Sounds great! 
Allllmost there.......
Allllmost there.......
[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Frederiksberg
Deity
I think we can plan for the most optimistic time schedule. This means that we do the espionage culture operation T108. This is also the date we aim to achieve conquest. A possible timeline is:
T99: Bomb Tokyo. Capture Spy City.
T100: Bomb Tokyo
T101: Air strike Tokyo and capture
T102: Re-base to Orleans. Last spies are moved into Spy City.
T103: Air strike York. Attack and capture.
T104: Bomb London
T105: Bomb London
T106: Bomb London
T107: Air strike London and capture. GArtist is born and moves towards spy city. Gift Spy City to Bismarck. Infiltrate.
T108: Capture last English city or accept capitulation if we have enough points. Latest capture date for Ravenna. Last GArtist arrives at Spy City and spreads culture. Do espionage culture missions. Recapture Spy City. Air strike Munich and capture. GAME OVER.
I don't have access to the save so not 100% sure if the bomber can strike Munich from Orleans. It may also be impossible to stage Knights within striking range of Munich so they can attack the same turn as war is declared. In that case we postpone victory by one turn. We also need to work out how soon our knights can get to London and Munich. It may also be impossible to get all spies in Spy City within the time limit of T102 but it may still work even if some spies are 1-2 turns late.
T99: Bomb Tokyo. Capture Spy City.
T100: Bomb Tokyo
T101: Air strike Tokyo and capture
T102: Re-base to Orleans. Last spies are moved into Spy City.
T103: Air strike York. Attack and capture.
T104: Bomb London
T105: Bomb London
T106: Bomb London
T107: Air strike London and capture. GArtist is born and moves towards spy city. Gift Spy City to Bismarck. Infiltrate.
T108: Capture last English city or accept capitulation if we have enough points. Latest capture date for Ravenna. Last GArtist arrives at Spy City and spreads culture. Do espionage culture missions. Recapture Spy City. Air strike Munich and capture. GAME OVER.
I don't have access to the save so not 100% sure if the bomber can strike Munich from Orleans. It may also be impossible to stage Knights within striking range of Munich so they can attack the same turn as war is declared. In that case we postpone victory by one turn. We also need to work out how soon our knights can get to London and Munich. It may also be impossible to get all spies in Spy City within the time limit of T102 but it may still work even if some spies are 1-2 turns late.
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Noble Zarkon
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We cannot do espionage culture missions on the same turn we gift the city, the option will not be available until the following turn.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Good to know . I have updated my post accordingly.
. I have updated my post accordingly.
Noble Zarkon
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I don't think it will be possible.
Frederiksberg
Deity
I checked the save and the bomber CAN reach Munich from Orleans.
I also calculated the average required number of spies and it is a s high as 41. It's hardly possible to build 31 spies and get them to Spy City in 4 turns so we just have to do our best. If we can't get all spies to be 5 turns stationary we will spend more points per spy and thus use fewer but we will also get slightly less culture. But we can compensate by building extra wonders and we are already doing this.
Be careful with the save! I forgot to pause and a few units (spies and the GG) are left with goto commands that I didn't remember to cancel.
I also calculated the average required number of spies and it is a s high as 41. It's hardly possible to build 31 spies and get them to Spy City in 4 turns so we just have to do our best. If we can't get all spies to be 5 turns stationary we will spend more points per spy and thus use fewer but we will also get slightly less culture. But we can compensate by building extra wonders and we are already doing this.
Be careful with the save! I forgot to pause and a few units (spies and the GG) are left with goto commands that I didn't remember to cancel.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Maybe we should build Notre Dame also just to be sure that we have enough points even if the yield from the culture missions is slightly reduced. It may also give us the option of vassalizing Churchill rather than eliminating.
Noble Zarkon
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Anyone able to play this weekend?
Sorry, not available this weekend. 
Frederiksberg
Deity
I can play 3 more turns Sunday. Will post a plan today.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Elaborating on the time line. Galleys for the England invasion are stationed at the yellow X's in this map. The northern galley can ferry some HA's to the north and possibly take the northern city. We have to DOW Churchill T101 at the latest.
Edirne can start building Notre Dame so that we have a point safety margin and may be able to go for capitulation from Churchill and also can live with a slightly lower output of the cultural mission. It would also make sense to chop a lot around Shandong in order to build the SPiral Minaret when it becomes available after DR is discovered.
We need a lot of spies. I suggest to 4-pop Angkor and see if we can build two spies back to back in Yan'an. Other nearby cities all build spies. We want to build 30 spies within the next 3-4 turns which means that at least 7 spies must be built every turn even if we have to dry whip spies.
Tech path: Divine Right - Compass - Optics. Slider at 100% as long as the gold lasts.
Knights must be built in all cities near the English Channel with the goal of reaching our galleys T104 or T105. Later knight builds go to Munich. Move all units out of New York and Mumbai with destination Rome. Should be about enough to capture the city say with a single knight in the mix.
T99: Bomb Tokyo. Capture Spy City.
T100: Bomb Tokyo. Start building Notre Dame in Edirne. Redirect workers to chop it.
T101: Air strike Tokyo and capture. DOW Churchill and advance galleys into English waters.
T102: Re-base to Orleans. Last spies are moved into Spy City. (Not possible)
T103: Air strike York. Attack and capture. Trailing spies are moved into Spy City.
T104: Bomb London. First galleys in place for the England invasion. Start loading Knights. Trailing spies are moved into Spy City.
T105: Bomb London. All galleys must be in place. Last Knight loaded.
T106: Bomb London. Last knights unloaded
T107: Air strike London and capture. GArtist is born and moves towards spy city. Gift Spy City to Bismarck. Infiltrate.
T108: Capture last English city or accept capitulation if we have enough points. Latest capture date for Ravenna. Last GArtist arrives at Spy City and spreads culture. Do espionage culture missions. Recapture Spy City. Air strike Munich and capture. GAME OVER.
Would be great if someone could check the calculation of how many points we have and are about to get. This is my estimate:
Here are the game rules for reference:
Culture Ministry: 42 (With espionage 2300 + 12000 from GArtist + 9000 spy points x 5.5 ~ 64K)
Diplomacy Ministry: 58 points (With AP, assuming 100% of votes)
Civil Ministry: 93 with Caesar, de Gaulle, Bismarck and Toku gone, Churchill vassalized.
Military Ministry: 100 points with Caesar, de Gaulle and Toku gone
Science Ministry: 28 going to 42 points with Medieval era
Construction Ministry: 88 ( 4 NW+ 18 WW with Tokyo, and wonders under construction incl Notre Dame)
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Total 423
Edirne can start building Notre Dame so that we have a point safety margin and may be able to go for capitulation from Churchill and also can live with a slightly lower output of the cultural mission. It would also make sense to chop a lot around Shandong in order to build the SPiral Minaret when it becomes available after DR is discovered.
We need a lot of spies. I suggest to 4-pop Angkor and see if we can build two spies back to back in Yan'an. Other nearby cities all build spies. We want to build 30 spies within the next 3-4 turns which means that at least 7 spies must be built every turn even if we have to dry whip spies.
Tech path: Divine Right - Compass - Optics. Slider at 100% as long as the gold lasts.
Knights must be built in all cities near the English Channel with the goal of reaching our galleys T104 or T105. Later knight builds go to Munich. Move all units out of New York and Mumbai with destination Rome. Should be about enough to capture the city say with a single knight in the mix.
T99: Bomb Tokyo. Capture Spy City.
T100: Bomb Tokyo. Start building Notre Dame in Edirne. Redirect workers to chop it.
T101: Air strike Tokyo and capture. DOW Churchill and advance galleys into English waters.
T102: Re-base to Orleans. Last spies are moved into Spy City. (Not possible)
T103: Air strike York. Attack and capture. Trailing spies are moved into Spy City.
T104: Bomb London. First galleys in place for the England invasion. Start loading Knights. Trailing spies are moved into Spy City.
T105: Bomb London. All galleys must be in place. Last Knight loaded.
T106: Bomb London. Last knights unloaded
T107: Air strike London and capture. GArtist is born and moves towards spy city. Gift Spy City to Bismarck. Infiltrate.
T108: Capture last English city or accept capitulation if we have enough points. Latest capture date for Ravenna. Last GArtist arrives at Spy City and spreads culture. Do espionage culture missions. Recapture Spy City. Air strike Munich and capture. GAME OVER.
Would be great if someone could check the calculation of how many points we have and are about to get. This is my estimate:
Here are the game rules for reference:
- Culture Ministry: 100 points * the total culture of the top 3 cities/150,000
- Diplomatic Ministry: 25 points for being AP leader, 25 points for being UN leader, 50 points for diplomatic victory votes: 25 points * AP victory votes % / 75%+ 25 points* UN victory votes % / 67%
- Civil Ministry: 100 points* (81-the sum of 9 ranks) /72
- Military Ministry: 30 points * population% / 35% + 30 points * Land area % / 60% + 40 points * (destroyed civilization + vassal civilization )/ 8
- Science Ministry: 100 points * eras of all techs learned / 7
- Economy Ministry: 100 points * cities with corporation / total cities (except barbarians)
- Construction Ministry: 100 points * wonders owned/25. (All wonders(world+national) count.)
Culture Ministry: 42 (With espionage 2300 + 12000 from GArtist + 9000 spy points x 5.5 ~ 64K)
Diplomacy Ministry: 58 points (With AP, assuming 100% of votes)
Civil Ministry: 93 with Caesar, de Gaulle, Bismarck and Toku gone, Churchill vassalized.
Military Ministry: 100 points with Caesar, de Gaulle and Toku gone
Science Ministry: 28 going to 42 points with Medieval era
Construction Ministry: 88 ( 4 NW+ 18 WW with Tokyo, and wonders under construction incl Notre Dame)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Total 423
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Frederiksberg
Deity
Previous post contains the plan for the next 3 turns.
Green
Will try to double check calculations when I get home this evening.
Will try to double check calculations when I get home this evening.
Noble Zarkon
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Green from me as well.
Will be able to double check calculations tomorrow afternoon if that is helpful.
Will be able to double check calculations tomorrow afternoon if that is helpful.
Frederiksberg
Deity
I think I have done the calculation correct but I want to make sure that we haven't missed something or failed to interpret the rules correctly. I counted the Palace among the NW because the Civilopedia says that it is one. Note that in case of the Civil Ministry our ranking improve when we eliminate a civ. Validate as much as you can and let me hear your results.
Should we ask Deckhand or Sossos if we are doing the calculation the correct way?
Should we ask Deckhand or Sossos if we are doing the calculation the correct way?
Frederiksberg
Deity
Progress according to plan except that I decided to attack Tokyo a turn early. Toku is gone and we are at war with Churchill who has been building lots of redcoats. Played 3 turns but decided to press enter after last turn to see what Churchill would build in York.
Turnset notes
T98: Whip Angkor. Set up some extra Spy builds and knight builds.
T99: Attack Spy City and capture with the loss of a cho-ko-nu. Move lots of units. Unload units next to Tokyo. Sankore started in Nanjing. It has 3 forests and enough pop to whip across the finish line. We get fail gold from Angkor. Now at 20 spies. An extra redcoat appear in York.
T100: Air strike Tokyo. Our mace has 59% chance against LB and wins. The rest is easy. Tokyo is captured with no losses and Toku is dead. Now at 27 spies. Spread Confu in Munich.
T101: Re-base bomber to Orleans. Now at 34 spies. Need 6 more. Now 3 redcoats in York! DOW Churchill! Move troops closer. Discover DR.
T102: No units moved, but decided to press next turn to see if Churchill would build another redcoat in York. This did not happen. Now at 40 spies! Discover Compass.
>>SAVE<<
Turnset notes
T98: Whip Angkor. Set up some extra Spy builds and knight builds.
T99: Attack Spy City and capture with the loss of a cho-ko-nu. Move lots of units. Unload units next to Tokyo. Sankore started in Nanjing. It has 3 forests and enough pop to whip across the finish line. We get fail gold from Angkor. Now at 20 spies. An extra redcoat appear in York.
T100: Air strike Tokyo. Our mace has 59% chance against LB and wins. The rest is easy. Tokyo is captured with no losses and Toku is dead. Now at 27 spies. Spread Confu in Munich.
T101: Re-base bomber to Orleans. Now at 34 spies. Need 6 more. Now 3 redcoats in York! DOW Churchill! Move troops closer. Discover DR.
T102: No units moved, but decided to press next turn to see if Churchill would build another redcoat in York. This did not happen. Now at 40 spies! Discover Compass.
>>SAVE<<
Spoiler Log :
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Frederiksberg
Deity
How many turns between building AP and becoming AP leader?
Here is a list of what needs to be completed:
Culture Ministry: Gift Spy City to Bismarck and do espionage culture missions.
Diplomacy Ministry: Complete AP and get elected leader.
Civil & Military Ministry: Eliminate Caesar (1 city), Bismarck (1 city) and make Churchill our vassal (3 cities).
Science Ministry: Complete research of Optics.
Construction Ministry: Complete wonders under construction.
We are going for 20 WW + 4 NW. This gives us an additional 8 point margin compared to the calculation in this post.
We have all the spies we need and only want to build knights, wonders and wealth for the remaining turns. We even have a little gold for upgrading some veteran HA's to knights.
The main challenge in the last two sets is to distribute our units between London, Munich and Ravenna. We have some xbows and maces en route to Ravenna but may need a knight there as well. The spy built in Neapolis is for Ravenna revolt. I wonder if Churchill might already capitulate when we capture York given the big difference in power.
Here is a list of what needs to be completed:
Culture Ministry: Gift Spy City to Bismarck and do espionage culture missions.
Diplomacy Ministry: Complete AP and get elected leader.
Civil & Military Ministry: Eliminate Caesar (1 city), Bismarck (1 city) and make Churchill our vassal (3 cities).
Science Ministry: Complete research of Optics.
Construction Ministry: Complete wonders under construction.
We are going for 20 WW + 4 NW. This gives us an additional 8 point margin compared to the calculation in this post.
We have all the spies we need and only want to build knights, wonders and wealth for the remaining turns. We even have a little gold for upgrading some veteran HA's to knights.
The main challenge in the last two sets is to distribute our units between London, Munich and Ravenna. We have some xbows and maces en route to Ravenna but may need a knight there as well. The spy built in Neapolis is for Ravenna revolt. I wonder if Churchill might already capitulate when we capture York given the big difference in power.
Noble Zarkon
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Great progress.
I think that's a good idea, they may not reply but worth asking!
Just the one assuming for Resident (proposes resolutions) and 11 for Religious Leader (wins the game), the description of the game reads leader but I think he means Resident. Another question to ask.
Frederiksberg
Deity
So the AP Resident is elected the turn after completing the AP? And the result is registered after two turns?
Yes, good progress in most areas but Churchill building two more redcoats in York is problematic and I think we may need the cho-ko-nu in Orleans to do additional collateral damage to his stack. Did a small test yesterday and it seems that the bomber can only do minor collateral damage and that the damaged units will heal to full strength in one turn so doing multiple air strikes has no effect. For the same reason we should probably build cho-ko-nus in Paris, Orleans and Lyons for the London attack.
T102: Bomb York. Set up cho-ko-nu builds. Move knights and Cho-ko-nu in Orleans towards York.
T103: Air strike York and capture if still 3 redcoats in York. If a 4th redcoats is built delay attack and bomb London First galleys in place for the England invasion. Start loading Knights. Whip cho-ko-nus.
T104: Bomb London (Or air strike York and capture using cho-ko-nu as first attacker if attack was delayed).
T105: Bomb London. All galleys must be in place. Last Cho-ko-nus/Knights loaded.
T106: Bomb London. Last knights/cho-ko-nus unloaded. GArtist is born and moves towards spy city. DOW Caesar and move units (3 maces + 3 cho-kon-nu's) in. We probably need 1-2 knights also to be sure.
T107: Air strike London and capture. Move GArtist into Spy City and spread culture. Gift Spy City to Bismarck. Infiltrate. Last Knights arrive at rally point outside Munich. We need 10-12 knights. Do revolt in Ravenna and capture.
T108: Capture last English city or accept capitulation if we have enough points. Do espionage culture missions. Recapture Spy City. Air strike Munich and capture. GAME OVER.
We could use the GG to promote a cho-ko-nu to drill 4 so that he does extra collateral damage.
Yes, good progress in most areas but Churchill building two more redcoats in York is problematic and I think we may need the cho-ko-nu in Orleans to do additional collateral damage to his stack. Did a small test yesterday and it seems that the bomber can only do minor collateral damage and that the damaged units will heal to full strength in one turn so doing multiple air strikes has no effect. For the same reason we should probably build cho-ko-nus in Paris, Orleans and Lyons for the London attack.
T102: Bomb York. Set up cho-ko-nu builds. Move knights and Cho-ko-nu in Orleans towards York.
T103: Air strike York and capture if still 3 redcoats in York. If a 4th redcoats is built delay attack and bomb London First galleys in place for the England invasion. Start loading Knights. Whip cho-ko-nus.
T104: Bomb London (Or air strike York and capture using cho-ko-nu as first attacker if attack was delayed).
T105: Bomb London. All galleys must be in place. Last Cho-ko-nus/Knights loaded.
T106: Bomb London. Last knights/cho-ko-nus unloaded. GArtist is born and moves towards spy city. DOW Caesar and move units (3 maces + 3 cho-kon-nu's) in. We probably need 1-2 knights also to be sure.
T107: Air strike London and capture. Move GArtist into Spy City and spread culture. Gift Spy City to Bismarck. Infiltrate. Last Knights arrive at rally point outside Munich. We need 10-12 knights. Do revolt in Ravenna and capture.
T108: Capture last English city or accept capitulation if we have enough points. Do espionage culture missions. Recapture Spy City. Air strike Munich and capture. GAME OVER.
We could use the GG to promote a cho-ko-nu to drill 4 so that he does extra collateral damage.
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Frederiksberg
Deity
I have updated the plan in the post above.
Looks like T108 may be doable if we can get enough units to both London and Munich.
I have time for 2-3 turns Saturday.
Looks like T108 may be doable if we can get enough units to both London and Munich.
I have time for 2-3 turns Saturday.
