[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Xteam

Frederiksberg · Mar 14, 2018

That's great. Maybe we should get a missionary to Haerbin ASAP and liberate it. As far as I remember liberating gives +2 in diplomatic relations while gifting a city gives nothing so we have to be careful not to generate anymore culture in Haerbin (In which case we can no longer liberate).

Don't worry about the lost spy points. Small mistakes like that are almost inevitable with a game as complicated as this one.

Noble Zarkon · Mar 14, 2018

Frederiksberg said:
Maybe we should get a missionary to Haerbin ASAP and liberate it. As far as I remember liberating gives +2 in diplomatic relations while gifting a city gives nothing so we have to be careful not to generate anymore culture in Haerbin (In which case we can no longer liberate).

Correct - we could whip a Missionary in Macau and send it over, checking when it arrives that we still have the liberate option.

I have some thoughts on things we should do over the next few turns -

The troops at Spy City are all injured which is why we are getting poor odds, we can promote Chariot 4 to a Knight which would help. Alternatively we could send the super medic / more troops from New York north.
The rest of the troops at New York should head south ready to join the Japanese front presumably. Our Galleys will take us within sight of the Japanese cities in the next turn or so and we'll know what we are dealing with.
Spy points on Toku ready to steal Theology.
De Gaulle will capitulate it looks like, do we want to accept that after taking his two visible cities? We have troops in place to take them in the next couple of turns.

Frederiksberg · Mar 14, 2018

Noble Zarkon said:
Correct - we could whip a Missionary in Macau and send it over, checking when it arrives that we still have the liberate option. Yes, do that. And whip a worker in Haerbin. We might as well whip it down to size one before liberating.

I have some thoughts on things we should do over the next few turns -

The troops at Spy City are all injured which is why we are getting poor odds, we can promote Chariot 4 to a Knight which would help. Alternatively we could send the super medic / more troops from New York north. It's too early to spend gold on upgrades. We don't know yet if we need the gold for techs or spy points. Send the Knight to Yan'an where it will heal faster. Wait 2-3 turns before we attack Spy City. The knight can attack directly from Yan'an. Send the super medic and the HA in New York to board the galley built in Kaifeng.

The rest of the troops at New York should head south ready to join the Japanese front presumably. Our Galleys will take us within sight of the Japanese cities in the next turn or so and we'll know what we are dealing with. Don't declare war before the tech steal is done. I believe the mission cost will go up during war time. Send the fully healed maces towards Guangzhou and let the rest heal. We may decide to send them west since there are no more targets in the east when Toku is gone.

Spy points on Toku ready to steal Theology. Yes, and set spy slider to 20% for ONE TURN then back to zero and spy points on Bismarck. That should give us enough points to steal Theology.

De Gaulle will capitulate it looks like, do we want to accept that after taking his two visible cities? We have troops in place to take them in the next couple of turns. No capitulation. The more civs we eliminate the more points we get from the demographics.

Suggestions

Spy in NY should go towards Spy City
Next turn the HA stack outside Lyons can go to the silver hill near Rheims. Also move the HA from Paris to the hill 2N.
Re-base bomber to Lyons. We want to preserve as many unit in the west as possible because we have a hard target left in Churchill and his redcoats. Next turn do an AIR STRIKE on Rheims and attack. If Orleans is still defended by only one archer it may make sense to attack immediately. Otherwise 2nd turn from now AIR STRIKE Orleans and capture. Don't take any chances with the medic. Re-base bomber to Guangzhou after taking the two French cities. The last city can probably be taken without the bomber (Must be somewhere north).
Sail our galleys towards Kyoto staying out of Japanese territory for the FIRST TURN. Then 2nd turn DOW and drop unit off outside Kyoto. Galleys return to Guangzhou to pick up reinforcements.
Galleys produced in Hong-Kong sail to Guangzhou and pick up maces from NY.
Send the Knight to Yan'an where it will heal faster. Wait 2-3 turns before we attack Spy City. The knight can attack directly from Yan'an. Send the super medic and the HA in New York to board the galley built in Kaifeng.
Send the fully healed maces outside NY towards Guangzhou and let the rest heal.
Send some workers to chop HE in Antium (We don't need 3 workers around Lyons). Try to synchronize the chops. Push overflow hammers into HE in other barracks cities if possible. Careful not to complete it!!
Worker outside Istanbul is in DANGER. Move to farm rice further south.
Build culture in Berlin, Hamburg and Chongqin.
Try to match workers with the cities that require more improved tiles. Farm the unimproved floodplains in Yan'an, Cumae, Antium.
Switch research to Engineering (Tech slider at zero % until we know the outcome of the GP in Guangzhou)
Move cho-ko-nu in Shandong to Istanbul. The barbs may attack again.

EDIT: Do we loose the state religion spy bonus if Bismarck adopts Tao?
EDIT: I checked this and the bonus is reduced from 40% to 25% so I think we should abandon this idea. We want Bismarck to stay in another religion.

Noble Zarkon · Mar 14, 2018

Frederiksberg said:
EDIT: Do we loose the state religion spy bonus if Bismarck adopts Tao?

I thought it was the opposite way about, we get a discount if we share a religion??

Frederiksberg said:
Re-base bomber to Guangzhou after taking the two French cities. The last city can probably be taken without the bomber (Must be somewhere north).

I've zoomed out and there is no sign of French culture in the North, I rather suspect it will be on the other Continent which means Astronomy if we want to conquer it.

Frederiksberg · Mar 14, 2018

Noble Zarkon said:
I thought it was the opposite way about, we get a discount if we share a religion?? No, I checked this and the bonus is reduced from 40% to 25% so I think we should abandon this idea. We want Bismarck to stay in another religion.

I've zoomed out and there is no sign of French culture in the North, I rather suspect it will be on the other Continent which means Astronomy if we want to conquer it. This is impossible. I believe France started with two cities. Paris and Shanghai

Noble Zarkon · Mar 14, 2018

This is impossible. I believe France started with two cities. Paris and Shanghai

OK so there is likely no culture in a poor northern city then.

No, I checked this and the bonus is reduced from 40% to 25% so I think we should abandon this idea.

I was thinking of the spread culture mission so when we come to do that we will want Bismarck in our religion.

Frederiksberg · Mar 14, 2018

Noble Zarkon said:
OK so there is likely no culture in a poor northern city then. Yes.

I was thinking of the spread culture mission so when we come to do that we will want Bismarck in our religion. I don't get this. Why would we want a lower bonus on our spy missions? It's reduced from 40% to 25% if Bismarck adopts Tao.

Noble Zarkon · Mar 14, 2018

Why would we want a lower bonus on our spy missions? It's reduced from 40% to 25% if Bismarck adopts Tao.

I've always misunderstood this!! So we want our religion in the city but Bismarck to have a different state religion. In which case we should liberate Haerbin this turn.

Frederiksberg · Mar 14, 2018

I think we can wait a few turns. Haerbin is not generating any culture and the risk of random spread of Tao is extremely low. Lets whip the worker there first and perhaps then liberate. We could wait even longer and perhaps we should. We may anyway have to liberate several cities and gift some techs to get open borders but it's unclear if we need this and there is going to be extra hassle recapturing these cities

Noble Zarkon · Mar 15, 2018

Sorry I didn't get the plan for these two turns done today, will try and do so in the morning with the intention of playing tomorrow night.

Frederiksberg · Mar 15, 2018

We have 1.5 months for the remaining 30 turns so no need to rush. After your set we can probably make a rough outline of the end game because we would know if we have an extra GArtist for the espionage culture operation or a GE for bulbing Engineering.

Given the low number of turns left we really need to chop HE in Antium ASAP. We are going to need some knights out of there to combat Churchill's redcoats. And keep building galleys in Paris and Rome for the invasion of England.

Noble Zarkon · Mar 16, 2018

REPOSTING FOR EASE OF ACCESS

Techs required to complete (Classical and) Medieval era:

Aesthetics (Toku steal)
CS (Toku Steal)
Literature
Music
Feudalism (Bismarck steal)
Theology (Toku steal)
Guilds
Engineering
Banking (Caesar steal)
Paper
Engineering (Bulb w. GE if possible)
Divine Right
Optics

Optics doesn't enable any wonders and is probably the last tech to self research or bulb.

Wars:

Reduce Bismarck to one city.
Eliminate de Gaulle
Eliminate Toku
Eliminate Churchill
Eliminate Caesar
Eliminate Bismarck

Spy City will be retaken and gifted several times:

Gift to Toku (already done)
Steal Theology
Re-capture
Gift to Caesar (To steal Banking)
Gift to Bismarck (To add 50.000 culture points using spies)

Noble Zarkon · Mar 16, 2018

PPP

t93
===

Spy points on Toku and set spy slider to 20%
Switch research to Engineering (Tech slider at zero % until we know the outcome of the GP in Guangzhou)
Knight 25 to Ya'nan to heal
Oliver Cromwell (Medic) and HA 26 to head towards new Galley from Kaifeng
Atlas Titanus (Gt Spy) from NY to Spy City
Build culture in Berlin
Move cho-ko-nu 10 in Shandong to Istanbul to guard against barbs

t94
===

Steal Theology from Toku
Spy points on Bismarck and set spy slider to 0%
Macemen 5,8,11 & 14 head towards Guangzhou (for Japanese front)
Rest of Macemen to heal in NY
Re-base bomber to Lyons.
Move HA stack outside Lyons to the silver hill near Rheims forking Rheims & Orleans.
Move HA 9 from Paris 2 tiles North to threaten Orleans.
Sail our galleys towards Kyoto staying out of Japanese territory
Galley produced in Hong-Kong sails to Guangzhou and pick up maces from NY.
Worker 15 (Istanbul) move South to farm rice
Build culture in Chongqin
Farm the unimproved floodplains in Yan'an, Cumae, Antium.

t95
===

AIR STRIKE on Rheims and attack. If Orleans is still defended by only one archer it may make sense to attack immediately.
DOW and drop units off outside Kyoto. Galleys return to Guangzhou to pick up reinforcements.

GP Born - **STOP** and evaluate

t96
===

AIR STRIKE Orleans and capture if not already done. Re-base bomber to Guangzhou after taking the two French cities.

NOTES:-

How do we want to play the HE - delay it for fail gold or complete ASAP?
Hamburg has 3 turns of resistance left, build Culture after this

Frederiksberg · Mar 16, 2018

It's a dilemma with the HE but it seems to me that finishing all our wars in the western hemisphere in ~25 turns could be challenging without some knights from the HE city. It may be possible to do a compromise i.e. avoid building it for one or two turns (to enable overflow going into HE in other cities) if we can get enough workers down there to chop because the chops will finish it fast.

Yes for now to culture in Hamburg. This may depend on our liberation plans. If we can get open border with Bismarck it may be worth the extra hassle of liberating a few cities and taking them back later.

GREEN to go!

Noble Zarkon · Mar 17, 2018

Playing.

Noble Zarkon · Mar 17, 2018

Everything went as planned basically.

We got our Great Artist.

Bismarck agreed to open borders

.

Stole Theology from Toku.

Churchill will trade us Banking but I know we plan to steal it from Caesar so no action taken.

We captured Rheims but lost 2 HA at > 90% odds :crazyeye:

.

We have sight of De Gaulle's last city in the frozen North, guarded by a Spearman and 3 Archers.

Great General born in Shangai, moved him South thinking to upgrade some Maces for the war with Toku perhaps.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG025_AD0700_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler SGOTM Log :

Frederiksberg · Mar 17, 2018

Well done

I'm quite busted after entertaining a lot of guests at a book release but will get back tomorrow with some analysis.

Tech wise we are doing pretty¨well. The last five techs can be researched in 8 turns @ 100% slider (but costs 3600 gold and we only have 2100 so it will take a bit longer) Not sure how much we are getting from HE fail gold.

Stuff we need to complete:

Complete AP and 9 more wonders (Incl. HE)
Eliminate de Gaulle, Toku, Churchill, Caesar, Bismarck
Research five remaining medieval techs
Do espionage spy mission to create a +40.000 culture city

This should bring us above the 420 point score required. The tricky issue that requires some calculation is the amount of culture we can get from 3 or 4 GArtists combined with 2GSpys, the 2581 spy points we already have against Bismarck and whatever spy points we can generate before the end of the game.

Noble Zarkon · Mar 17, 2018

Frederiksberg said:
I'm quite busted after entertaining a lot of guests at a book release but will get back tomorrow with some analysis.

No worries, I'm unlikely to be able to play again until Tuesday but there's no rush.

Frederiksberg · Mar 18, 2018

I had a look at the big picture.

Here are the game rules for reference:

Culture Ministry: 100 points * the total culture of the top 3 cities/150,000
Diplomatic Ministry: 25 points for being AP leader, 25 points for being UN leader, 50 points for diplomatic victory votes: 25 points * AP victory votes % / 75%+ 25 points* UN victory votes % / 67%
Civil Ministry: 100 points* (81-the sum of 9 ranks) /72
Military Ministry: 30 points * population% / 35% + 30 points * Land area % / 60% + 40 points * (destroyed civilization + vassal civilization )/ 8
Science Ministry: 100 points * eras of all techs learned / 7
Economy Ministry: 100 points * cities with corporation / total cities (except barbarians)
Construction Ministry: 100 points * wonders owned/25. (All wonders(world+national) count.)

Here is where we are (approximately):

Culture Ministry: 45 (With espionage 2300 + 12000 from GArtist + 9000 spy points x 6 ~ 68K)
Diplomacy Ministry: 58 points (With AP, assuming 100% of votes)
Civil Ministry: 92 with Caesar, de Gaulle and Toku gone
Military Ministry: 100 points with Caesar, de Gaulle and Toku gone
Science Ministry: 28 going to 42 points with Medieval era
Construction Ministry: 68 (17 NW+WW with Tokyo, HE and AP)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Total 405

We are 15 short. With Bismarck & Churchill gone we get ~3 points from Civil Ministry and the remaining 12 points can come from 3 more WW's.

Sistine
Angkor
GLib
Hagia

That is one more than we need giving us a small buffer.

Research path: Engineering - Paper - Div. Right - Compass - Optics (Can be done in ~14 turns)

Conquest seems like the fastest way to victory. Dominations is hard since we are only half way there wrt land and Religious will reduce the number of Diplo points and Civil points plus it is harder to engineer.

We need one more GArtist and around 30 spies to do the culture espionage operation in one turn. It can take place at the earliest 13-14 turns from now depending on when we capture Tokyo (Parthenon).

It' probably a little optimistic to think we can win in 14 turns, but less than 20 is certainly doable with careful play. We should probably set an ambitious goal of 16 turns knowing that it may take a couple more.

We now need an analysis of how to complete conquest in 16 turns!!

leif erikson · Mar 18, 2018

Lookin' good NZ.

Shouldn't our stack in Japan be attacking Tokyo first?

On Conquest VC, what are our chances of getting some of these civs to capitulate? Japan, England? France will now?
Or do we want to eliminate them?

[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Xteam

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