[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Unusual Suspects

[SittinDown]

Glad to see you again Zhary.

• I'm good with writing next.
• I like the 3+ food site, so I'd vote 2N of horse.
• Anyone know what's our current ETA on writing, based on current maintenence?
  • Leaning towards waiting a little bit on settling #4. It's very far from the capital, and it's maintenance might be crippling.

 

[kcd_swede]

Writing is 187 beakers at the moment... could get cheaper as AI advance. We should work the camp... growth in capitol decreases from 9t to 13t, but net is 3 commerce.

We pay 6gpt for city maintenance.

With the camp, running at 50% research, we gain 1gpt and get writing in 16t. Binary would be a little better, by 1t or so.
With another city, guess maint goes up to 9 or 10 gpt, we sustain 30% research or 26t writing. But a city 2N from horse would work crab at start (+2commerce) so best guess is we'd get writing in 15t if we wait to settle, and in 20 or 21t if we settle now.

Earliest we could settle is 2t from now as the settler needs to move, but has movement for this turn (26) remaining.

 

[SittinDown]

Sounds good to me.

I like working the camp in the cap.

Sounds like settling sooner is better.

• All food is seafood at 2N. Maybe 1- WB, then worker (horses for faster WB's), then probably 2 - WB.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

The only reason we're working the forest in Bibracte is because the city just grew and it auto-selected. Definitely use the fur.

I agree, 2N of horses in the northwest is better. The second silver might get picked up by another city. At any rate, 3 food / 2 luxury / 1 horse is better than 2 food / 3 luxury / 1 horse. Not sure how I missed that the crab was farther away. I'm in favor of settling it right away. It will more than make up for the higher maintenance in just a few turns.

I strongly favor writing next. I don't think we're in that much of a hurry to defend against dogs. We need open borders, both to make Sitting Bull more friendly to us and also to get through his land.

How safe do we really feel continuing to explore with settlers? I know there aren't any barbarians, but Sitting Bull or any other aggressive AI taking a pot shot at a settler completely loses the game. We can't win without all seven cities. That might be an argument for wheel after writing, so we can explore with 2-move chariots, but we can decide that after writing comes in.

It's going to be difficult to successfully take a city from protective Sitting Bull with a CASTLE, even *after* we get cats.

 

[SittinDown]

• Green on Writing now, and Settle 2N ASAP, and work furs.

Agree that we shouldn't scout more with settlers. Work Boats & Warrior / Chariot would be good.

 

[kcd_swede]

I'll put a more detailed plan up later today and have you guys give feedback.

basically, run 0%research while gathering cash to fund a run at writing, found a city at 2N from the horse, and improve stuff and wb scouting. I will try to figure out how many turns it will be before we go to 100% on writing, and propose we pause there - and probably hand off to another active player at that point. pause earlier if significant events happen.

 

[Zhary]

Do we have a mid term strategy yet? I didn't see any. I especially think about Oracle something, do an early cs sling even before bw and pottery sounds unusual but not to crazy here.
The gran/whip combo is great for settlers and early rush and we have the need for neither here.
Then there is also the risk of us heeing isolated with SB. So maybe we should think about the astro bulb path too.

 

[SittinDown]

Or short-term goals are to get the economy going and to explore so that we can develop a good mid-term strategy.

Going for writing now opens up good options including Oracle. I think we all implicitly agreed that wheel / pottery is not a priority, but that BW may be for chopping and metal discovery.

We can see what WB scouting comes up with before deciding about Astro.

 

[kcd_swede]

ok then... propose PPP:

about 9t at 0% research (will give us for the next turnset approx enough gold --94-- to do 9t at 100% and learn writing).
Settle 2N from horse asap (=t28).
Adjust playing turns of gold gathering to assure enough to run 100% research to writing - not certain what maint will look like).

Bibracte
work the beaver
improve the cow, then camp the deer
finish wb
build? another wb or another worker?

Vienne
finish worker
build monument
improve horse, then wheat at Tolosa

Tolosa
keep working on monument

New City
build wb? or monument?
work the crab


So, answers to the questions I can play to filled coffers.

 

[SittinDown]

• I will have time later to open up the test game and verify how expensive that site is on maintenance if we want to know, but I'm not sure the difference of a couple of GPT will sway our decision anyway.

• Bib - after WB, I'd say WB - we need both scouting, and to improve fish up at the 2N site. Another worker will run out of stuff to do pretty quickly.
• New City - Can it build a WB before Bib would get a WB up there? IF so, WB, otherwise, probably monument. [ugh, no BW is painful!]

KCD - I like your idea of renaming the cities - though I guess we can use the default ones until we commit a city for it's purpose?

 

[Deckhand]

Green

Sorry I missed a few days. Time for Civ is still limited. Didn't even start botm192 with ends today.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

If Bibracte can get a workboat up there as fast as new city can self-build (or faster), I'd have new city start a monument.

Green

 

[Zhary]

Green but I would consider failgold henge instead of a second wb.
By the way is there any updated testgame?
Kcd could you upload the latest game paused without a tech choice dialogue? I wanted to see things in detail myself but couldn't do that now.

 

[kcd_swede]

KCD - I like your idea of renaming the cities - though I guess we can use the default ones until we commit a city for it's purpose?

Definitely... it would only create confusion if we had to rename cities if we changed our minds. Any city with a Gallic name is not yet commited to a purpose.

Check the wb travel time to New City when you check its maint burdon. I suspect it is faster to build one in place, or at least not much slower. And scouting is probably a bigger priority to save a few turns, imo.

 

[SittinDown]

I didn't get around to updating the test game last night. I will get to it tonight.

You're probably right on the scouting. That New City will be a real slow starter though - an extra WB from the cap would help a lot.

 

[SittinDown]

FYI - I'm still Green on the plan regardless of what the maintenance cost is for New City.

I think Scouting with another WB is better than putting fail gold into SH, at least until we get a WB out for West and South scouting.

 

[kcd_swede]

Umm... I started and came quickly to realize I was forced to start making decisions we hadn't discussed. So I paused, saved, and uploaded. Since the game is paused, you should be able to look around without risks. I attach it here as well for convenience. Just be aware that this is the REAL save and you cannot make any irreversible changes!

Basically we have more workers than I thought and nobody caught my mistake that Vienne already has a monument! (I was testing you all, and you failed!) j/k... I had the save and didn't even see it.

Maint is 6gpt on New City. The wb from Bib is going N to help new city which makes a monument (11 turns to travel versus about 21t including growth after 11t in new city). Bib makes another wb to head south. Vienne makes Henge fail gold, Tol makes monument. Vienne expands in 1t and we have 2 workers... how tpo deploy?

 

[SittinDown]

Thanks for pausing. I'll look in a couple hours - still on the clock.

My gut instinct is

• Tol's worker should improve pasture after wheat is improved, then head back to Tol to begin improving Furs, or assist with Horse-pasture depending on timing of border pop in Tol.

• Vienne's worker should improve Horses until border pop, then improve Rice, then finish Horses.

 

[SittinDown]

Looked at the save:

My votes:

• WB goes to improve Crab. Next WB from capital goes South.
• Bib's worker improves flat-furs,
  
• Tol's worker moves to improve SHEEP, then moves back to start improving FURS. Tol probably work 1F 2H tile at size 2 to get monument faster. Workboat after monument.
  
• Vienne's worker finishes pasture then improves rice. Then maybe farm the wine?
  
  • Vienne works horse 1T, then sheep 1T, then finished pasture until Sheep is ready.

• (Improved river plains horses are as good as gold when you're doing fail gold - 6 GPT)

 

[kcd_swede]

Looked at the save:

My votes:

• WB goes to improve Crab. Next WB from capital goes South.
• Bib's worker improves flat-furs,
  
• Tol's worker moves to improve SHEEP, then moves back to start improving FURS. Tol probably work 1F 2H tile at size 2 to get monument faster. Workboat after monument.
  
• Vienne's worker finishes pasture then improves rice. Then maybe farm the wine?
  • Vienne works horse 1T, then sheep 1T, then finished pasture until Sheep is ready.

• (Improved river plains horses are as good as gold when you're doing fail gold - 6 GPT)

Sounds like a good plan. Green from me. I can play the next 10t or so if everyone else is good with it. As for Stonehenge fail gold... lets be sure not to forget and build it by accident. That would be