligency Agency + Scotland Yard idea to steal everyone's best tech with spread out +25
per turn.11) My 1st tech choice remains Alphabet.
I really, really want Monarchy as fast as possible since we have Wine.
It costs 300
, so with Shrine we should be able to tech it complete uhh....============
Nice work picking out the cities building Workers LowtherCastle.
For the lurkers reading this, the best
formula floating around the forums is City Production = (Sabotage Production / City Revolt) * (650 / 6)
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Gah, I can't believe I forgot about this.
Ya, if we can use the Bomber to unfog the world both north-south and east-west due to toroidal world wrap, we can get +1 ship movement.
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