1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

SGOTM2 Germany - Team scout

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession GOTM (SGOTM)' started by mad-bax, May 15, 2004.

  1. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,669
    Wow, I turn my back on this thread for twelve hours and there's another book to read. :lol:

    Tallanas, our cores look much healthier now--fine work. :goodjob:

    Mistfit, your idea of preparing Cologne to build the UN for the Russians is exceptionally clever. It might not work when the time comes, since getting the Russians to start the UN in one particular city will be harder than getting them to start it in any one of their good cities. But since the plan would help us a lot if it succeeded, and wouldn't hurt us much if it failed, I think we should definitely start building the appropriate improvements in Cologne--which means a hydro plant and all the happiness structures, as GK points out.

    When I say it wouldn't hurt us much if the Russians didn't start the UN in Cologne, I'm assuming that we'll be wiping them out anyway, to get rid of a vote against us in the election.
     
  2. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    OK maybe I'll start calling it the "crazy but not completely crazy idea"

    Edit: Who is our nearest competitor in the "winning the vote" sweepstakes?
    Is there any way we could injure their rep with the rest of the world?
     
  3. Tallanas

    Tallanas Gunboat Diplomat

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    543
    Location:
    An overactive imagination
    :sigh:

    Yet more weediness. Your question gave me serious pause for thought. I checked the back saves and the turn log and can find no record of changing this from the standard artillery builds... The only thing I can think is that I was changing the build order here when the crash occurred, and somehow it changed the order. However, Palace is next to Artillery in the build menu, so it may just have been a simple mis-click. I was having such a shocker that nothing would surprise me...

    In any event, there have been 2 turns production here, a total of 90 shields. They are yours to do with as you wish, as is the 4200 cash I bequeathe to you ;)

    Tal
     
  4. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,263
    Location:
    Check Six!
    Well... if there are 90 shields in the build queue, and an Infantryman costs 90 shields... we just recruited ourselves another grunt!
     
  5. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    @Northern Pike: My ideas on Russia building in Cologne

    Here is my rational in thinking that Russia will build there:
    1.) We should be able to make Cologne her best city
    2.) Even though AI lacks "intelligence" in most cases I believe that they do build wonders in their best cities.
    3.) I to agree that AI seems to not build the Manhatten Project (in my limited experiance I've never seen it)
    4.) Even if Cathy pulls computers for her free tech we still have a 50% chance that she will start the UN instead of the SETI in Cologne.
    5.) If we can pull it off it would be a great story for the "spoiler thead"
     
  6. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,669
    I agree with most of that. But the AI has a strong tendency to start a newly available Wonder in the first city which completes a build (by simple probability, this is likely to be a productive city), which is why spying on Russia's cities at the decisive moment will be crucial. Perhaps we should give the Russians Fission and Cologne at the same time, guaranteeing that Cologne won't have a build going when the AI considers the possibility of starting the UN there. But the AI will probably consider Moscow and some of its other core cites before Cologne on the interturn in question, so ideally we'd want to time things so that Russia's other towns would be in the middle of builds. Some fascinating complications....
     
  7. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Oh what a victory celebration it would be if we could pull that off and have the city flip back to us.

    I know it is seriously unlikely but a guy can dream
     
  8. Tallanas

    Tallanas Gunboat Diplomat

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    543
    Location:
    An overactive imagination
    If that happens, we are all going out immediately to buy lottery tickets ;)
     
  9. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,263
    Location:
    Check Six!
    Pre-flight check

    We've got some unhappy campers. Let's see... specialists, or lux tax...

    Wow! Lux tax at ZERO .. 10% looks like it will fix the problems.

    Start shopping Electronics...

    Russia will offer us Sanitation, Corporation, WM, 60g+134gpt.
    France San/Corp/34gpt

    I take the gold off the table, and sell it to Cathy for the two techs and WM
    We have a furs trade with France that is open. Trade Incense and Electronics to France for furs.

    I gift everybody else to parity...

    Take Science to 60%, Steel in 4.

    Rush a harbor in New Brandenburg
    Upgrade a caravel

    We have 52 workers (!) Change Hannover and Nuremberg to Factories. I don't want these GA shields to go to workers, and we may one day need a Navy
    New Dortmund and New Salzburg to courts (we have a team of 3 workers worker up there)
    Funfkirchen also gets changed to court. (Workers cost just as much gpt as infantry)

    Press <enter>

    IBT - The English request an audience, wanting MPP & RoP. She gets a gift of Saltpeter and Ivory instead. Elizabeth is now Gracious!

    Berlin and Frankfurt each train an Infantry, start on a Hospital. Munich finishes a Police station>Hospital. Bonn starts a hospital
    Salzburg Arty>Hospital
    Brandenburg Infantry>Hospital
    Leipzig Court>Hospital
    New Hannover Duct>University (I want New Cologne back!)
    New Brandenburg Harbor>Court
    Scoutsberg worker> Court

    The loyal citizens of Vladivostok have overthrown their oppresors and pledged their allegiance to us!!!



    Crap. Just what I need. Another hole in the Jungle to tend to.

    Decisions, decisions.... let's see...

    From a tactical standpoint, it would be nice to NOT have a russian town in our interior if we ever have to go after them.

    From a diplomatic standpoint, the thing to do is rebuff the rebels. :mischief:

    Then again, so what if it irritates Cathy a little bit? I have a rare opportunity here to be on the other side of a culture flip, piss Cathy off AND give Gengis' chain a good yank.

    I take the city. :devil2:

    ...to be continued...
     
  10. Tallanas

    Tallanas Gunboat Diplomat

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    543
    Location:
    An overactive imagination
    :lol:

    I imagine Cathy will come round when we give her Cologne... GK on the other hand... :hammer:
     
  11. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,263
    Location:
    Check Six!
    I forgot to post some of the turnlog last night.

    The rest of the first IBT...

    Surprise, surprise, the French start Hoover Dam.

    Turn 1 (1320)
    Lots and lots of worker turns here...
    Upgrade some units...
    something automoved... dangit.

    IBT - Hamburg Infantry>Hospital
    Dortmund Police Station>Hospital
    New Berlin Bank>Hospital
    New Frankfurt University>Bank

    The Russians are building Hoover Dam

    Turn 2 (1325)
    New Munich hires a tax collector.
    Let's see... China and India are at war... both lack Rubber, China lacks saltpeter.
    China is in Republic, India in Communism. Everyone else is in Democracy.
    I rush the University in New Hannover, because I can.
    I do some trimming of the landscape.... and that's pretty much it.

    IBT - The French propose MPP/RoP
    Leipzig Court>Worker (hit by pollution)

    Hoover Dam comes online in Konigsberg. Starts a University

    Cologne Hospital>Coal Plant (Can't build Hydro, because it's already there, and will come off-line when disconnected from Hoover...)

    Stuttgart Police Station>Worker
    New Hamburg Arty>Hospital
    New K'burg Police Station>Bank
    New Munich Factory>Market
    New Hannover University>Temple
    Tallatown Worker>Worker

    Turn 3 (1330)
    The 52 workers that seemed like a lot a minute ago don't seem like so many now... given the shape of our terrain.

    Ghandi has recaptured his source of Dyes. He wants Saltpeter and Rubber. Playing the "Balance of Power" game, I trade him Rubber and 300g for them. That should let him upgrade some troops. I then turn right around and give Rubber to the Chinese. Neither has saltpeter (which means no cav).

    Get the pollution cleaned up in Leipzig, and switch it to a bank.

    Turn research down...

    IBT - not much

    Steel comes in. No choice but refining.
    Berlin Hospital>worker
    Frankfurt Hospital>Infantry
    Heidleburg Hospital>Infantry
    Bremen Hospital>Worker
    Our people want to build the Battlefield Medicine!
    Stuttgart Worker>University
    Salzburg Hospital>Worker
    Brandenburg Hospital>Artillery

    Turn 4 (1335)

    There are some countries who seriously need some coal.. and we've got 2 that aren't hooked up. One is near Mistburg, which needs a culture boost. I rush a temple for 208, then a University for 160g after short rushing with a temple for 208g. Then I rush a University in Funfkirchen for 280g. Why? Because I am sick of culture flips, and because I can. :D While I'm at it, Vladivostok gets a Library, so we can claim some spices.

    We hook up one of our sources of coal... near New K'burg...

    I'm getting a little tired... and I pulled a :smoke: move. I just noted that I didn't actually turn research down like I intended to... so I'm going to save the game at this point and come back to it tomorrow night.
     
  12. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Looks good so far. Note I can't pick up the game until thursday evening so take your time.
     
  13. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,263
    Location:
    Check Six!
    Back to the game... Turn 4 (1335)

    In the diplo check I note that I gave Cathy 2gpt for something.. it must have been an accidental double-click on my part, because I don' thing we got anything useful for it...

    finish some worker moves, press <Enter>

    IBT - a couple of Russian longbows show up on the border, but they appear to be patrolling...

    Berlin Worker>... TEMPLE! (I'm only going to do this in our most productive cities) | Hamburg Hospital>Temple | Konigsberg University>Bank | Munich Hospital>Temple | Bremen Worker>Infantry | Bonn Hospital>Worker | Salzburg Worker> Temple (Temples and Cathedrals should make us less sensitive to the loss of a lux when we kick off our UN conquest gambit...and I think we can afford them in the core)
    New Berlin Hospital>Temple | New Leipzig Hospital>Temple | Vladivostok Library>Court | Funfkirchen University>Court | Mistberg University>Court

    Turn 5 (1340)
    We are up Steel and Radio on the whole world. Nobody has any techs to trade. I hold for a moment, suspicious that somebody might be researching espionage.

    Mostly worker turns, put a couple infantry on our northern island.

    IBT -
    Berlin Temple>Cathedral
    Hamburg Temple>Cathedral (Like I said - productive cities...)
    Frankfurt Infantry>Temple | Munich Temple>Cathedral | Heidleburg Infantry>Temple | Cologne Coal Plant>Worker | Bonn Worker>Temple | Salzburg Temple>Cathedral | Dortmund Hospital>Infantry | Brandenburg Artillery>Artillery | New Berlin Temple>Cathedral | New Frankfurt Bank>Worker | New Munich Market>University | New Nuremberg University>Barracks | New Hannover Temple>Cathedral | Talsburg worker>Worker

    Turn 6 (1345)
    Upgrade a cannon
    Disband a Pike in New Salzburg, relieved by an Infantry
    Disband a Spear in New Dortmund.
    Disband a Warrior in New Hannover
    Disband a Pike in Mistburg
    Upgrade our remaining cannon to artillery...
    Worker moves...

    IBT -
    Leipzig Bank>Hospital | Konigsberg Bank>Hospital | Frankfurt | Temple>Cathedral | Heidleberg Temple>Cathedral | Cologne Worker>Infantry | Bremen Infantry>Infantry | Stuttgart University>Bank | New Leipzig Temple>Cathedral | New Hamburg Hospital>Bank | New Frankfurt Worker>Hospital

    Turn 7
    New Bonn is connected now, fire the clown.

    Research to 40%, Refining next turn. We still have a monopoly on Steel and Radio. I hang on to them, because some AI jerk will want a monopoly price for Espionage, we have a wines deal coming due with Tokugawa soon, and we are approaching a split in the tech tree that will come after our Golden Age. I want to get Combustion, acquire Espionage, and work on Mass Production->Motorized Transportation, and maybe get the AI to research Flight for us.

    France still lacks coal, as does Japan. Our wines deal with Tokugawa comes up in 7 turns. Whaddya wanna bet that one of our coals disappears in 6 turns, and Tokugawa "discovers" a new source of coal?

    IBT - Refining comes in, Research to 60% to get Combustion in 4.
    F2 Check... We have TWO sources of OIL!!! [dance]

    Our oil is near New Brandenburg and New Salzburg.
    Correction, our oil is UNDER New Brandenburg and New Salzburg.

    Would anyone care to guess where these two towns are? :mischief:

    Berlin Cathedral>Infantry | Bonn Temple>Cathedral | Dortmund Infantry>Infantry | Brandenburg Artillery>Artillery | New K'burg Bank>Artillery
    New Nuremberg Rax>Police Station | New Bremen Market>Police Station | Tallatown Worker>Worker

    Turn 8 (1355)
    Put some infantry on the eastern tundra Island. Disband a spear. Upgrade a rifle.
    Some worker moves...

    IBT - WLTKD kicks off in size 13 Berlin.
    Hamburg Cathedral>Infantry | K'berg Hospital>Temple | Munich Cathedral>Infantry | Cologne Infantry>Infantry | Bremen Infantry>Infantry | Salzburg Cathedral>Artillery | New Berlin Cathedral>Rax | New Munich University>Bank

    We got hit by pollution on two unroaded mountains.

    Turn 9 (1360)

    Disband a Warrior in New Bonn, relieved by an Infantry.
    Relieve a Pike in Scoutsberg, disband a Pike
    Lots of worker moves...

    I have just about got all 8 inner tiles around Cologne finished...

    Diplo check - aside from my stupid 2gpt mis-click (14t left), we have Iron and Spices going to Cathy under a standing agreement... We should leave this as a standing deal until the time comes.

    IBT - Berlin Infantry>Infantry | Konigsberg Temple>Cathedral | Frankfurt Cathedral>Worker | Heidleburg Cathedral>Infantry | WLTKD kicks off in a couple of cities. | Dortmund Infantry>Infantry | Brandenburg Arty>Rax (We're going to have Barracks in any city capable of making a Panzer...)
    New Berlin Rax>Infantry | Hamburg Bank>Harbor | New K'burg Artillery>Temple (Culture and Happiness) | New Heidleburg Police Station>Worker | Talsburg worker>Court

    Turn 10 (1365)
    I leave one Artillery awake in Brandenburg so I remember where the reserve stack is...
    ...some worker moves...
    I do a diplo check that doesn't reveal anything new... then I do a map check that does reveal something that may be important.

    India does not have a single harbor. This means that it is absolutely imperative that we maintain good relations with Japan, or we lose the trade route to India.

    IBT - these Russian Longbows on the border are cracking me up!
    Leipzig Hospital>Temple | Hamburg Infantry>Infantry | Frankfurt Worker>Infantry | Munich Infantry>Infantry | Cologne Infantry>Infantry |
    Bremen Infantry>Infantry | Bonn Cathedral>Rax | Salzbug Artillery>Worker (will grow next turn) | Brandenburg Rax>Infantry | New Leipzig Cathedral>Rax | New Hamburg Harbor>Galleon | New Heidleburg Worker>Bank | New Hannover Cathedral>Market | New Stuttgart Police Station>Market

    FINALLY!!!! The AI have discovered a tech. The whole stinkin' world now knows Espionage.... except China. India has 354g, and is at war with china. Russia is the only other AI with any gold at all... GEE, I WONDER who discovered Espionage??!?!

    It looks like we've got a new tech power.

    Oh man - I just had a really devilish thought. We still have a monopoly on Radio. We could keep everybody but Cathy in the Industrial age. Hmmm....

    The wife is yammmering... where was I?

    Turn 11 (1370)

    Catherine offers Espionage, WM, 90g+40gpt for Steel. I take the gpt off the table and close the deal. We want gpt going towards flight here in another turn.

    Even after trading Steel to Cathy and GIFTING it to Joanie and Tokugawa, Ghandi will still offer me 350g+57gpt for Steel. I gift it to him. I gift Espionage and Steel to Mao to finish this "trading" round.

    Combustion is due next turn. I can take research to 30% and get it next turn, but I don't know when the GA will end...so I only take it to 40%.

    bump some military units, make some worker moves...and that's it.

    IBT - China and India sign peace. It's about dadgum time.
    Combustion comes in. Set Research to 50%, due in 4. We have 3359g+282gpt.

    Our People want to build the Intelligence Agency! Maybe we should.... NOT!!

    Note to team: I have deliberately avoided building Battlefield Medicine, and I will probably avoid the intelligence agency. We can use those as Manhattan Project pre-builds.

    Berlin Infantry>Infantry | Konigsberg starts a Police Station (Needs a Rax) | Heidleburg Infantry>Infantry | Stuttgart Bank>Hospital | Bonn Rax>Infantry | Salzburg Worker>Infantry | Dortmund Infantry>Infantry | New Berlin Infantry>Infantry | New Leipzig Rax>Police Station | New K'burg Temple>Cathedral | Frankfurt Hospital>Temple

    Turn 12 (1375)

    Time for another round of generous diplomacy. I dial up the world and teach them how to refine oil. Then I dial 'em all up again and teach them the art of Combusion. Now will one of you AI morons PLEASE research Flight for me!??!

    Disband a couple of Regular Rifles in Funfkirchen, and rush the court.

    IBT - Ghandi wanst MPP & RoP, gets 10g. He lacks, salt, oil, Spices, and Ivory. We have 11 turns left on a Dyes for Rubber deal.

    Our Civilization's Golden Age has ended.

    Leipzig Temple>Worker | Hamburg Infantry>Infantry | Frankfurt Infantry>Infantry | Munich Infantry>Infantry

    ...I missed some builds when the cat jumped in my lap

    did an F1 check, and the game crashed.

    "...to be continued..."
     
  14. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,669
    That sounds good. :goodjob: I'm glad you took the opportunity to build some happiness structures.

    Great call on the island oil. :lol:

    I see the point of putting the other civs in a position to research Flight for us, but it seems to me that the indiscriminate tech gifting should now stop. In other words, I agree that we should keep most of the AI civs in the IA until we see what decision the Russians make about the UN.
     
  15. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,263
    Location:
    Check Six!
    The harder I look at this, the more I like Mistfit's little "Gift-Cologne-to-the Russians-to-build-the-UN-there" gambit. To that end, I built a coal plant in Cologne, and I've got the jungle cleared out of the inner tiles.

    When I hit F1, I was planning to look at some of those cities that I had started Infantry in the IBT, and switch a few of them to wealth. Here's the tricky balance... (Mistfit - pay attention)

    I want to try and maintain 4-turn tech to Motorized Transportation - but I still want a positive cash flow. My thinking is that Mistfit's turnset will be the "Set Up" set. I think endgame will come very soon... and I think you (@NP) will need some cash to do a little city investigating.

    We should probably have a little discussion on the finer points of MPPs and RoPs... One or two of those could REALLY change this game...

    My current thinking:

    Research: maintain the monopoly on Radio. When we close out the Industrial Era, set research to Computers (so that we DON'T get computers) and hope we get Fission with the free tech. If no, it doesn't matter. Gift Cathy into the Modern Era. If SHE doesn't get Fission, it's time for a hard-burn to it, and a pre-build for Manhattan Project.

    Gift Cologne to Cathy at some opportune moment... build Panzers in every city we possibly can... and cross our fingers...

    ...when she builds the UN, sign MPP with the world, declare war, and leave a worker exposed. Attack on the next turn...

    How does that sound? Am I nuts? Am I breaking some stupid dogpile rule Genigs brought up a month and a half ago?
     
  16. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,669
    Have you posted the save? :confused:

    Conventional wisdom seems to be that in vanilla 1.29, a scientific civ will normally get Rocketry as its free MA tech. So probably this is the tech we should research so as not to get it free--though this is not a reliable trick, so no one should be surprised or feel bad if it doesn't work.

    That detail aside, I like the plan you've outlined.
     
  17. Tallanas

    Tallanas Gunboat Diplomat

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    543
    Location:
    An overactive imagination
    Yes, I like the plan for "Operation Cologne" - onr thing I might echo from NP is that it's time to stop playing Santa. Any future tech deals must contain either MPP clauses or some up front cash, maybe even some nice gpt. We really need very little from the AIs now in terms of research, but as Scout points out, we may be needing some serious slush funds...

    As for the tech to research when we swap ages, I am witholding opinion - I always seem to get the one I don't want, so I'm glad it's not my turns up for that ;)

    Other than that, nice turns, although I'd like a quick gander at the save, wink wink, nudge nudge...
     
  18. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    :lol:

    Nice to know I'm not the only one.


    Good set of turns!
     
  19. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,263
    Location:
    Check Six!
    I haven't posted the save yet, I logged on to the boards after the game crashed. Tonight when I get home I'll look and see what my best last save is, look at some other things...I was thinking about going ahead and giving Cologne to Cathy, to let her build a temple or something. I had originally intended to play 14 (Since Tal got cut short...) but it might be more fair of me to hand it off at this point, to let a couple of you have another set.

    As I was driving in to work this morning, I was thinking that we might want to consider this: Strategize our endgame, with emphasis on discussion between NP and Mistfit. The way this is taking shape, Mistfit's next turnset will be a critical setup with a tech goal (ushering in the Modern Era) and a military goal (building Panzers like a madman).

    Depending on where we are at the end of Mistfits turnset, I thought I might ask Northern Pike to do the honors, and end this madness.
     
  20. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,263
    Location:
    Check Six!
    A couple more thoughts:

    @NP: You're right - it's time to quit playing Santa until after we have the U.N. in hand. My goal in that last (very generous) round of tech gifting was to get the AI close to parity, and hope they'll research Flight for us. If we can buy Flight, it will shave 4-5 turns off this game.

    My thinking on setting the queue to Computers at the dawn of the Modern Era: I don't want computers as a free tech... In rethinking this, what I really don't want is for Cathy to acquire Computers (and Mech Infantry). As long as the queue is set to something OTHER THAN FISSION we should be okay. Rocketry is a valid tack...

    I'm sorry to keep you guys in the lurch on the save and screenies... my wife dragged me to some stupid Chamber of Commerce thing, and I didn't even get home until almost 9 last night. I'm actually glad I got as far as I did.

    @NP, would you rather I went ahead and posted the save tonight, and let you and Mistfit start working on setup/endgame?
     

Share This Page