SGOTM4 - Team Smackster

[Wotan]

@Dmanakho: My wishlist for my next turns: A galley or two to explore, and a stack of archers near Rome. I want to burn their iron before they can pump too many swordpikes (legs).

Galley prebuild in Teveste, to switch after MM. The Archers... I guess it will be Smackster who again attack the Romans, 10 turns seem a bit too few to have a stack of Archers outside Rome in.

Edit: Had a quick look at the current scores: Offa, Tao and Staff seem to have settled in place. 69 pts = 5 more than we have indicate that. The other teams have either moved one tile or in one case (50 pts) more than one tile...

 

[dmanakho]

Great turns Wotan and Smacskter!!!

I suggest we research Math 1st and start building catapults in addition to archers to attack Rome....
Once Oracle is finished We might try to squeese Lighthouse before Great Library. Lighthouse is not expensive and we should be able to build it in 20+ turns.
How big is population of Utica right now????
As i stated before I don't believe it can't grow beyond 8 shield producing citizens but we should bring it to that number as soon as we can.

@Tarkell. I will build up force for you, but not sure if there wil be enough time to send them down south during my turns... How many archers/catapults we need for succeful invasion?

EDIT: I understand everyone wants to postpone 'certified' GA.... so shall we never build our UU and use archers for defense as well as offence?

 

[smackster]

I'm not so worried about the pace of the game, and giving other teams an advantage. I doubt in this case they will be able to work out our victory condition anyway. As long as the next person who playing is clear what they should do then they should play their turns as soon as they are ready.

Personally I really enjoy the pace we take on this game, and it really keeps us involved. I think that is a benifit, it certainly does not get boring.

smackster

 

[smackster]

I looked at the map. Seems that the attack on Rome will have to go through a lot of their land to get to the iron. By the time we are there, they are sure to have settled that site west of Cumae. Ideally I want a galley from the east as that can dump troops within one space of the iron. This is a rare case where I would want to build a spearman, but can't as we don't want to kick of the GA. So we'll have to do that with 2 warriors. Can we get a galley built for that attack.

The method of attack would involve declaring war and moving our main troops in from the north. I would then give the Romans maybe 2 full turns, before dropping the troops off for the iron. I would assume that on the turn we attack they will have spare troops around Rome. So that if we drop our warriors off first turn, the spare will be there to protect the iron. With a 2 turn gap there is a better chance that our warriors will survive on their iron for a turn, and then we can cut it.

Cutting the iron seems to be key in this case, otherwise we'll face Legions in a Roman GA.

 

[Wotan]

Utica is currently at size 7, I added two workers to it to expand it to 7. Two reasons for this, first to gain a second shield in the city core, second to save the food from emptying out from the foodbox when it goes from size 6 - 7. If you did not know this, the food is retained on size 7 if you grow by use of a worker merging with the city. This also applies when going from 12 to 13.

I would have the worker roading the tile NNW Utica move to the hills SW of it and mine /road it before moving on to road through the mountains S of Utica, to allow us to move Catapults towards te Romans. The next Worker from Carthage go N to build road at "barb.factory" (remember to post an Archer there for sentry duty) and the second Worker first due S from Carthage , build road and then move to merge with Utica. Or maybe the other way around, first to Utica then N. We need the tile just S of Carthage roaded so a unit moving between C and U can do it in Two turns. There are two Rivers to traverse and a road there saves 1 turn.

With a Harbour in Utica the "pearls" will generate 3 food, that would allow Utica to be size 10 and work a third hills.

I have made some calculations and I would go Literature-Maths. They will take about 10 turns each to research and I guess 20 turns is too long to wait for Literature if we want to squeeze a Library between The Colussus and the Lighthouse.

The Galley will be ready in about 6 turns time. I suggest we build/plan for war on Rome to begin during Smacksters turns (sorry Tarkeel). Build the two Warriors we need after the two Workers in Carthage. I would like at least one (maybe 2) more volley of Archer/Worker/Worker before allowing Carthage to grow beyond 6.

Edit: Just noticed the "east" in Smacksters plan, the current Galley prebuild is on the West coast but Leptis Magna can switch to a Galley and sail down the east coast.

I agree with Smackster, the pace is good for the game.

 

[dmanakho]

I concur with Wotan's plan and i will try to read CAREFULLY his notes again before i play

I have made some calculations and I would go Literature-Maths. They will take about 10 turns each to research and I guess 20 turns is too long to wait for Literature if we want to squeeze a Library between The Colussus and the Lighthouse.

@Wotan: Did you mean "The Colussus" or "The Oracle"????? I'd prefer Oracle but I don't want to change the build and then make you mad


We will need bunch of archers to destroy Rome, by the time we start the war Rome will have legions and there is nothing we can do about it... We will also guaranteed to loose a battle (and more than one) to legions so Rome will be in GA... I'd like to have at least 3 archers agains each Roman legion to make sure we are not affected by RNG, but we can only guess how many legions Romans will have...

Another difficulty in waging that war is a long time sending fresh troops down south during the war, so we will have to have enough from the beginning.


EDIT: @Team: Do you think it is a good idea to rush library in Utica by building archers in Garthage and killing them in Utica for some shields????

 

[smackster]

Utica is currently at size 7, I added two workers to it to expand it to 7. Two reasons for this, first to gain a second shield in the city core, second to save the food from emptying out from the foodbox when it goes from size 6 - 7. If you did not know this, the food is retained on size 7 if you grow by use of a worker merging with the city. This also applies when going from 12 to 13.

I didn't not know that, its a good tip.

Also we need to build the Oracle, so switch it from Collossus. 4 culture points vs 3 I think.

 

[smackster]

EDIT: @Team: Do you think it is a good idea to rush library in Utica by building archers in Garthage and killing them in Utica for some shields????

I think there is merit to that plan, pop rush the library, and replace the pop with workers the same turn.

OK who knows how many shields you get for a pop rush?

 

[dmanakho]

I think there is merit to that plan, pop rush the library, and replace the pop with workers the same turn.

OK who knows how many shields you get for a pop rush?

Pop rush will cause unhappines and will most likely require us to use lux slider, while rushing archers is free of side-effects

 

[Wotan]

@Wotan: Did you mean "The Colussus" or "The Oracle"????? I'd prefer Oracle but I don't want to change the build and then make you mad

I have not considered the choice of Wonder. Colussus cost 200 shields, the Oracle 300, right? We are building the Colussus now and it will be ready in 13 turns, the Oracle in another 10 turns. Team, any opinion?

Agree with Dman, no pop rush, maybe Archer rush but I believe Utica will be able to build the Library in 6 turns when it is time for it with a single Archer sacrificed(5shields, right?). We have the food box about half full so we can put a 9th citizen into Utica and move it between the 3rd hill and the pearls as we need to and still avoid starving the city dry.

And, switch to Oracle, I agree on the benefits.

 

[dmanakho]

Oracle is more attractive choice with 1 extra cultural point and it doubles temple effect.... I think it will save us more money on luxury slider than extra commerce from Colossus and in a long run we will get more cultural points with Oracle.

 

[dmanakho]

We have the food box about half full so we can put a 9th citizen into Utica and move it between the 3rd hill and the pearls as we need to and still avoid starving the city dry.

Reiterate this again, please. I'd like to clearly understand your plan.
In my calculation it doesn't make sense to bring Utica above 8 in Despotism...
That was the max number of tiles citizen can work and city will stop growing at 8. 9th citizen would be placed on Pearls with 2 foods and no additional shields.... But then that will make use to increaze a lux slider, just because of that single city (I thought that was what i came up with).
My idea was to get city to size 8 and keep it there until we revolt, then irrigate grass land and put citizens on the the remaining hill and mountain squares.

 

[Wotan]

Reiterate this again, please. I'd like to clearly understand your plan.
In my calculation it doesn't make sense to bring Utica above 8 in Despotism...
That was the max number of tiles citizen can work and city will stop growing at 8. 9th citizen would be placed on Pearls with 2 foods and no additional shields.... But then that will make use to increaze a lux slider, just because of that single city (I thought that was what i came up with).
My idea was to get city to size 8 and keep it there until we revolt, then irrigate grass land and put citizens on the the remaining hill and mountain squares.

The Ivory will be connected by a Colony on the last turn you play, Dman. That will give another happy face everywhere. At size 9 Utica can either have a citizen on the pearls for a balance in food consumption, or placed on the coastal hills for two shields (if mined/roaded) but with a 1 food deficit. Since Utica is on IIRC 17 food now we can let it use the hills for 17 turns wo starving it dry.

5CC really takes us to the limits of micromanagement possibilities, doesn't it...

 

[dmanakho]

5CC really takes us to the limits of micromanagement possibilities, doesn't it...

I am scared of that fact already

What do we do if hypothetically Romans or someone else try to settle on Ivory coast.
Will we declare a war immediately?

 

[smackster]

I am scared of that fact already

What do we do if hypothetically Romans or someone else try to settle on Ivory coast.
Will we declare a war immediately?

But with so few cities to MM it is not really a chore, actually I think its quite fun. I hate doing MM for so many cities when there is so little to change.

We should have at least one spare warrior/worker combo near the ivory at all times. Rome do not have Map Making yet, but when they do and a galley comes by, we should just stop them from landing with our troops. We may need to road all the squares up there, so that we can move around more.

 

[dmanakho]

I am going to play my turns tonight, i will be checking the forum periodically until that if someone comes up with some important ideas.

 

[dmanakho]

T1 1475 BC Carthage Worker->Worker; worker is sent to road a hill near Utica. Another works towards ivory; Science slider down to 60%; MM in 2 turns

T2 1450 BC Carthage Worker->Archer; worker is sent up north to road barbarian hunting area.

T3 1425 BC MM is discovered and I am switching to Math, I think it is a right decision at this time. (and i really really afraid to piss of Wotan again ). Oracle will be built in 24 turns and literature ready in 13... There is no way we squeeze library in and between and I don't want to research literature sooner than we can start building GL, it will just make technology cheaper for AIs to research... Plus, if we want to fight Romans soon we will need catapults sooner than later.
Theveste and Leptis Magna have switched production to galleys. Romans demanded 24 gold, I gave them money; don’t think we can manage another war at the present time.

T4 1400 BC Carthage Archer->Worker; Moved Lux slider to 10%

T5 1375 BC Carthage Worker->Worker

T6 1350BC Carthage Worker-Archer; Theveste Galley->Barracks

T7 1325BC Leptis Magna Galley->Archer, Romans have established embassy in Carthage, Roman archer lost a battle to Barbarian warrior. Good!

T8 1300BC Vikings built The Colossus :-(; Hill near Utica is mined and roaded; Worker joins Utica population grows to 8. Worker is sent to road and mine last hill near Utica; Oracle is ready in 13 turns; mathematics in 4; Archer kills barbarian near Utica; Carthage Archer->Worker

T9 1275BC Carthage Worker->Worker

T10 1250BC Carthage Worker->Archer. I have left worker in town, Tarkeel will decide where he wants it to send. Ivory colony is established!!! More happy faces! Math in 2 turns.
Oracle in 11, just in time to finish Oracle and pre-build library a little bit and then rush it with archer when literature is researched....
That is if we want to research it now... may be we should research something else instead like code of laws and switch from Oracle to Lighthouse...

IMPORTANT!!!

We have to decide which wonder we want to build next after Oracle, if it is a lighthouse then we probably want to postpone researching literature, let’s not make it a cheap technology for AIs to get. If we decide to build Great Library right away since it will give us 6 cultural points then we should definitely go ahead and research literature… I actually doubt we are going to be able to build Great lighthouse, since once Oracle is completed AIs will do wonder cascading and have a very good chances to get ahead of us…. Although again we can start building a lighthouse and if someone builds it in front of us we will simply switch to GL or Palace (if literature is not ready yet) at that point. there is a cost associated with each wonder... Lighthouse costs 300 shields and Great Library 400.

MAP:

Firaxis score: 194 Jason score: 257

 

[scoutsout]

Checking in... @Smackster: Here's your delurk.

@Team: Smackter PM'd me, telling me you guys were short a pleyer here... I paged through the thread REAL fast to see that I don't know many of you ('cept DH, who I'm in with in Bede2...) I haven't really caught up on all my SG's yet (I hate hurricanes), but if you guys could wait until the weekend for me to catch up, I could join in if you guys want.

 

[DeceasedHorse]

Am I insane, but won't the collossus trigger a golden age for us? I'm probably thinking of the English in PTW though.

 

[Wotan]

Hi Scoutsout, welcome to the team, do not let them scare you with stories about the wrath of norsemen...

@Dmanakho: Good turns! I am just disappointed you have not roaded the tile just S of Carthage but Tarkeel can do that with the Worker you have left in Carthage.

Next set of turns, actions to take: First of all MM carthage before hitting return, it only need 8 shields so we gain one beaker by moving a citizen, especially since it might be the right time to build two Warriors for Smacksters commando galley approaching on the east coast. Maybe build Warriors next two "factory" volleys since we will need MPs in LM and T soon.

Also MM Theveste to once of the BGs since both workers will finish mining this turn, we gain one food. As I stated earlier, we need to MM this game to the limit!!!!! Check for these possibilities each turn, we only have 5 cities so it is not much of a burden to do it right. No shields/food/beakers lost to sloppy MMing please.

Move worker in C. S and road that tile!!!! Shortens the travel time between C and U by 1 turn.

Add one more worker to Utica and use it to balance production (hills/pearls as needed)when the third hills is mined.

The Archer finishing at Leptis Magna, move to Mine near Barb.Factory and move back and forth on road to check for Barb.Camps on "Land's End" each turn.

DO NOT MOVE THE TWO WARRIORS NEAR IVORY COLONY AT ALL, EVER! We risk barbarians if we do!

Start roading mountains S of Utica to make it possible to move Catapults through them.

Literature next, (Math was OK Dman)

Future plans: Start thinking about moving a city south when Rome falls. One tile SW of Rome is a nice spot especially when the city has reached 100 culture. Hippo is the obvious victim if we decide to shift locations.