[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Xteam

[Frederiksberg]

Do we still want to gift CoL to America, so he can build Chitzen? I think so. We could postpone it 3 turns hoping that he has a little gold we can get in return.
When do we want to try to steal Construction from Germany again? After stealing Calendar. But we might as well get a spy down there soon. The spy needs to be stationary for 5 turns in order to get maximum reduction on the spy cost.
Settle 1N1NW of silver? Yes, the spot is really bad until cultural expansion. That's why we need a Tao missionary to accompany the settler. The loss of the spy meant I had to change a missionary build to spy so not sure exactly where to build the missionary except that it must be in one of our Tao cities, of course.
How to fight prate NE of Manchou? Thinking building an axe. Sounds cost effective.
What is sword in Yan for? He was initially started to kill the Janissary and prevent him from pillaging but the Ottomans were gone so fast that we never had to kill him.

BTW, I read the two links on espionage culture, but learned very little except the basic concept. That first thread was an inane discussion. Think NZ suggested we look at it just to let us know what he has to put up with. More like a discussion than an explanation of the strategy. They say that you get 5 culture per spy point but there is a lot of mechanics with gifting a city with a little culture and then adding culture with spies.

Okay, if we can arrive at resolutions to above issues, I will try to play tomorrow afternoon for a very few turns.

Here is more of plan:

Trade MC (or PHIL?) to JC for Monarchy and gift it to Bismarck

Switch to Currency at 80%

Revolt to HR when needed and above query answered.

Whip HK workboat into failed Gold for Globe in two turns

Two out of Yan, Manchou, and Mumbai divert workers to chop forest for wall to be built turn before it's whipped and one forest chopped.

Delay the three Intelligence Agencies

Whip sword in Yan this turn (if wall not to be built there, then, in two turns after whipping sword this turn and putting hammers into Globe next turn, can build Science there).

Build science in: Mongolia (next turn); Xian; Beijing (this turn, then whip spy into Globe and send to Chong); Manchou (Science until wall, if built there); Shanghai

Advance military units to stage in south Berlin to bombard in 3 turns; move GSpy toward Roman territory to help with eyes on target; If there are only 2-3 units in Antium (not likely) you could consider a surprise attack at the same turn we declare. In that case we can only do one air strike (Higher impact than bombing) by advancing a unit to defog Antium and then striking with the bomber before proceeding with ground units. Our GSpy has rejoined the army and can be used to scout Roman and later French territory.

Scout with bomber WSW and estimate if units are sufficient for some to be moved to Neapolis and also NW the following turn to reveal hidden territory Rome and Antium are our main targets. Best to make sure we can take them rather than gambling to capture a size 1 city. Caesar has a 4th city we should locate. Could be to the west of Rome. As far as I remember Caesar has quite a few units but no metal ones which is making our attack easier.

Move settler and worker toward galley to found copper city. Suggest we whip a settler in Nanjing. He can be 2-popped next turn. There is also a worker and an archer in the area that we should ferry to the island to fend off barbs and improve the copper tile. Suggest to settle the copper city so that it shares western clam with Nanjing. The other settler north of Guangzhou can be rerouted to the cow/iron/gems/rice spot south of Istanbul.

Look to build an axe, improve wine, and train a missionary when possible

You don't mention the huge overflow in Guangzhou. Chitzen is an option. Roosevelt is industrious and have been building many wonders lately so I think he will go for it soon. Maybe building two missionaries back to back is more urgent? Need one for Chongquing (Big discount on steal) and for silver city (useless until it expands). Later we need a third missionary for Shanghai.

Spy from Beijing should go immediately to Chongqing. There will be a five turn delay where he needs to be stationary to get discounts on the steal. In the mean time we should build a backup spy that can be used in case the steal fails.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Great to have you with us, neil.

Feedback much appreciated, Fred, but seeking a little more.

Do we still want to gift CoL to America, so he can build Chitzen? I think so. We could postpone it 3 turns hoping that he has a little gold we can get in return. Like going delay route and building missionaries in Gang.
When do we want to try to steal Construction from Germany again? After stealing Calendar. What are you saying here, Fred? Germany doesn't have Calendar to be stolen, and you already have a spy in Tsing (just arrived this turn before you handed game over, presumably to steal Construction). But we might as well get a spy down there soon. The spy needs to be stationary for 5 turns in order to get maximum reduction on the spy cost. Understand that a stationary delay saves money, but questioning whether we want to wait that long, given our hoard of spy points and the movement gain from Construction.
Settle 1N1NW of silver? Yes, the spot is really bad until cultural expansion. That's why we need a Tao missionary to accompany the settler. The loss of the spy meant I had to change a missionary build to spy so not sure exactly where to build the missionary except that it must be in one of our Tao cities, of course. Understood.
How to fight prate NE of Manchou? Thinking building an axe. Sounds cost effective.
What is sword in Yan for? He was initially started to kill the Janissary and prevent him from pillaging but the Ottomans were gone so fast that we never had to kill him. Well, if nothing else, he can be used against Tokyo. Any problems with plan delineated below now in green to whip him into failed Globe gold this turn (and same for Beijing spy for Chong next turn)?

BTW, I read the two links on espionage culture, but learned very little except the basic concept. That first thread was an inane discussion. Think NZ suggested we look at it just to let us know what he has to put up with. More like a discussion than an explanation of the strategy. They say that you get 5 culture per spy point but there is a lot of mechanics with gifting a city with a little culture and then adding culture with spies. Will take your word for it, as the links did not provide any clarity for me.

Here is more of plan:

Trade MC (or PHIL?) to JC for Monarchy and gift it to Bismarck No opinion on which to trade?

Switch to Currency at 80%

Revolt to HR when needed and above query answered. Reiterating: anyone know if revolt turns increases in AD?

Whip HK workboat into failed Gold for Globe in two turns

Two out of Yan, Manchou, and Mumbai divert workers to chop forest for wall to be built turn before it's whipped and one forest chopped. No opinion on which two?

Delay the three Intelligence Agencies

Whip sword in Yan this turn (if wall not to be built there, then, in two turns after whipping sword this turn and putting hammers into Globe next turn, can build Science there).

Build science in: Mongolia (next turn); Xian; Beijing (this turn, then whip spy into Globe and send to Chong); Manchou (Science until wall, if built there); Shanghai

Advance military units to stage in south Berlin to bombard in 3 turns; move GSpy toward Roman territory to help with eyes on target; If there are only 2-3 units in Antium (not likely) you could consider a surprise attack at the same turn we declare. In that case we can only do one air strike (Higher impact than bombing) by advancing a unit to defog Antium and then striking with the bomber before proceeding with ground units. Not sure why that's unlikely, but Roman unit info will be obtained from bomber scouting and will attack accordingly. Our GSpy has rejoined the army and can be used to scout Roman and later French territory. Noted.

Scout with bomber WSW and estimate if units are sufficient for some to be moved to Neapolis and also NW the following turn to reveal hidden territory Rome and Antium are our main targets. Best to make sure we can take them rather than gambling to capture a size 1 city. Will err on the side of caution. Caesar has a 4th city we should locate. Will do. Could be to the west of Rome. As far as I remember Caesar has quite a few units but no metal ones which is making our attack easier.

Move settler and worker toward galley to found copper city. Suggest we whip a settler in Nanjing. He can be 2-popped next turn. Like that. There is also a worker and an archer in the area that we should ferry to the island to fend off barbs and improve the copper tile. Understand the immediate need for worker on copper, but doesn't Great Wall work off continent? Suggest to settle the copper city so that it shares western clam with Nanjing. Proposed 1N of copper. Is that not satisfactory? The other settler north of Guangzhou can be rerouted to the cow/iron/gems/rice spot south of Istanbul. Makes sense.

You don't mention the huge overflow in Guangzhou. Chitzen is an option. Roosevelt is industrious and have been building many wonders lately so I think he will go for it soon. Maybe building two missionaries back to back is more urgent? Need one for Chongquing (Big discount on steal) and for silver city (useless until it expands). Later we need a third missionary for Shanghai. Am Go for proselytizing.

Spy from Beijing should go immediately to Chongqing. There will be a five turn delay where he needs to be stationary to get discounts on the steal. In the mean time we should build a backup spy that can be used in case the steal fails.

Recognize the need, but don't view backup spy as highest priority.

Will play in a few hours if I can get a little more feedback.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Great to have you with us, neil.

Feedback much appreciated, Fred, but seeking a little more.

Do we still want to gift CoL to America, so he can build Chitzen? I think so. We could postpone it 3 turns hoping that he has a little gold we can get in return. Like going delay route and building missionaries in Gang. OK
When do we want to try to steal Construction from Germany again? After stealing Calendar. What are you saying here, Fred? Germany doesn't have Calendar to be stolen, and you already have a spy in Tsing (just arrived this turn before you handed game over, presumably to steal Construction). Didn't have the save available. Suggest to steal Construction when the spy has been stationary for 5 turns. Movement gain is marginal (Only relevant when crossing rivers). But we might as well get a spy down there soon. The spy needs to be stationary for 5 turns in order to get maximum reduction on the spy cost. Understand that a stationary delay saves money, but questioning whether we want to wait that long, given our hoard of spy points and the movement gain from Construction. Are you thinking of Engineering that gives an additional movement point? Construction only gives the odd extra movement from river crossings. I'm OK with stealing Calendar ASAP but I think we can live with Construction a few turns later. All spy points not used for stealing techs will eventually be turned into culture at a 1:5 rate.
Settle 1N1NW of silver? Yes, the spot is really bad until cultural expansion. That's why we need a Tao missionary to accompany the settler. The loss of the spy meant I had to change a missionary build to spy so not sure exactly where to build the missionary except that it must be in one of our Tao cities, of course. Understood.
How to fight prate NE of Manchou? Thinking building an axe. Sounds cost effective.
What is sword in Yan for? He was initially started to kill the Janissary and prevent him from pillaging but the Ottomans were gone so fast that we never had to kill him. Well, if nothing else, he can be used against Tokyo. Any problems with plan delineated below now in green to whip him into failed Globe gold this turn (and same for Beijing spy for Chong next turn)? Don't think so.

BTW, I read the two links on espionage culture, but learned very little except the basic concept. That first thread was an inane discussion. Think NZ suggested we look at it just to let us know what he has to put up with. More like a discussion than an explanation of the strategy. They say that you get 5 culture per spy point but there is a lot of mechanics with gifting a city with a little culture and then adding culture with spies. Will take your word for it, as the links did not provide any clarity for me.

Here is more of plan:

Trade MC (or PHIL?) to JC for Monarchy and gift it to Bismarck No opinion on which to trade? Perhaps Philo just to be 100% sure that we can get Colossus.

Switch to Currency at 80%

Revolt to HR when needed and above query answered. Reiterating: anyone know if revolt turns increases in AD? I think that revolt time grows with empire size not calendar year. But have no certain knowledge.

Whip HK workboat into failed Gold for Globe in two turns

Two out of Yan, Manchou, and Mumbai divert workers to chop forest for wall to be built turn before it's whipped and one forest chopped. No opinion on which two?

Delay the three Intelligence Agencies

Whip sword in Yan this turn (if wall not to be built there, then, in two turns after whipping sword this turn and putting hammers into Globe next turn, can build Science there).

Build science in: Mongolia (next turn); Xian; Beijing (this turn, then whip spy into Globe and send to Chong); Manchou (Science until wall, if built there); Shanghai

Advance military units to stage in south Berlin to bombard in 3 turns; move GSpy toward Roman territory to help with eyes on target; If there are only 2-3 units in Antium (not likely) you could consider a surprise attack at the same turn we declare. In that case we can only do one air strike (Higher impact than bombing) by advancing a unit to defog Antium and then striking with the bomber before proceeding with ground units. Not sure why that's unlikely, but Roman unit info will be obtained from bomber scouting and will attack accordingly. Our GSpy has rejoined the army and can be used to scout Roman and later French territory. Noted.

Scout with bomber WSW and estimate if units are sufficient for some to be moved to Neapolis and also NW the following turn to reveal hidden territory Rome and Antium are our main targets. Best to make sure we can take them rather than gambling to capture a size 1 city. Will err on the side of caution. Caesar has a 4th city we should locate. Will do. Could be to the west of Rome. As far as I remember Caesar has quite a few units but no metal ones which is making our attack easier.

Move settler and worker toward galley to found copper city. Suggest we whip a settler in Nanjing. He can be 2-popped next turn. Like that. There is also a worker and an archer in the area that we should ferry to the island to fend off barbs and improve the copper tile. Understand the immediate need for worker on copper, but doesn't Great Wall work off continent? I don't think so. Suggest to settle the copper city so that it shares western clam with Nanjing. Proposed 1N of copper. Is that not satisfactory? That's the best spot. The other settler north of Guangzhou can be rerouted to the cow/iron/gems/rice spot south of Istanbul. Makes sense.

Recognize the need, but don't view backup spy as highest priority. I think it's important. A 7-8 turn delay of Calendar is painful. Remember, we would have to build another spy. Bring him to Chongqing and leave him stationary until Calendar is cheap enough to be stolen with our limited points against Roosevelt. The spy mission has a failure rate of 10-20%.

Will play in a few hours if I can get a little more feedback.

Note, that there is currently NO spy in Chongquing. The Beijing spy is supposed to go there. Also note that while we have lots of spy points against Bismarck we only have a limited amount against Roosevelt.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Note, that there is currently NO spy in Chongquing. Yes, and no TAO either. Will try to get both there soon. The Beijing spy is supposed to go there. Also note that while we have lots of spy points against Bismarck we only have a limited amount against Roosevelt.[/QUOTE] Understood, and do realize Construction only helps crossing rivers, but there are quite a few on the map and German spy points are in abundance. Will wait five turns, nonetheless. as had not considered merit of hoarding spy points for culture..

I'm OK with stealing Calendar ASAP but I think we can live with Construction a few turns later. Follow that.
Trade MC (or PHIL?) to JC for Monarchy and gift it to Bismarck No opinion on which to trade? Perhaps Philo just to be 100% sure that we can get Colossus. Then, plan to trade Philo for Monarchy and gift it to Bismarck.

Revolt to HR when needed and above query answered. Reiterating: anyone know if revolt turns increases in AD? I think that revolt time grows with empire size not calendar year. But have no certain knowledge. Then will revolt to HR shortly as workers go about their wall chopping and units advance on Rome.

but doesn't Great Wall work off continent? I don't think so. Appreciate that info.

Recognize the need, but don't view backup spy as highest priority. I think it's important. A 7-8 turn delay of Calendar is painful. Remember, we would have to build another spy. Bring him to Chongqing and leave him stationary until Calendar is cheap enough to be stolen with our limited points against Roosevelt. The spy mission has a failure rate of 10-20%. Good argument. Not sure where he'll come from, but will try to get one there soon.

Again, appreciate timely feedback. Playing in the next hour. Will check thread before starting.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Good luck.

One more detail. Forge in Nanjing at some point so that we can build Colossus for fail gold.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Got it. Playing . . .

REPORT Turns 62-65: Planning effort seems to have been cost effective

T62: Trade Phil for Monarchy and execute plan
IBT: Barbs settle on coast south of Istanbul (with 4 lbs)
T63: Gift Monarchy to Bismarck; bomber reveals 2 archers in Neapolis, 1 lb, 2 archers, a settler and a galley in Rome, 2 archers in Antium with 20% culture; 3 chariots and a settler 4E of Neapolis; continue to execute plan
IBT: Bismarck adopts HR and begins learning Feudalism; JC founds Ravenna
T64: Bomber reveals Lyon NE of Paris and probably Orleans north of Paris; bomber also reveals Cumae 1W of horses (now pastured and roaded), so divert chariot to pillage horses in 2 turns; note that 2 archers and a settler have left Rome and traveled 2E; revolt to HR
IBT: Praetorian moves north into fog north of Manchou
T65: DOW and attack the three archers and settler now in Antium; capture city without losses, gaining granary, courthouse, and 3 workers; spread TAO to Chong; note Japan now has Aesthetics

Currency next turn along with wall overflow gold from two cities. Economy should be improved.

Unless someone wishes a pause, I will play another turn or two later tonight and turn it over to leif after that, if he has recovered, but RL intervenes tomorrow regardless.

SAVE: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG025_AD0001_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

LOG:

Spoiler :

Turn 112, 75 BC: You have discovered Monarchy!
Turn 112, 75 BC: You have trained a Swordsman in Yan'an. Work has now begun on Taoist Missionary.
Turn 112, 75 BC: You have trained Taoist Missionary in Guangzhou. Work has now begun on a Spy.
Turn 112, 75 BC: You have trained a Spy in Beijing. Work has now begun on a Research.

Turn 113, 50 BC: Yan'an has grown to size 7.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Yan'an can hurry Taoist Missionary for 1⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 71 turns.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Guangzhou has grown to size 6.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Guangzhou will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Manchou has grown to size 8.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Shanghai has grown to size 9.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Hong Kong has grown to size 4.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Nanjing can hurry Settler for 2⇴ with 10ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 16 turns.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Xian has grown to size 2.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Chengdu has grown to size 2.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Chengdu can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 23ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Your population: 75 (37.69%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 67 (34.00%)
Turn 113, 50 BC: Guangzhou will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Beijing will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 113, 50 BC: You have trained a Settler in Nanjing. Work has now begun on a Pavilion.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Bismarck adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 113, 50 BC: Julius Caesar has founded Ravenna.

Turn 114, 25 BC: Guangzhou has grown to size 7.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Guangzhou has become unhappy.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Beijing has grown to size 8.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Manchou will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Manchou can hurry Walls for 1⇴ with 14ℤ overflow, 121ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 42 turns.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Mumbai can hurry Walls for 1⇴ with 16ℤ overflow, 74ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 13 turns.
Turn 114, 25 BC: The borders of Mongolia are about to expand.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Your population: 75 (37.31%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 68 (34.00%)
Turn 114, 25 BC: Yan'an will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Manchou will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Mumbai will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Nanjing will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 114, 25 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 114, 25 BC: SGOTM25 adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 114, 25 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 115, 1 AD: Guangzhou has become happy.
Turn 115, 1 AD: Manchou can hurry Axeman for 1⇴ with 14ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 41 turns.
Turn 115, 1 AD: Shanghai can hurry Intelligence Agency for 3⇴ with 29ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 43 turns.
Turn 115, 1 AD: Edirne will be pacified on the next turn.
Turn 115, 1 AD: The borders of Mongolia are about to expand.
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your population: 75 (37.50%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 68 (34.00%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Deal Canceled: Open Borders to Julius Caesar for Open Borders
Turn 115, 1 AD: You have declared war on Julius Caesar!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar refuses to talk.
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your Bomber has attacked an enemy Archer! (-46% Damage)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your Bomber has caused collateral damage! (2 Units)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) (6.00) vs Julius Caesar's Chariot (4.00)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Combat Odds: 90.1%
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) has defeated Julius Caesar's Chariot!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) has destroyed a Chariot!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your Horse Archer 1 (Yan'an) has destroyed a Worker!
Turn 115, 1 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 5 (Yan'an) (6.60) vs Julius Caesar's Archer (5.16)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Combat Odds: 85.2%
Turn 115, 1 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 5 (Yan'an) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 5 (Yan'an) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (59/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (38/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (17/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 5 (Yan'an) has defeated Julius Caesar's Archer!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your Horse Archer 5 (Yan'an) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 2 (Guangzhou) (6.60) vs Julius Caesar's Archer (4.56)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Combat Odds: 89.1%
Turn 115, 1 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 2 (Guangzhou) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 22 (58/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 22 (36/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 22 (14/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 2 (Guangzhou) has defeated Julius Caesar's Archer!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your Horse Archer 2 (Guangzhou) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 9 (Yan'an) (6.00) vs Julius Caesar's Archer (3.48)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Combat Odds: 96.8%
Turn 115, 1 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 9 (Yan'an) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 9 (Yan'an) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (33/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (12/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 9 (Yan'an) has defeated Julius Caesar's Archer!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your Horse Archer 9 (Yan'an) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 115, 1 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 115, 1 AD: You have captured Antium!!!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your population: 82 (41.21%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 67 (34.00%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your Cho-Ko-Nu 1 (Guangzhou) has destroyed a Worker!
Turn 115, 1 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Swordsman 1 (Yan'an) (6.60) vs Julius Caesar's Scout (1.00)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 115, 1 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Scout is hit for 43 (57/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Scout is hit for 43 (14/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Swordsman 1 (Yan'an) is hit for 9 (91/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Swordsman 1 (Yan'an) is hit for 9 (82/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Scout is hit for 43 (0/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Swordsman 1 (Yan'an) has defeated Julius Caesar's Scout!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Your Swordsman 1 (Yan'an) has destroyed a Scout!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Taoism has spread in Chongqing.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Played two more turns. Captured Rome, obtained Currency and Construction, and generally moved game along according to plan without incident.

Getting late, so will provide brief report tomorrow morning.

SAVE: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG025_AD0050_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

LOG:

Spoiler :

Turn 115, 1 AD: You have discovered Currency!
Turn 115, 1 AD: The borders of Mongolia have expanded!
Turn 115, 1 AD: The borders of St. Petersburg have expanded!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot (4.40) vs SGOTM25's Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) (1.20)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 115, 1 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 115, 1 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot has defeated SGOTM25's Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai)!
Turn 115, 1 AD: While defending, your Horse Archer 20 (Mumbai) was destroyed by a Roman Chariot!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Julius Caesar adopts Pacifism!

Turn 116, 25 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Manchou!
Turn 116, 25 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Hangzhou!
Turn 116, 25 AD: Yan'an has grown to size 8.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Guangzhou will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Manchou has grown to size 9.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Shanghai has grown to size 10.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Mumbai has grown to size 5.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Nanjing has grown to size 3.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Edirne has been pacified.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Edirne can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 11ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Istanbul will be pacified on the next turn.
Turn 116, 25 AD: You are the worst enemy of Julius Caesar.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Your population: 87 (41.43%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 71 (34.00%)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Manchou.
Turn 116, 25 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 16 (Manchou) (6.60) vs Julius Caesar's Chariot (4.40)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Combat Odds: 90.1%
Turn 116, 25 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 116, 25 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 16 (Manchou) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 16 (Manchou) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 16 (Manchou) is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 16 (Manchou) is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 16 (Manchou) is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 16 (Manchou) has defeated Julius Caesar's Chariot!
Turn 116, 25 AD: Your Horse Archer 16 (Manchou) has destroyed a Chariot!
Turn 116, 25 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Mumbai.
Turn 116, 25 AD: You have plundered 4ℴ from the Pasture!
Turn 116, 25 AD: Your Bomber has reduced the defenses of Rome to 24%!
Turn 116, 25 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Edirne.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Hangzhou.
Turn 116, 25 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 11 (Yan'an) (7.20) vs Julius Caesar's Scout (1.85)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 116, 25 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 116, 25 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 116, 25 AD: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 116, 25 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 11 (Yan'an) is hit for 10 (90/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Julius Caesar's Scout is hit for 36 (64/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Julius Caesar's Scout is hit for 36 (28/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: Julius Caesar's Scout is hit for 36 (0/100HP)
Turn 116, 25 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 11 (Yan'an) has defeated Julius Caesar's Scout!
Turn 116, 25 AD: Oliver Cromwell (Great General) has been born in Yan'an (SGOTM25)!
Turn 116, 25 AD: Your Horse Archer 11 (Yan'an) has destroyed a Scout!
Turn 116, 25 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for St. Petersburg.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Guangzhou will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Mongolia will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Hong Kong will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Hangzhou will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 116, 25 AD: You have constructed a Walls in Manchou. Work has now begun on a Axeman.
Turn 116, 25 AD: You have constructed a Walls in Mumbai. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 116, 25 AD: Judaism has spread in Xian.
Turn 116, 25 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 116, 25 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Chengdu. Work has now begun on a Spearman.
Turn 116, 25 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Edirne. Work has now begun on a Archer.

Turn 117, 50 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Chengdu!
Turn 117, 50 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Manchou!
Turn 117, 50 AD: Guangzhou has grown to size 8.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Guangzhou has become unhappy.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Manchou will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Manchou can hurry Axeman for 1⇴ with 25ℤ overflow, 17ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 49 turns.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Shanghai has become happy.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Mongolia has grown to size 7.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Hong Kong has grown to size 5.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Hangzhou has grown to size 2.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Edirne can hurry Archer for 1⇴ with 17ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Istanbul has been pacified.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Istanbul can hurry Monument for 1⇴ with 8ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Bismarck has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar is willing to negotiate.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Your population: 85 (40.48%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 73 (35.00%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar will trade Construction
Turn 117, 50 AD: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Julius Caesar
Turn 117, 50 AD: Your Bomber has attacked an enemy Longbowman! (-37% Damage)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Your Bomber has caused collateral damage! (2 Units)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 14 (Yan'an) (7.20) vs Julius Caesar's Longbowman (6.57)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Combat Odds: 68.6%
Turn 117, 50 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: (Plot Defense: +24%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 14 (Yan'an) is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Longbowman is hit for 18 (45/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Longbowman is hit for 18 (27/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Longbowman is hit for 18 (9/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Longbowman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 14 (Yan'an) has defeated Julius Caesar's Longbowman!
Turn 117, 50 AD: Your Horse Archer 14 (Yan'an) has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 1 (Yan'an) (6.60) vs Julius Caesar's Archer (5.01)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Combat Odds: 86.2%
Turn 117, 50 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: (Plot Defense: +24%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (59/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 1 (Yan'an) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (38/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 1 (Yan'an) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 1 (Yan'an) is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (17/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 1 (Yan'an) has defeated Julius Caesar's Archer!
Turn 117, 50 AD: Your Horse Archer 1 (Yan'an) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 17 (Shanghai) (6.60) vs Julius Caesar's Archer (4.17)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Combat Odds: 95.4%
Turn 117, 50 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: (Plot Defense: +24%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 17 (Shanghai) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 17 (Shanghai) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 23 (57/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 23 (34/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 17 (Shanghai) is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 23 (11/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 117, 50 AD: SGOTM25's Horse Archer 17 (Shanghai) has defeated Julius Caesar's Archer!
Turn 117, 50 AD: Your Horse Archer 17 (Shanghai) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 117, 50 AD: You have captured Rome!!!
Turn 117, 50 AD: Your population: 90 (43.06%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 73 (35.00%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: Your population: 91 (43.33%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 73 (35.00%)
Turn 117, 50 AD: COPPER CITY has been founded.
Turn 117, 50 AD: You have discovered Construction!
Turn 117, 50 AD: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 117, 50 AD: Upon completing the mission the Spy 2 (Mongolia) has returned safely to Yan'an.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Shanghai.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Edirne.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Yan'an will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Manchou will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Shanghai will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Nanjing will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 117, 50 AD: St. Petersburg will grow to size 2 on the next turn.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Excellent execution of those critical turns

Seems like we have the economy under control. We are still in the red but have flexible means to avoid strike. It seems that the maintenance cap is 8 gpt for Deity and not 7 gpt as I expected. Doesn't change much and we are already capped at this level in several cities. There shouldn't be anything stopping us from continued expansion and I think we should take the remaining Roman cities and then go after de Gaulle while also settling some cities. As our new cities grow the economy will improve a lot.

I also overestimated the cost of stealing in Chongquin. It's already down to 191 spy points so we can think of stealing quite soon. Maybe first move workers towards the tiles with calendar resources and then try the steal.

Toku having both Aesthetics and CS makes it relevant to consider stealing both techs. This could be done like this: Settle a city near Yan'an and spread Tao to it. Gift it to Toku. Put all spy points on Toku for a while and then steal. We can speed things up by adding some more Intelligence Agencies.

I see that both Roosevelt and Bismarck have built settlers so the race is on for the remaining quality city sites. Roosevelt is even building another settler.

Suggest to build forge in Edirne before other buildings.

 

[Cactus Pete]

REPORT Turns 66 & 67:

IBT: Currency>Aesthetics at 0%; JC adopts Pacifism; Praet shows up 4N of Manchou; America completes Calendar
T66: Bombard Rome; whip and chop walls in Manchou and Mumbai; pillage horses; GG born in Yan
IBT: JC seeks peace; now have 200 gold in treasury; Germany has 60g to trade
T67: Attack Rome and take without losses, but retain only courthouse; prate advances on Manchou; steal Construction; note America now researching Construction; whip missionary in Gang for Shanghai

"Toku having both Aesthetics and CS makes it relevant to consider stealing both techs. This could be done like this: Settle a city near Yan'an and spread Tao to it. Gift it to Toku. Put all spy points on Toku for a while and then steal. We can speed things up by adding some more Intelligence Agencies." Alternatively, we could create another GSpy in Beijing in 10 turns and infiltrate Tokyo. What else will he be good for? Wondering if, indeed, we want CS, as it slows the bulbing to Astro, and bulbing seems the best way to get there. Question is: Will we need Astro? Also, this city-gift scenario will dramatically slow the time to Literature and those wonders. We can research to Lit very quickly now, especially if we go ahead and complete Globe.

America continues to tech very slowly. Perhaps we should be planning to take their cities even as we deal with France. In which case, do we want to gift them Construction?

Guys, you're letting Fred and me have all the fun.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

BTW, I read the two links on espionage culture, but learned very little except the basic concept. That first thread was an inane discussion. Think NZ suggested we look at it just to let us know what he has to put up with.

I forgot how badly that first thread deteriorated lol.

Good work again , hope to study the turn tomorrow.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Alternatively, we could create another GSpy in Beijing in 10 turns and infiltrate Tokyo. What else will he be good for? A GSpy is worth around 15000 culture or 10 points. Compare that to the 4 point value of a wonder. I don't think we want to spend our GSpy points unless we have no other option. We can generate enough point from IA'a to steal techs.
Wondering if, indeed, we want CS, as it slows the bulbing to Astro, and bulbing seems the best way to get there. Question is: Will we need Astro? We can see roughly 70% of all land and there is only a single city overseas. Astro is only required for conquest. CS is necessary to complete the Medieval tech era. We will be able to steal Feudalism from Bismarck and Banking can be stolen from the Caesar. de Gaulle has either Education or Guild. So basically we can steal most of the Medieval techs
Also, this city-gift scenario will dramatically slow the time to Literature and those wonders. We can research to Lit very quickly now, especially if we go ahead and complete Globe. The steal can be set up very fast. I think it's possible to steal Aesthetics in about 6 turns if we push hard. Add a few extra turns if we decide not to give it top priority. I have prepared some dot maps with possible city sites and the green (or "double gold" city in the dot map called "central" could be used as a gift to Toku. We should, of course, spread Tao before gifting because we don't have open borders. Micro: 1) All spy points diverted to Toku 2) New settler in Yan'an goes to "Double Gold" 3) Missionary from Guangzhou spreads Tao. 4) Gift city and move in spy 5) Steal. When we have stolen CS we can re-capture and gift to Rome or France and steal Banking/Guilds. For that reason I think we should keep both Caesar and de Gaulle in the game until we have robbed them.

dotmap central
dotmap SE
dotmap SW
dotmap central west
dotmap NW
dotmap island

 

[Frederiksberg]

Guys, you're letting Fred and me have all the fun.

Echo this! Would be great to have more involvement from the rest of the team. Let us know when you are up to speed and ready to do some turns. I think we should continue with short but frequent sets. Keeps the game interesting and allows us to adjust our plans as the game develops. Like I said before, without a test game it's really difficult to plan far ahead and the priorities are shifting all the time.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Alternatively, we could create another GSpy in Beijing in 10 turns and infiltrate Tokyo. What else will he be good for? A GSpy is worth around 15000 culture or 10 points. Compare that to the 4 point value of a wonder. I don't think we want to spend our GSpy points unless we have no other option. We can generate enough point from IA'a to steal techs. That's 10 points toward the 400 needed to win? If so, then I'm certainly for saving him. How, exactly, do we achieve 15,000 culture with a Gspy?
Wondering if, indeed, we want CS, as it slows the bulbing to Astro, and bulbing seems the best way to get there. Question is: Will we need Astro? We can see roughly 70% of all land and there is only a single city overseas. So, the plan would be to settle most visible tiles? Astro is only required for conquest. CS is necessary to complete the Medieval tech era. We will be able to steal Feudalism from Bismarck and Banking can be stolen from the Caesar. de Gaulle has either Education or Guild. So basically we can steal most of the Medieval techs
Also, this city-gift scenario will dramatically slow the time to Literature and those wonders. We can research to Lit very quickly now, especially if we go ahead and complete Globe. The steal can be set up very fast. I think it's possible to steal Aesthetics in about 6 turns if we push hard. Add a few extra turns if we decide not to give it top priority. I have prepared some dot maps with possible city sites and the green (or "double gold" city in the dot map called "central" could be used as a gift to Toku. We should, of course, spread Tao before gifting because we don't have open borders. Micro: 1) All spy points diverted to Toku 2) New settler in Yan'an goes to "Double Gold" 3) Missionary from Guangzhou spreads Tao. Then, need another missionary for Shang. 4) Gift city and move in spy 5) Steal. When we have also? stolen CS we can re-capture and gift to Rome or France and steal Banking/Guilds. For that reason I think we should keep both Caesar and de Gaulle in the game until we have robbed them. Follow that. Not clear from your dot maps whether you want to retain all three Roman cities. I had assumed that only Ravenna would be worth keeping. If so, then that is the one to leave alone for stealing.

dotmap central
dotmap SE
dotmap SW
dotmap central west
dotmap NW
dotmap island

Reiterating: "America continues to tech very slowly. Perhaps we should be planning to take their cities even as we deal with France. In which case, do we want to gift them Construction?

Also, perhaps we should build a couple libraries, as they will allow some fail gold with Lit wonders and will help us tech forward. BTW, how far forward are we going to need to tech?

Agree that we should keep game going in short sessions, but I have little free time for the next several days. Happy for Fred to continue, especially if no one else choses to get involved right now.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Reiterating: "America continues to tech very slowly. Perhaps we should be planning to take their cities even as we deal with France. In which case, do we want to gift them Construction? Roosevelt is not useful as a tech partner. He is paying 16 gpt in maintenance for his two cities on our continent so I guess we could prepare to take his cities after stealing Calendar.

Also, perhaps we should build a couple libraries, as they will allow some fail gold with Lit wonders and will help us tech forward. BTW, how far forward are we going to need to tech? It's most likely that we can only finish 3 tech eras: Ancient (done), Classical (Missing Calendar, Aesthetics, Literature and Compass) and Medieval (Music, CS, Feudalism, Engineering, Divine Right, Theology, Optics, Paper, Guilds, Banking). We can steal some of them (In orange), Theology we need for the AP and Music enables culture from the Sistine plus it gives us a GArtist. Going for the renaissance techs involves a lot of research all the way up to Democracy, Rifling, Corporation, Military Science). We will soon have plenty of alternatives to put fail gold into and we don't need NE for fail gold. Don't think libraries are a good investment.

Agree that we should keep game going in short sessions, but I have little free time for the next several days. Happy for Fred to continue, especially if no one else choses to get involved right now. I can play some turns Thursday. Hope that the rest of the team will join soon.

That's 10 points toward the 400 needed to win? If so, then I'm certainly for saving him. How, exactly, do we achieve 15,000 culture with a Gspy? I rely on the 1:5 spy point to culture rate reported in NZ's links. 3000 spy point x 5 = 15000 culture. We gift a city to an AI and use spy missions to add culture to this city. Then we recapture.

So, the plan would be to settle most visible tiles? Perhaps. If we decide to win by domination. Religious Victory is also on the table but domination seems the simpler one to control.

Not clear from your dot maps whether you want to retain all three Roman cities. I had assumed that only Ravenna would be worth keeping. If so, then that is the one to leave alone for stealing. I think Ravenna will auto-raze but we can resettle. Plan to leave Caesar with Neapolis as his only city.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I have started preparing a plan for ~5 turns. Will update with more detail later today. Can play Thursday.

Priorities
Top priority in this set is stealing Calendar and set up the steal of Aesthetics. These two techs will enable a lot of wonders that we can build for fail gold. Second priority is to claim the remaining 7-8 city sites available, continue capturing cities from Caesar and de Gaulle and start building an eastern force that can take Roosevelts cities and later Tokugawas.

Technologies
Research Music at 0%. We are going to want to self research this at some point and get the GArtist.

Dealing with AIs
Keep an eye out for Feudalism. We want to steal it. Stay on good terms with Bismarck. Steal Calendar from Roosevelt ASAP and prepare for capture of his cities. Prepare for stealing Aesthetics. All spy points on Toku.

City placement and builds
Settle the silver city and spread Tao. Move the southern settler towards the yellow city in dotmap SW. Settle green city in dotmap central and spread Tao. build settlers in Edirne and Istanbul for purple city in dotmap SW, for blue city in dotmap central west.

dotmap central
dotmap SE
dotmap SW
dotmap central west
dotmap NW
dotmap island

Complete Globe in Guangzhou.
Every turn put overflow hammers into Mausoleum of Mausollos or Colossus (When copper is available).
In general build granary and forge in our cities.
Build missionary for Shanghai. Consider building more to save monuments in our new cities.
Build some workers and settlers
Build IA's for passive spy point generation.

General micro
Start improving Calendar resources. Build road to our spy gift city.

Civics and religion

War
Capture Neapolis and Cumae. Bomber support for the latter. Continue war by staging a stack for Paris. Use GSpy to scout France and defog bomber targets.

Bigger picture
It becomes more and more clear that the fastest route to 420 points is to go for culture via espionage.

Culture x points
Diplomacy 50 points (With AP)
Civil 97 points (Eliminate all but 1-2 AI)
Military 100 points
Science 42 points (Incl. Medieval era)
Construction y points
---------------------------------------------------------------
x+y+289 points

We need 420 points, that is x + y >= 131 points. If we research all Medieval techs we can build 21 WW and 5 NW thus it's possible to get 100 points from Construction. Getting 31 points from culture require 46500 culture points or ~9300 spy points. We already have close to 3000 spy points against Bismarck and an additional GSpy + the option to generate another GSpy soon.

 

[Cactus Pete]

That's 10 points toward the 400 needed to win? If so, then I'm certainly for saving him. How, exactly, do we achieve 15,000 culture with a Gspy? I rely on the 1:5 spy point to culture rate reported in NZ's links. 3000 spy point x 5 = 15000 culture. We gift a city to an AI and use spy missions to add culture to this city. Then we recapture. So, a spy can be ordered to just somehow increase a city's culture? What's the rationale for that superpower?

Not clear from your dot maps whether you want to retain all three Roman cities. I had assumed that only Ravenna would be worth keeping. If so, then that is the one to leave alone for stealing. I think Ravenna will auto-raze but we can resettle. Plan to leave Caesar with Neapolis as his only city.

Of course Ravenna will auto-raze if we take it now, but not if we leave it alone until stealing is done. Leaving it as JC's last lifeline would save us building a settler.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I have started preparing a plan for ~5 turns. Will update with more detail later today. Can play Thursday. Good to hear.

Priorities
Top priority in this set is stealing Calendar and set up the steal of Aesthetics. These two techs will enable a lot of wonders that we can build for fail gold. Second priority is to claim the remaining 7-8 city sites available, continue capturing cities from Caesar and de Gaulle and start building an eastern force that can take Roosevelts cities and later Tokugawas. Like all that.

Technologies
Research Music at 0%. We are going to want to self research this at some point and get the GArtist. Was going to suggest that. Is it true that a GSpy delivers 15,000 culture, but a GArtist only 4,000?

Dealing with AIs
Keep an eye out for Feudalism. We want to steal it. Stay on good terms with Bismarck. Steal Calendar from Roosevelt ASAP and prepare for capture of his cities. Prepare for stealing Aesthetics. All spy points on Toku. Check.

City placement and builds
Settle the silver city and spread Tao. Move the southern settler towards the purple city in dotmap SW. Not my concept of purple. Don't see any good way to build a wkbt very quickly somewhere to help the "purple" city grow? If that's not practical, what about settling the yellow city first with our existing nearby southern settler? There are 30 hammers available in HG that could build a wkbt IBT, and it should be able to reach the pink(?) city by the time it's settled (if yellow goes first). Settle green city in dotmap central and spread Tao. Are you color blind, Fred? That city outline is blue. build settlers in Edirne and Istanbul for yellow city in dotmap SW, for blue city in dotmap central west and for replacement (see above) of Ravenna.

dotmap central
dotmap SE
dotmap SW
dotmap central west
dotmap NW
dotmap island

Complete Globe in Guangzhou.
Every turn put overflow hammers into Mausoleum of Mausollos or Colossus (When copper is available).
In general build granary and forge in our cities.
Build missionary for Shanghai.
Build some workers and settlers
Build IA's for passive spy point generation.
All good.

Bigger picture
It becomes more and more clear that the fastest route to 420 points is to go for culture via espionage.

Culture x points
Diplomacy 50 points (With AP)
Civil 97 points (Eliminate all but 1-2 AI)
Military 100 points
Science 42 points (Incl. Medieval era)
Construction y points
---------------------------------------------------------------
x+y+289 points

We need 420 points, that is x + y >= 131 points. If we research all Medieval techs we can build 21 WW and 5 NW thus it's possible to get 100 points from Construction. Getting 31 points from culture require 46500 culture points or ~9300 spy points. We already have close to 3000 spy points against Bismarck and an additional GSpy + the option to generate another GSpy soon.

Greatly appreciate this detailed explication.

Should we also be thinking about eventually generating another GAge with two GP's?

Might want to whip archer in Mumbai this turn and put hammers into Globe next turn.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

It becomes more and more clear that the fastest route to 420 points is to go for culture via espionage.

I have quite a bit of experience with this type of victory so will have a look at the save tomorrow and see what I can contribute.

Between a work trip, preparing / travelling for my brother in law's funeral and trying to get the Buffy Beta finished I'm afraid I won't be able to play any turns until a week on Friday (2nd March). I will try and comment more on our plans though. I am very grateful to the two of you for keeping things moving.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I have quite a bit of experience with this type of victory so will have a look at the save tomorrow and see what I can contribute.

Between a work trip, preparing / travelling for my brother in law's funeral and trying to get the Buffy Beta finished I'm afraid I won't be able to play any turns until a week on Friday (2nd March). I will try and comment more on our plans though. I am very grateful to the two of you for keeping things moving.

No worries. We are having fun. But we would like to share the fun with you guys.

It would be great if you could give some input to the espionage culture plan. Since we already have almost 3000 spy points on Bismarck he is the best target and I think the target city could be the spy city (Green city here: dotmap central) that we will use to steal techs from Toku, Caesar and de Gaulle. In order to get Bismarck to accept this city we have to take most of his cities before gifting. The problem is then getting back open borders but I think we can rely on liberating some cities. We "only" need to bring one city to about 50000 culture. Our victory will be domination or religious.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I have changed the plan so that we settle the yellow city first and leave Caesar with Ravenna. Might also build some more missionaries to get border expansions in new cities and extra hammers.