[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Phoenix Rising

[Fippy]

I added Mumbai micro

Spoiler :

6 HA
7 Hagia + chop
8 HA whip (forest, worker pre-chop mill)
9 Hagia, workers pre-chop
10 Spy lake
11 whip Spy
12 triple chop Hagia, complete

Hagia Sophia would be out T13.

 

[Gumbolt]

Maybe JC war bribe could work out. Allows bomber to move in.

Does he actually suggest he will declare on live game? Not on the military information screen.

At least 4 turns from Berlin capture.

 

[lymond]

We should be able to bribe JC at please...i guess a trade of some sort..and before we adopt Tao, ofc

We want his gold, ofc, but may take a couple of techs to boost the diplo

Him not having metals his huge, but he does have horses.

that sounds good...What to do with bomber this turn? I guess we could run a sweep toward the city or sweep W. Not much for it to do I think and nowhere to move

yep, Bul just in range

def green on bomber taking flight

 

[Fippy]

Finally found a solution i like

Spoiler :

Yellow circle should be JC 2nd city, we can get visi on that next turn if we move a chariot on that desert hill.

If we also move our Choko as shown, we should see all tiles around the city and bomber can go there (while also revealing 1 missing tile).
We could bomb both Istanbul and Berlin

Good point lol, i think bomber can scout his own safety this turn
Also not completely useless to see if Biz maybe moved something out of Berlin.

Okay, also selling JC Calendar for 20g, and then switching into Tao after flight if nothing dangerous spotted.

Flight:

Spoiler :

No Biz unit around Antium.
But sadly a new Sword in Berlin.

Choko can take the route in pic above, and then use road on cows for movement towards DeG.
Our new units coming from Mumbai should have plenty work with JC, another settler.

1se of Iron, we dun want him to attack our valuable mounted.

 

[Gumbolt]

Excellent plan! Avoid Rome and move to a city that can target Istanbul too.

On this basis no need to bribe JC.

Double edged sword but COL might give Ai civic options. Would JC build Chichen Itza for us? Do we want him having 25% bonus? He has stone. Might distract him from units?

Chariot/HA to iron?

 

[Fippy]

Doing last checks, and noticed Mehmed has 10g again.
Green on giving him MC for that?

Okay had switched to Tao, moving on unless you want a look at save?


Elite's wisdom comes true again, 1 Archer moved out of Istanbul and Settler stayed inside.

Uploaded quickly without anything done, so you guys can look.
Logs

Spoiler :

Turn 106, 225 BC: You have discovered Theology!
Turn 106, 225 BC: Hong Kong can no longer work on Mausoleum of Maussollos. The lost ℤ is converted into 106ℴ!
Turn 106, 225 BC: You have trained a Spy in Golden Calf. Work has now begun on a Spy.
Turn 106, 225 BC: SGOTM25 has completed The Temple of Artemis!
Turn 106, 225 BC: Surf N Turf can no longer work on The Temple of Artemis. The lost ℤ is converted into 132ℴ!
Turn 106, 225 BC: The borders of Orient Express have expanded!
Turn 106, 225 BC: You have trained a Spy in Dye-La. Work has now begun on a Spy.
Turn 106, 225 BC: Beijing can no longer work on The Temple of Artemis. The lost ℤ is converted into 6ℴ!

Turn 107, 200 BC: Holy Farm has grown to size 4.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Fur valley has grown to size 6.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Fur valley can hurry Library for 2⇴ with 31ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 36 turns.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Mongolia has grown to size 5.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Tokyo can hurry Spy for 1⇴ with 20ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 24 turns.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Mumbai can hurry Horse Archer for 1⇴ with 35ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 107, 200 BC: St. Petersburg has been pacified.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Bismarck is willing to negotiate.
Turn 107, 200 BC: You are the worst enemy of Churchill.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Churchill is the worst enemy of Mehmed II.
Turn 107, 200 BC: The borders of Silky Sushi are about to expand.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Your population: 75 (42.61%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 54 (31.00%)
Turn 107, 200 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Bismarck
Turn 107, 200 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Moscow.

Biz will take cease fire, i think we should plunder his Iron and do that. Works out well, 1-movers can go 1sw around his borders. HA i would suggest 2S, chariots 1S of desert hill besides one that plunders Iron before ceasefire.

Holy Pigs should be fine imo, Toku would be incredibly stupid to not get enuf defenders.
Worst case, we have a settler near Mumbai for gift city..intended for "Sankore chop city", but could be used as last resort. Or any gift like Hamburg again.

/wave Elite
Hmm Hamburg worker i like road 1NE, it's the way our mounted will take?

Not really liking JC bribe, seems not needed.

Not understanding your worker suggestion, sorry Lymo.
HAs from Moscow go into St. Pete, then can use sheep road, and road 2sw of sheep would help a bit with speed.

Yep Gumbo.

Green on Aest to Biz for 10g, now after cease fire?
(Iron plunder gave 12g, nice)

I have set construction, for river movement first now.
Seems best.

Chariot at Istanbul i would move 2n1w, for worker steal next turn.
Chariot in Moscow could go 3sw, or into St. Pete like others.
Uploaded new with most things done, afk a bit.

Back, yup i had not done Aest trade yet.
So about our settler (at Mumbai)..
no need to settle Sankore chop city yet, but there are several places with many forests.
East of Istanbul where our units are would work too i think, and this should be an area with many workers around late.
I guess we can have him sleeping a bit?

Costs maybe, but i am not sure overall.
Could pay back with failgold build, when other cities have none i guess.

New post

 

[lymond]

green

nope..I trust you greeny green green

We trust in elite too

I think plunder/ceasefire perfect...likely get a new worker or two in the bargain later

any thoughts on holy pigs...seems Mehmed could possibly take that city in two turns, though Toku should certainly whip an archer by then..scouts may move in too

Ham worker complete a road underneath Pete's? 2XSW from Pete's ..then he can chop that city

seems the difference of 1 tile really ...i'm thinking of units coming from Moscow too or further E.
i.e., roading toward sheep is faster roading, but underneath Pete's slightly faster for units...also puts worker ultimately on a forest for chops

yep..looking at it now..it makes no difference on distance

afk...time to mange

yum

looking....

aesths to biz? or am I looking at wrong save

seems one of those PH would be good to settle..the bonus..and then choppity chop..is there any reason to delay this?

this is true..we are getting golden age hammer bonus..might as well use it sooner than later

 

[Gumbolt]

Nope trust your judgement. Always worth uploading each new turn for info if we need to check things in later turns. He might just build another archer for settler? Can't believe he would not use it at all.

Bribe JC into war before ceasefire? Germans might attack? Or just spam units.

Romans spamming city walls.

2MP CKN should be ready to catch settler if were taking ceasefire.

Toku still building factory. Ackk. If Mehmed take the city we could be in trouble. Be amazed if he whipped no units.

We might consider using a chariot to scout west using Roman roads here to see if we can guage French defences.

CKN 7 2W so it times with other units.

We can see culture of 2nd French city now. Zoom out.

Yep every bit of gold counts. Green.

Fingers crossed we can steal workers next turn if they move to iron. Yes for movement. Doubt the Ai will tech it in time anyway. We do want fued at some point but we have time.

Yep on stealing Istanbul worker too. Ideally we need to kill that roaming archer somehow or it would return to city.

Romans have another settler. This could get very annoying.

 

[elitetroops]

I'm out tonight, but seems you are doing great! Love the bomber solution!

Keep it up!

 

[Fippy]

New post, i might suggest here for Sankore city

Spoiler :

Highest amount of forests i think, and would act as road between what we already have and Istanbul roads.
PH can be skipped cos we can work that instead of plains forest for that extra hammer, city will never grow.

We can think about that some more, getting too late to play on
Today was a bit delayed cos of bomber decision, next round should be quicker.

Well..it's creating 6h = 12 failgold on turns where not all wonders are covered, 2c city tile (golden age), 4c trade routes.
Ofc we could test if it's worth settling early.
If costs are higher than 18gpt, probably not.
But if we have free workers in that area, and we can chop some failgold with enuf forests for Sankore left later, would certainly be positive.

Construction, Music, Monarchy (if no lucky trade), Feuda, Paper, Compass.
Failgold boosts come between T9 and 13 mostly, then Shweg late at 16 or 17..
but i cannot tell you exactly how much sorry

Nitey, happy you are around again after your pause Lymo.

 

[lymond]

sounds good...was thinking PH but forests should make up for that...can work rice immediately.
ugh yeah...at this stage growth not really a concern

How much more do we have to tech?

And some gold from city captures

surprised none of these buggers hasn't teched monarchy...although at this point I guess we can't expect to trade for it. Unless we luck out on a vassal peace deal

Nights!

 

[Gumbolt]

Ermmm Sankore city will increase our costs again?

 

[elitetroops]

Next turn declare on Biz again? Must declare on him before declaring on Mehmed.

Mehmed's roaming archer won't return to Istanbul as long as he is in possession of Hamburg. Maybe not take Hamburg the same turn we declare on him, instead let archer take one step more away from Istanbul. Chariot should teleport to a position from where he can grab that worker.

Our power rating relative to Churchill's is not increasing. Actually decreasing slightly lately. If we don't get to 3x his power, he'd need to be land target to capitulate. This would require we gift him some central city that he gets to keep. I don't see any easy way to make this work. Holy Pigs gift would be great, but we won't own that until we are done with the spy missions. Or would it? If we gift HolyPigs same turn we kill Toku, we would immediately make Church land target and he should capitulate, provided we have already gathered required war success and he is willing to talk. This can be tested.

Eh, we also have to gift him a Tao city... Maybe it could be the same? Spreading Tao to HolyPigs same turn we capture it should work. Another option would be to settle a Tao city 3E of Dancing . That should also make him land target on the turn we gift it. This has to be tested still, if borders on the turn of gift count towards land target. The turn after gift his borders would implode and he isn't land target anymore.

Roosevelt's power rating is currently 87k, he is no problem.

 

[Fippy]

Maybe too optimistic, but we will have many cities with nothing left to build late and can raise our power rating much by unit whips, for Churchi ?
(think i remember that Axes are very efficient, WT mentioned that in a gaunlet)

I have 2 more Tao mishes in Peking plan, one for Legendary and another for such a gift city.
Question, would we prefer another safety spy instead of #3?
Holy Farm could be adjusted to Monastery whip after Spies are done there, and get that Tao instead (close to dancing )

Would Holy Farm itself work as Churchi land target city?
Would also have Tao already.

And yup, we can declare on Biz first next turn, waiting with Hamburg capture, chariot in Moscow can do that 1t later.

--------

Costs for Sankore city are only 9gpt in my test, we calculated it's worth ~18 commerce / gpt so we are good to settle fast imo.

 

[elitetroops]

We will see what Churchill does. Problem is that he can increase his power rating very easily. Currently we'd need 120k more soldiers to have 3x his power. Every Redcoat he builds increases his power rating 14k and the amount of power we need is increased by 42k, if our goal is 3x. So for every Redcoat he builds, we need 7 axes. We can't capitulate him same turn we declare, he could in theory whip two Redcoats between turns after we declare, to increase our power rating demand by 80k. It would be a lot safer if we can make him land target.

As we have to give him a Tao city to keep anyway, we should make sure this city makes him land target.

HolyPigs doesn't work. We'd have to declare on him one turn before we perform spy missions, if we want to end our game on that turn.

Holy Farm wouldn't make him land target. Land target requires that we must have land tiles neighboring 8 of his land tiles. Diagonals also count as neighbors.

And now I realize a city E of Nanners wouldn't work either. We can't capitulate him same turn we gift, because we can't gift while at war. Turn after we gift that city wouldn't have 8 tiles that could be our neighbors.

Mumbai and York will pop borders, which gives 2 tiles. There are plenty of locations between GC and OE that would give 6 tiles. Tao gift city for Church should probably go there. 3W2N of GC would be good. Will any of those cities complete any wonders to possibly get another border pop before we cap Church? Any other better locations we could settle gift city, where we would have land tiles adjacent to 6 of his land tiles?

South of Mongolia has same problem as E ov Nanners. It's reduced to 2 tiles before we can cap him -> not enough to make him land target.

3W2N of GC also has the added benefit that it opens up more possibilities for the rest of the cities we need to gift him, in case he somehow gets a 3rd city before this happens. If he has 3 cities, we can first gift Tao gift city, then Moscow and 3 more European cities to cap him.

Like I said a few paragraphs ago, Mumbai/York gives 2 tiles, then we need 6 more.

 

[Gumbolt]

Won't he accept any city on map if under 4 cities? We could create a city south of Mongolia?

Does it have to be 8 tiles from one city or could it be 8 tiles from 2 cities?

Americans could also be an issue? He may have 4 cities by time we come to cap him. He only has Roo city so far. We would have to gift some of our main cities or create new cities.

 

[Fippy]

Did you factor in border pops we get or can create, Elite?

Orient completes Shweg at T15 i think, and has Pavillon..not sure.
GC nope.

 

[elitetroops]

Border pops don't really help us, they only push the potential location further away from our cities. I did ask about GC and OE, are they planning to complete any wonders that would cause a border pop?

Okay, with Orient border pop 3W2N of GC doesn't work. 3W3N would work. Also on the gold a bit south of there would work, would give 7 tiles for land target purposes.

 

[Fippy]

I went ahead and finished this turn, doing micro and stuff next one.
Declaring on Biz showed something interesting..

Spoiler :

Would lean towards using our bomber on those 2, so they are easier kills for mounted (1-movers cannot reach).

Other interesting stuff this turn, Roosi got Monarchy (but still annoyed) and founded another city.
Jan has defeated one of Toku's Archers (only 2 left).
Logs

Spoiler :

Turn 107, 200 BC: Hinduism has spread in York.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Roosevelt has founded Philadelphia in a distant land.

Turn 108, 175 BC: Cowabunga! has grown to size 5.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hong Kong has grown to size 4.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hong Kong can hurry Spy for 2⇴ with 27ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 47 turns.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Golden Calf can hurry Spy for 1⇴ with 36ℤ overflow, 6ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 25 turns.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Surf N Turf has grown to size 5.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Silky Sushi has grown to size 7.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Orient Express can hurry Spy for 1⇴ with 22ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 37 turns.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Dancing Nanners has grown to size 2.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Dancing Nanners can hurry Spy for 1⇴ with 30ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 26 turns.
Turn 108, 175 BC: St. Petersburg can hurry Horse Archer for 1⇴ with 4ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Roosevelt is the worst enemy of Mehmed II.
Turn 108, 175 BC: The borders of Fur valley are about to expand.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Your population: 79 (43.65%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 56 (31.00%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Orient Express.
Turn 108, 175 BC: You have declared war on Bismarck!
Turn 108, 175 BC: Bismarck refuses to talk.

If we are green on letting Mehmed keep Hamburg for another turn, i will move our HA past the city and then declare on him as well (chariot on same tile can capture next one)

We would have to be sure about those escort units thou.
Not that taking them out with bomber would be too hard, i think, and we gain a worker sooner.
What slightly worries me there, Sword and Axe are usually attack code units.

 

[elitetroops]

In my experience, when you declare right after the AI has moved out a settler party, the settler returns to the city, while the escort units get confused and do nothing for one turn. We could possibly solve this without ever fighting that axe and sword.

This turn move mounted units to 1SE of Berlin and do airstrike on LB. Next turn, unless we for some reason can attack already, chariots pillage farm and road 1SE of Berlin and the stack moves 1N. Swords and choko's arrive in the same tile to attack turn after that. Biz sword and axe can't get back into city, nor would they attack our Choko's.