[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Phoenix Rising

[lymond]

Guess 1 warrior can just go to V now....not sure if other has time for NW or just go back to T

WP should probably just stand on that ice hill on W part of island down there for now

Are we assuming we can trade for alpha next turn? I guess we can at least road the gems if we can't yet trade for it

I think Infamous might as well scout out that copper island to the N...I don't think movement matters much....

Trips takes citizen over forest tile

V - farm or coast tile?'

elite in the house!

yep...cancel action on Fred...usually do that when worker has new plan following turn

yep..more growth in V now and slow GM some ..not sure we want one short term.

Should V take the farm instead of coast tile?

all looks good to me...I'm green if we are ready

Delete poor WP? Noooooooooooo! okay..yes

We all bow our heads in reverence to the great sacrifice WP made for PR and humanity

We may want V to put more hammers in Henge next turn simply as it has more hammers. T can build research or whatever for a bit

yep...need to see tech screen before doing much of anything next turn

 

[Tonny]

2 warriors to be moved
infamous
donkey and wulfie and mr ed
and ofc WP

sb and peter might meet next turn if both do the perfect moves

wulfie onto Das Boot and towards KS? -> check
donkey to gems and mr ed too? -> check
wp back to hill to enjoy the view? -> check
infamous... towards ks for whale? -> heading back and scouting a bit -> check
fred has stopped -> check
1 warrior NW, and to V -> check

yep, SB might be fishing "our" Clam soon

good point on Trips for citizen

elite
new upload
just to check the cities

next turn:
nw to whip lh
bib can build research
v can build research
trips to whip

sorry to say it too, i'm ready to kill our wp ... one minute of silence plz
proceeding then
-------
bello to chop?
upload
no trades possible yet
i've set the cities on research, but V can do Henge

 

[Fippy]

Back, looking.

Hmm warriors, i think sending 1 to NW should work.
We build library etc there, so good if it gets happy from elsewhere.

Other one could go into V, and next into Trips i think.
T should be fine.

I agree with Boot and gems moves, preparing for IW. Worst case they road.
Infamous we can decide later i guess, east for now.

Fred should be stopped, or may move too fast next turn.

G can work deer over silver, happy holds still at size 8.
Better if we get food first for Caste.
Trips citizen was mentioned.

V is more tricky, leaning towards 1f furs over 1 scientist here.
Not a huge beakers difference, and we want food for Paci.
Eventually gets evened out with faster size 7 (4t instead of 6t).
Coast is fine, we care more about gains now than with Moai overall.

All good, we should talk about WP..paying 1 supply cost seems to favor deleting.
Might occur again later, and i really doubt we meet an AI there.

NW should not whip LH next turn, losing 1 food and horsies seems like a bad deal.

 

[Gumbolt]

Oh missed the new page.

Does it matter when we chop these 2 forest? Only thought is longer we leave them small chance of a regrowth.

If we think we will get iron then a worker should at least start roading. Not sure Peter has IW but it may not matter.

Looking good. Scientists in full actions now. Green.

Given Ocean tiles if Wp costs us gold delete.

I think make sure about any whips in thread before doing them.

Hey Elite.

Be interesting to see trade screen once alphabet in.

They both have IW. If only they would decide to actually meet. I do hope we don't get unlucky on that as delayed gems would be v frustrating.

The game knows exactly where they both are. Computer says no! Never watched it but probably.

Wonder when AI might actually build Hanging Gardens? Research more important for COL.

Mine would help towards library later. Fur vs scientists. As no food scientists long term better?

Let the wulf free to roam on land.

V on research we need COL.

Can't rely on SH fail gold. The AI may never build it.

Green here.

 

[elitetroops]

I haven't catched up with the current micro and short term plans yet. Green for everything for now.

 

[Fippy]

Darn they will not meet now, so annoying.

I support keeping research for now, we will get a better idea on CoL in 2t, until then we should push. Some gold is not worth risking our main goal.

Ed can cancel action just in case they meet by dumb luck.

No chops those forests are too valuable, we have to think about something else.

Wulfie landed i assume?
I dun understand, why should he not land.

Mine on furs for Bello should be fine, we want some hammers up there (CH, library)

So let's keep V on research, with gold running out we are not sure at all on CoL in 4t.
I can only repeat, we should not risk a big goal for some small coins.
Green, 250 or 270 SH failgold would not change things now.

 

[lymond]

Yep..dudes moved the wrong way

good...Trips preset to HG

I'd say V continue on some Henge here

Do we want to mine the furs in NW instead of camp? We have a couple more furs if needed that are less valuable or not BFC and Bibs grabs another later

we could also just prechop forest up there, including the one SW of G which will be in borders in 14t

Wulf can land ..might as well

I think Henge in V is debatable..more research now or more valuable gold a bit later

Not sure we are yet in sync on V

ok..seems I'm outvoted...I think those coins might helps us get CoL

green

ais will build it ..could fall any turn now really

 

[Tonny]

Gardens are very far away until being built, it will not help us immediately towards col-philo
V for Henge -> check
leaves us Bello... chop into library?
Ed doin nothin'

I could connect the horses to trade or go onto furs (to mine or camp)

wulfie is still barking and rockin the boat (was waiting on some magical advise) I will land him this turn ofc

bello onto furs to mine
V set at Henge research
Wulfie roams free in KS
green?
changed V to research and proceeding then... doing last double check
----------
i must have missed it earlier, judaism was founded 1120bc
still no trades

wulfie could start a road towards marble, nothing else to do right now.
Fred can choose which forest at Trips, I vote 1W (it has best chances for regrowth)
Das Boot stays close to KS for Wulfie
upload
KS doesn't really need to build the Dun if all other cities stay at research. This means 1t earlier Moai and Granary.
Wulfie to unroaded forest -> check
Fred 1W -> check
HG in Trips stays on this turn (t82 it goes off)

0% now, means definitely 100% next turn, SH could go every turn, so binary imo is best now

do you have an opinion on gifting meditation to Peter/SB?
Sounds obvious as I see it now... no gifts yet

too much text now

overflow does not apply here, for meditation we had 1 prereq and for ph also 1 prereq. no difference there.

 

[elitetroops]

I see currency would also be researched in two turns. Why go through Med and PH instead? Are we still considering oracle?

Sorry if it's a stupid question.. still trying to figure out what we're trying to achieve here.

Ok, I see...

Sorry, have to disappear every now and then, working on some other stuff also.

Don't know anything special about tundra forest growth. I can have a look.

Not sure about that research question either. Intuitively I would guess bonuses are applied when beakers are put into the tech and not apply to overflow. But haven't looked into this issue ever.
..Oh, saw the quote now. My intuition was wrong.

I checked forest growth in the code. It only checks for canHaveFeature, otherwise no distinction between terrain types. Forest regrowth on tundra should be the same as plains or grasslands. Also, can't regrow if there's a unit in the tile, the tile is improved, or the tile has some bonus that cannot exist in forests.

 

[lymond]

philo bulb, elite

Maybe the scouts will time out right..still a ways to move for that 1 scout..he has two up there
Ofc, they may hug the outer edge ..ugh

hey elite...you know anything about tundra forest regrowth possibility?

1W of Trips makes sense to me, ton

Without checking..I'd assume the rounding issue is completely gone now so any % slider should be fine
logic does seem to suggest a higher slider would be best on PH, but elite would know best

AIs seem highly likely not to tech Med for a long time if already avoided....very good chance to get gold from them for it

2005..wow...but seems to imply maxxing I think

parsed out an important part for you

Overflow

The overflow is calculated by the modifiers from the PREVIOUS Technology. Therefore, if you finished researching Writing this turn, and you had all THREE optional requirements, the overflow beakers which applied to your next technology would be equal to however many you had left USING THE MODIFIERS FOR Writing after finishing Writing. So, your Requirements modifier would be 1.6 (1.2 * 3). So, you could conceivable get a significant boost toward your next tech OVER WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN if you have a lot of overflow.

elite, bigger question right now is whether to raise slider as high as we can on PH since Pete knows it...would it be of benefit

Henge falling in next coupla turns would be a godsend

Good job! So 0% this turn it is...

We sure HG in Trips ..just akin' again...is food gained over food lost there?
okie..just makin' sure

I don't really understand Dun whip myself either....we have 120H coming to Maoi and 8 base hammers there

yeah..not sure testing that is solving anything..what is live is what is live..we either get CoL in 2 or we can't...just max things out as best as possible as My is doing here.

greentastic

ah..good...never recall seeing tundra regrowth before but I usually chop it all away if I have a city in tundra anyway

 

[Fippy]

Yep cannot afford currency currently, too much to research that and CoL.
If they are not meeting until SB scouts want to move back into V area, we close borders

Agree with 1w forest.
Wulfie could chop the not roaded forest imo, we only need 1 and he stays close to possible Iron spot in middle.

Special question (maybe Elite knows), if we get a small bonus for Peter having PH, should we keep our slider as high as we can?
I think we cannot rely on he's reading currently.
I would go with logic then, and keep slider up.

Yep i do, no tech gifts imo until currency (maybe we can pick up some gold).
If they ask, sure for diplo.

Walls of text, not helping me currently.
Think it's something worth knowing, testing brb.

I had way more gold on test, i think we are in deep trouble with CoL in 2t after PH.

Tested, higher slider now does not add more beakers from PH.
We can (or rather must) go 0%.

I suggest we add the scientist in V for sea tile, this will be way too close to look at growth..
G on research.
NW on research.

I don't like the dun whip much.
Moai are nice earlier but not that important.

Cannot be tested without huge effort of creating equal test games.
G can afford research, warrior should still be in time, V scientist over sea will always be okay, and NW loses some library hammers for later but that shouldn't bother us that much.
Next turn we can see the whole situation.

Oki, green with trips too.

 

[Gumbolt]

Jud went 2-3 turns back. Ai need to meet before we get any trades. Worst case scenario we close borders with SB? Force his scouts into a small area.

Russians have PH. So could be building Oracle too.

I would of thought the OF had no bonus on it? Albeit PH should be cheaper if Russians know it.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/technology-research-explained.146163/
Does this help?

Try adding PH to his techs on test game and then remove them.

In which case we need to up slider now?

2005. It may have been revised since then. Always searching for articles.

What else remains for this turn? Is an upload worth it?

None of the AI had med so we got no discount there. One has PH. The question is do we get additional OF here as Russians know the tech already.

Why did test have way more gold? Perhaps OF or SH arrived?

Test game had 223 gold on T79. Live game 153 gold on T79. 70 difference.

If were in any doubt here we should pause and test. I meant regards to the difference of gold on test game.

In that case 0% science this turn.

Yep look at science once we know how much OF makes sense.

Green.

I think we wanted growth for later?

 

[Tonny]

upload

slider at 0% -> check

but not proceeding yet, because we might not get CoL on t84.
KS can start on Dun now and whip it one turn later than tested if we don't reach CoL as anticipated. Whipping the Dun 1t later means no loss of working the stone at KS and then moai will finish t92.
A big decision to make here.

Trips: we're gaining food with HG, it has been tested

In doubt here... needs testing

Dun whip was only there in the first place if we were going for failgold moai. I'll forget about it now

very well:
all cities research, except Trips and KS
V coast gone, is now a scientist
slider at 0% (+31 gold and +86 science now)

Trips can go research as well, 2 chops alone will finish lh

green?

wait... V can switch furs from tundra to hill, 1 bit of research more... ok nope

proceeding then

 

[Fippy]

I think 1c for 1f would not be a good deal, too small amount.

Great, and we only made some logical adjustments, can switch back to normal then

Hmm i wonder if we should check out that small area at SB wine hill, or go to island.
Warrior 4 can certainly wait with making his moves there, happy for much later.
Putting him on the mine would be reasonable, if T needs happy first or so.

Ed i suggest road 1 NE, needed for gems connection later.
Or 1NW if we keep speculating on IW trade, no river crossing there.

V on farm and losing 1 scientist is certainly fine.

Agree on 100%, no reason not to imo.
Nothing more to add here.

 

[Tonny]

We are totally save on CoL
upload

magic has moves and mr ed has moves
i like to have Boot near KS
I've put slider at 60% for show

Trips can grow again

i vote for magic to go east, there could be an island which might allow us a circumnavigation bonus

Ed NW is also possible for connection and keeps him closer to V for chops, T is done for now

Peter has a great scientist btw (almost forgot to mention)

I'd rather set it at 100% now
magic going east -> check
Ed NW and road
V on farm -> check
nothing left to do
green?

upload t83, nothing done yet
Oracle has been built!

 

[lymond]

yay!

Do we want to just pick up warrior for Trips and then scout? Might save time on unit supply?

V could grow this turn unless we need the beakers

true...keep him next to T or just use him mp there anyway..can always get a new warrior to Trips later

Yep ..I think boat E first is a go

academy for him seems highly likely
he does not have med..gumbo....CoL on the otherhand would kinda suck

Yeah, if we can go 100% now..then sure..of course

verde!

PP has a granary now..Cahokia still does not

Well..it was not CoL at least...maybe someone got MC

flurbin' unreal that Oracle was built before Henge..ha

I thought we had them on Peter a long time ago

 

[Gumbolt]

Good stuff.

2 turns will work. Hopefully no suprise Oracle here.

I thought Galley would explore island to north of SB.

He would likely create an academy. Unless he bulbs a tech. Very unlikely? If he completes Oracle and bulbs Tao that would be heart breaking.

Green here.

Are we not focusing EP on one AI now?

Least conf is still there. Guessing they took MC or something else? Monarchy?

Well least we don't need to discuss Oracle any more. .

Stone Henge is a mystery.

V was 26/32 last turn. So 30 is correct.

If we close borders with SB we lose 4c in trade routes. Albeit only 2c a turn.

It was like that when we all said green. Can't moan now.

Yes no theo is good. Danger of a Theo bulb but we will see.

Our AP build will be very slow here.

 

[Fippy]

Wow we can feel good about not thinking about Oracle now, really good..would have been close to impossible with all that work we did on GLH and Pyras.
(and Bibs out cos not coastal)
But seriously before SH, well they do build wonders and it will get built, good for us more gold.

What a turn of events, we could have as well lost something else like CoL.. team for reaching our goals.

Nites Tonny, well yup V could have grown but no biggie.

Caste will be just in time for G to delay growth and add scientist, i love that city.

Also, no Theo picked with Oracle..should be good for AP plans?
Currency next i think, more passive commerce and gold trades with AIs.
Ofc if we had SH gold yet we could just race thru both..

Elite on new page

 

[Tonny]

Off to bed now, keeping the suspense alive for tomorrow
Nitey all

V sacrificed growth for a scientist to make sure we got CoL in time

I didn't look at the EP screen, did not think about it. It does not matter much imo.
Can set it at Peter again

It was nerve wrecking! I saw Oracle and thought NOOOOO .... not CoL plz!!! lol

 

[lymond]

Wasn't V supposed to grow last turn?

SB +4 now with OB

yep, idea was to put scientist on the farm in V..shoulda been fine on CoL...but not big deal

EP will matter more when Pete meets SB if he adjusts...may have seen his teching sooner.

Nites

Pete also has OB bonus

(with farm instead of scientist V woulda grown, gumbo)

Theo is next I assume....Poly>Mono>Theo

Not sure it is worth closing borders on Sb..they will meet

Currency first sounds like a weiner

I just hope they build the darn wonder in the next 8 turns or we start losing hammers in Bibs

my and I both instructed the move, gumbo...ha..you are just prolonging this when I'm already past it