1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

SGOTM2 Germany - Team Alamo

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession GOTM (SGOTM)' started by mad-bax, May 15, 2004.

  1. bradleyfeanor

    bradleyfeanor King

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Thanks Alamo. Congrats to you on GOTM32 as well!

    Those Player Priorities look good to me, but I am a little confused on #4. Is that simply a trade to speed up Japan and make China like us more, or is there a more subtle reason behind it?
     
  2. alamo

    alamo bang!

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,569
    Location:
    Texas
    That was to get Japan started on Shakespears ASAP. China has Demo, which is needed for Free Artistry.

    Edit ii: If Cuivienen doesn't post first then go ahead and beat on Ghandi, bf.
     
  3. Cuivienen

    Cuivienen Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    8,011
    I thought bradleyfeanor was before me... Anyway, I would have had time had i seen this sooner, but I don't. Take it away, bf.
     
  4. bradleyfeanor

    bradleyfeanor King

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Location:
    St. Louis
    I won't be able to play until tomorrow (Monday) after work. If someone wants to slip in a turn before then (pending Alamo approval), feel free.
     
  5. alamo

    alamo bang!

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,569
    Location:
    Texas
    Cuivienen
    bradleyfeanor
    Shoe35

    Whoever grabs it first can go.

    Looks like we're actually ahead in turns, but there are 3 teams that have finished already.
     
  6. bradleyfeanor

    bradleyfeanor King

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Sorry team Alamo, but I didn't get off work until late. I will try to play tomorrow morning, but it might not be until tomorrow evening. If you can grab it Cuivienen, please do so!

    Brad
     
  7. Cuivienen

    Cuivienen Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    8,011
    Okay, then, got it.
     
  8. Cuivienen

    Cuivienen Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    8,011
    Rename Leipzig to 67_Hugelkuste and Karachi to 66_Karachi. Did anyone notice that the Indians have two island colonies near our coast? It'll take longer than expected to remove Gandhi from the world.

    1) --

    The Indians counterattack with... War Elephants :lol:
    The French begin withdrawing Workers from our territory (don't sneak attack us, Joan!)

    Lots of builds, no point in going into them all... Karachi finishes its Library, starts Harbor.

    Kolhapur has ONE Spearman in defence... We take it. Renamed 68_Kolhapur. Begin starvation.

    York starts the Military Academy.

    2) --

    Take Calcutta, this time from two Riflemen, two Cavalry and a Spearman. I guess India is getting its act together. Renamed and starved.

    Take Jaipur from a Rifle and Spear. Renamed and starved.

    3) --

    Take Madras from a drafted Rifle, a Cavalry and three Spears. Renamed and starved.

    4) --

    Trade Spices, Saltpeter and Scientific Methid to China for Silks, Democracy, World Map and 25 gpt.

    We get a GL attacking Hyderabad. I'm not sure what to do with him, but he heads back towards Karachi. Both Delhi and Hyderabad will fall next turn (Unless the Indians draft the hell out of both, which they might.)

    5) --

    We get Steel. The bad news? Japan already has Democracy. Where they got it from, I have no idea, but they have it. *sigh* Begin research on Free Artistry. Due in 4 at 30% (hehe)

    We complete Hoover Dam in Berlin [party]

    Bengal, one of the Indian island-cities, falls. Renamed 72_Bengal.

    Delhi falls with only token resistance (drafted Rifle, Cavalry and Longbow).

    After putting up an admirable defense, killing three Cavalry, Hyderabad's single Rifleman dies and the city is taken.

    6) --

    Just an aside -- we have solid, verifiable proof that the AI does, in fact, build Armies:



    7) --

    China offers 7 gold and 4 gpt for an RoP. Agreed!

    Capture Bombay, rename, starve, etc.

    8) --

    Discover Free Artistry. Trade to Japan for World Map, 12 gpt and 61 gold.
    York finishes the Military Academy. York is currently at 71 spt, but still needs a lot of Worker attention to reach full potential, which may well be over 100 spt.

    We take Chittagong, the other Indian island town. Renamed.

    We lose two Cavalry and an Infantry attacking Lahore and have no more troops in the area. I guess I bungled the invasion of India...

    9) --

    Well the above is really both turns 8 and 9... Kinda got mixed up.

    10) --

    Hyderabad flips :( We retake it.

    I'm out of time, so I left a lot of units unmoved.
     
  9. bradleyfeanor

    bradleyfeanor King

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Nice turns, Cuivienen. I don't believe I have ever seen an AI army outside of a scenario. Cool!
     
  10. SesnOfWthr

    SesnOfWthr True Believer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,684
    Location:
    Red Sox Nation
    I wouldn't say that was a bungle, CVN. I count about a dozen cities taken. Seems pretty good to me.

    Regarding the leader: Unless we have a bunch of elites available to try for another one, I say sit on him until we can gift fission to Japan, then rush Shakespeare's so they cascade to UN. We are rapidly approaching our endgame, and everyone needs to be on the same page for how this will play out.
     
  11. alamo

    alamo bang!

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,569
    Location:
    Texas
    Good moves, Cuivienen. RoP with China is good, though we'll get Mao's vote anyway.

    I agree on using the MGL to hurry Shakespear (after Japan gets Fission). We can build our own armies soon.

    Japan is probably researching FA itself, but we can go ahead and give it to them. That cav army is going to fight Mao, right?

    Culture flips are inevitable, if you play long enough. I gave up my last game after my belated continental campaign stalled due to a culture flip. I was probably going to loose anyway - Spain on an island while Jerxes runs away with the tech and military lead on a continent with backward wimps.

    Next Player
    ------------
    SensOfWthr
    alamo
    Cuivienen
    bradleyfeanor
    Shoe35
     
  12. SesnOfWthr

    SesnOfWthr True Believer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,684
    Location:
    Red Sox Nation
    They should have already started it. Now we just need to get to Fission before they can finish.
     
  13. alamo

    alamo bang!

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,569
    Location:
    Texas
    Yes, I see now. As we get closer to Fission we can start spending the seed money on research.

    We should start building infantry, and Panzers when MotoTran is done. Having 3 armies and the pentagon would be nice, too.

    We will have to wait for the vote to come up again after we capture the UN town, so we should be prepared to hold that town. Of course holding every town we capture will improve our score.

    The vote will be after 11 turns or 20 turns, depending on whether Toku calls a vote right after completing the UN.

    BTW, Team Akots has really shot up. They must be taking the second continent.
     
  14. bradleyfeanor

    bradleyfeanor King

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Location:
    St. Louis
    1415, preturn Everybody looks quite happy. Good. It looks like Japan probably got FA from the French, because Joan is building Shakespeare. We are losing 230+ gpt. I think I will let it go until we get Combustion, but we will fall below 2000g in the bank.

    We do not need all those cavalry around England because we have an ROP with her, so I keep 5 around the city and send the rest to the fronts.

    Man, I am in a tight spot militarily. We have 78 infantry and are building more, but they are all fortifying our cities on our old continent. We really only need about 20 there since we have railroads. Our new Indian cities stand empty next to Japanese troops. That’s an uncomfortable situation at best. Also, all our boats (only 9!) are up by the little island. It would take them 13 moves to get troops to the new continent, so there is nothing I can do in the short term. We are defenseless in the single place where we are vulnerable. Our leader is stranded there, and Japan has 12 cavalry and an army next to our undefended cities.

    I know we needed a few boats to go get the island cities, but I am not sure it was a wise idea to send all of them. There are troops onboard the ships, but I am not sure where they are going. I am about to spend a whole lot of money rushing galleons, because I can’t see any other option. Rush 3 galleons on the East coast and 3 on the west coast.

    There are a lot of our non-corrupt cities building military that still have no university or bank, so I switch them over. It is too early for building lots of military because the unit support will just slow us down. We still have plenty of time to amass troops to take the UN from Japan, and we have more than enough units to defend ourselves if we can get some transported to the new continent.

    Too bad we don’t have Sanitation, but I suppose it is a bit late for that now. We could have done 4-turn research and had a lot of money left over. I notice that our Lux deal with Japan will expire in 5 turns. Since it would be unwise to renew it, I look for any city with an unhappy person and set it to temple or cathedral.

    <Enter>

    IBT Our galleons to the north automove. I decide to let them because I am quite curious as to where they are going. 4 Jap Cavs and one army fortify outside the empty city of Calcutta.

    1420 Kill the drafted Rifle and the spear in Bangalore and we take it. Discovered a fortified Galleon in Rheims!?! Move troops into mountains near Japanese on our continent (our troops were on the plains), load up boats to send to new continent, rush a library in Bombay.

    IBT The troops outside Calcutta move elsewhere. Whew!

    1425 Build lots of stuff, move stuff. Combustion due next turn. The galleons stopped by the northern town of Bengal. I don’t know if that was their destination or if they stopped because a Japanese ship is next to them. The mystery remains.

    IBT Get Combustion, Mass Production due in 5 at -7gpt. We have 1535 in the bank.

    1430 Switch almost all coastal cities to either Harbor or Destroyer. Killed the Indians last city and took Lahore. The other troops are going to fortify the other cities and the border with Japan.

    1435 Switch all military builds (in cities that need no more improvements) to cavalry, because we simply don’t need any more Infantry: if we pull the Infantry from our cities to attack Japan (which will be perfectly safe, I promise!!!) It will also save us the unnecessary support cost. We don’t need cavalry either, but I will use them to rush the Destroyers and Harbors and such. We will be able to build Panzers soon, and the war with Japan is going to be a joke. Japan has communism and China has Sanitation. They are both a bit expensive right now so I wait. China has Replacable Parts, but they lack rubber and I’m not giving it to them. The Japanese city of Fukushima holds Japan’s only source of rubber, so we may want to keep that in mind.

    IBT We get the final palace expansion.

    1440 Begin setting up a chain of ships to reach Japan in one turn…when the time comes, of course. First I will upgrade them to Transports.

    1445 Upgrade some Galleons (and our old galley) to Transports.

    1450 Russia starts Shakespeare. You know guys, at this rate we might not be able to GET Japan to build the UN…

    IBT The Chinese capture Fukushima, the only source of Rubber the Japanese have!!! This could be bad, I think I sense a shift in the balance of power. China has been researching very rapidly during my turns—much faster than Japan. China also has much stronger cities (albeit less) than Japan.

    1455 Disband lots of new Cavalry, etc. etc. Trade China Industrialization for Sanitation and Maps.

    Japan demands Coal. Oh damn. Lets see, a 20 turn agreement with Japan. That should expire right before we get Fission. If I say no and they declare war, we can destroy them, but that isn’t what we want right now. I am afraid if I say no, we will be forced to kill many of Japans units, and China will pull definitively ahead of them. I hate to do it, but I give in. China is looking too strong in comparison to Japan. Since we now have an agreement, I go ahead and trade them for a luxury.

    1460 More of the same.

    1465 More of the same

    I was setting up a line of transports on either side of the continent so that we could transport troops to Japan in one turn once they get the UN. I was using the cavalry builds to rush a few temples and lots of destroyers (disbanding them in the destroyer-building cities). I didn’t want to build up our military before we need them, because all that does is slow down our research. But feel free to do whatever you want with them. We have an army, but I was saving him for Panzers, which we should have in 3 turns.
    We also have an available leader. We were saving him to build Shakespeare and flip the Japanese to the UN, but I am thinking that will not happen now.

    We now have a 20 turn agreement with Japan.

    There is oil near Canterbury but don't hook it up. It is the only source we have on the main continent, and we don’t want it exhausted.

    China is getting very strong. We may have a problem.

    Japan is a no-wonder-building #$%@$%#!!! How are we going to get these jokers to build the UN for us?

    >>SAVE<<
     
  15. SesnOfWthr

    SesnOfWthr True Believer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,684
    Location:
    Red Sox Nation
    I wonder if it might have been better to deny the demand and destroy Japan? Then there would be no doubt who the other UN vote would be. Also, what are we going to do to insure China doesn't get to Fission before Japan can get the UN?

    They do look like a solid set of turns though. I have to admit, I always forget about disbanding units in corrupt cities. One of many strategies I have yet to use very effectively.
     
  16. bradleyfeanor

    bradleyfeanor King

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Sesn, I completely agree on destroying Japan instead. Here is why I didn't: when they demanded coal, I immediately alt-tabbed out of civ in order to launch my browser, intending to ask for a team vote on the matter. Instead I got a computer freeze. :( I rebooted, and found my internet connection was down. :aargh: At that point, I decided that a paradigm shift in strategy (like attacking Japan and pushing China toward the UN) might not be appreciated by the team, so I didn't declare war. But I really, really, really wanted to. In the back of my mind I was also still worried about the vote though. Not having much experience with Diplo victories, I was slightly afraid that killing Japan and attacking China--the only civ that I KNOW will vote for us--might make it impossible to win by a vote for hundreds of years. If I had not had that fear I would have definitely destroyed Japan.

    So what say you Mr. Diplo-victory (Alamo), could we still have won the first vote if I had declared war on Japan?

    As far as the disbanding-units strategy goes, it is more economically sound than setting cities to weath in this situation. The drawback is that it is UNBELIEVABLY TEDIOUS! Say 10 Cavalry were built in a turn: for each one I had to go to F1 and find a city that needed some help: then I would have to go to Find City in order to locate dang thing, then move, then disband. :shakehead

    Doesn't exactly make for an exciting game, to say the least. But it did get us quite a few happy people and a few destroyers.
     
  17. alamo

    alamo bang!

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,569
    Location:
    Texas
    Bad luck with the PC - good thing you had autosave, eh?

    Giving Japan coal is ok - it will help them build the UN, right? I bet Toku would have backed down, as he was already having trouble with Mao. Having a short, defensive war with Japan would have been ok, though. We don't have to worry too much about breaking a trade deal with them in the final war.

    We absolutely need Japan to build the UN, as Toku is the bad boy of the work while Mao is the saint. Mao is obviously tech trading with our neighbors and is still allied with Liz, right? We should be prepared to take Mao out quickly if he gets near UN completion.

    We need to intervene in the Intra-Sino war. There are a couple of options.

    We could give Japan RoP immediately to counter the China RoP, and give them rubber if they can't retake their rubber town. Hopefully Toku would prevail and beat down the China menace.

    Alternately, we could form a wall across the continent and slow down the military campaign (and help Japan retake their town). Hopefully that would lead to a peace treaty and Japan's wonder build, but it is also a risk of provoking Toku to attack.

    Those boats must have been heading for Ghandi's last towns.

    I must say that disbanding troops still gives me a queasy feeling. If the AI was smart they would al suddenly dogpile on us and deal a fatal blow. Keep in mind there are a few Japanese towns on the home continent to take, also.

    BTW, hooking up resources does not affect the depletion, or so I have read.

    Next Player
    ------------
    SensOfWthr
    alamo
    Cuivienen
    bradleyfeanor
    Shoe35
     
  18. bradleyfeanor

    bradleyfeanor King

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Location:
    St. Louis
    I think both your ideas are good ones. I prefer the second option (because I detest attacking fortified infantry in a city), but giving Japan rubber and an ROP may be necessary given China's growing strength. If a wall of troops could encourage a peace treaty, though, that would be ideal. Was anyone else on the team able to look at the save, so we can get a few more opinions/options?

    You need not worry about an AI dogpile delivering a fatal blow. We are far, far beyond their ability to hurt militarily: we can bring around 50 infantry to bear at any location on our home continent, and we can produce several units per turn. In a few turns we will also have panzers, which we will not be disbanding :). The only thing we need to be careful of is that our palace and FP are defended in the case of ROP rape.

    I thought someone did an exhaustive experiment on resource exhaustion, but I can't remember who. I tried to google it but failed. IIRC, it showed that a resouce cannot expire unless it is connected by road.

    It will not add a significant amount to our score to take any Japanese cities other than the one that builds the UN, so I wouldn't take any unless we need to, even after we declare war. If we take a bunch of their cities away, wouldn't we end up facing China in the second UN vote rather than Japan?
     
  19. Shoe35

    Shoe35 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    76
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Got it,

    great turns

    hope I do as well
     
  20. alamo

    alamo bang!

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,569
    Location:
    Texas
    Oops - that is a very good point! We want Japan to have the next highest pop for sure!
     

Share This Page