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SGOTM5 - Team tao

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession GOTM (SGOTM)' started by mad-bax, Nov 20, 2004.

  1. tao

    tao Deity

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    What you do in these cases is capture lots of cities, make peace getting the 1-tile island as part of the deal, then declare war again and finish the AI.
     
  2. Furiey

    Furiey No Longer Just Lurking

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    Hadn't thought of that!

    Got it

    Will look tonight, but probably won't play until tomorrow

    edit: Sorry, but things have not gone to plan today and I've not had a chance to play. I will play tomorrow - no work then!
     
  3. Furiey

    Furiey No Longer Just Lurking

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    Looking at the save...

    I like Zwingli's suggestion, so, France is going to donate the Pyramids to our worthy cause. With 20 turns to expansion over the Iron, I think we'll want to be off before that, so a colony is in order. I also notice that Hyperbad on our island is now at size 2 - another target to get a second city on our continent (once our alliance against America ends of course)? Must ensure that Moscow is not left undefended when on the little French trip. We still have alliances in the war against the Iroquios - France's neighbours, but will be able to stop that before we declare on France.

    edit/add: Iroquios aren't too keen on peace at the moment though - they're insulted with straight peace and need 160 gold to agree to it :(
     
  4. Furiey

    Furiey No Longer Just Lurking

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    Not having much luck. Got to 130 BC and Civ crashed when I contacted Joan, I have contacted mad-bax so hopefully a solution will be forthcoming.

    In that short time, I built a colony on the Iron, India have built another city on our continent, France and Arabs have Monotheism. All suggestions welcome. Unfortunately I have visitors coming soon, so will probably have to finish tomorrow.
     
  5. tao

    tao Deity

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    Sounds like item 3 of the maintenance post:
     
  6. Furiey

    Furiey No Longer Just Lurking

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    Yes that's what it sounds like, I applied the fix as soon as it was posted however (and have tried reapplying it just in case something went wrong), and still get the problem.

    OK copying the files for Joan manually seemed to solve Joan, so copied the rest except for

    copy Mo_01.flc Mo_D01.flc
    copy Mo_02.flc Mo_D02.flc​

    which already exist. That appears to fix it. Batch file must not have done what was expected. Have to play tomorrow now though.

    edit/add: found the problem with the batch file and informed mad-bax. If I'd actually read the messages that it gave when I ran it - it would have been obvious it wasn't working! :crazyeye:
     
  7. Demiurge

    Demiurge Warlord

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    I think we want to hold off on that for a while yet. At least until we get the FP built as Zwingli mentioned, and a second core for unit production, in French territory. By waiting, we leave Tours at ring one. Subsequently we will build the FP faster, reducing corruption in our captured cities on the larger landmass. Hopefully the second core can build enough units to take the larger continent and our capital can focus on clearing up our own and the northern landmass.
     
  8. Furiey

    Furiey No Longer Just Lurking

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    150 BC (Turn 0): With the Pyramids, France looks like a good first target. I ask myself - will we want to attack France within 20 turns? (Moscow expansion time) – I answer yes, therefore I build a colony on the Iron; After struggling with the FA Advisor, I check Civ Assist for existing alliances we are currently at war with an alliance against the Iroquois, one of France’s neighbours, decide to wait at least until that expires before declaring. Press button.

    IBT: Barb appears from as yet unknown camp in the SE; India found Bengal near Hyperbad.

    130 BC (Turn 1): Moscow: Galley -> Sword; MM Moscow for 16 spt; Civ Assist says France, Arabs, Indians and Japan now have Monotheism. (This is where the crash problems occurred and I had to reload from the autosave) Move galleys out towards loading point, in trying to scroll map miss move Horse near Northern Worker (should still be safe); upgrade Veteran Warriors to Swords (5 off); debate long and hard about whether to sell Mono now, with 1 turn to go on our alliances against Iroq and Zulu, but 4 Civs now have it, so…

    declare war on France
    Spain: Alliance v France, 53 gold, WM for Monotheism
    Aztecs: Alliance v France, 49 gold, WM for Monotheism
    China: Alliance v France, 28 gold, WM for Monotheism
    Keltoi: 41 gold, WM for Monotheism
    Build Embassy with Mongols (see pic)
    Mongols: Alliance v France, 28 gold, WM for Monarchy

    With the WM trades we now see all 3 barb camps on our island.

    IBT: barb moves

    110 BC (Turn 2): Worker roads; Sword moves to protect Worker (he’ll go that way anyway); Alliances with Chinese v Zulu and Keltoi v Iroquois can be stopped at anytime, but I leave them running for now (Iroq want 160 gold for Peace and have gained Monotheism); injured Horse fortifies to heal; MM Moscow for 14 spt and Sword in 1 (should have done a Worker first, but too late now); just realised I started the road N in the wrong place – bad day yesterday.

    IBT: Keltoi cancel our alliance against the Iroquois, lose a galley to a Barb Galley

    90 BC (Turn 3): Moscow: Sword > Worker; sink Barb Galley

    IBT: Zzzz

    70 BC (Turn 4): Moscow: Worker > Sword; Moscow on 14 spt; continue moving Galleys to gather point.

    IBT: Zzzz

    50 BC (Turn 5): Moscow grows back to 16 spt; continue moving Galleys to gather point; workers move to new spot to road; We are now free to cancel our Alliance with the Chinese against the Zulu at any time.

    IBT: Ghandi wants our entire treasury to continue the Alliance against America, I say no; Barb appears near Iron Colony;

    30 BC (Turn 6): Moscow: Sword > Sword (16spt) move to deal with Barbs next turn.

    IBT: England declares War on the Chinese; Barb Warrior attacks our Horse on a Mountain and dies; Arabs, English and Iroquois start Sun Tzu.

    10 BC (Turn 7):: Sword dispatches Barb Warrior by Iron colony; Moscow 14spt; Bengal is now at size 2, Hyperbad size 3.

    IBT: French, Japanese and Keltoi start Sun Tzu;

    10 AD (Turn 8): Moscow: Sword > Worker; prices for Feudalism start at 280 gold, I’ll wait; disperse SE barb camp for 25 gold.

    IBT: Zulu start Sun Tzu

    30 AD (Turn 9): Moscow: Worker > Sword (Moscow 14spt); disperse Barb Camp near Iron Colony with Elite Horse.

    IBT: India and America make Peace; disperse another Barb Camp

    50 AD (Turn 10): disperse another Barb Camp; workers roading; Barb dispersing Horses return towards Moscow.

    Treasury: 619 gold, +9 gpt, Engineering in 14 (10%)

    Post-turn: Fuedalism has been available for a couple of turns now and Engineering has just appeared on the market. I was disappointed with what I got for Monotheism, I was hoping our monopoly would last until our alliances expired, but no. We are at War with Egypt, America, France, Zulu and Iroquois. The alliances against France have 11 turns to run, the Chinese alliance against Zulu could be cancelled at any time. We have unfortunately lost a Galley to barbs, leaving us 4 Galleys and a total of:

    Warrior = 1
    Sword = 8
    Horse = 4

    Perhaps the Sword currently being built would be better changed to a Galley.

    Zwingli (up next)
    TedJackson
    tao
    Demiurge
    Furiey (just played)

    The Save
     
  9. Furiey

    Furiey No Longer Just Lurking

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    Mongol Embassy:



    I also found it difficult to remember where all the Civs were on the map, so did this to help. Cities are as at 130 BC and the lines are very approx, but it gives the general picture.

     
  10. tao

    tao Deity

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    IMHO it would have been much better to delay this and build a couple more 1 turn warriora; we had the cash to upgrade them.

    We should not hunt barbs with elite horsemen, but use the barbs to promote vet horses to elite.

    With the gotm mod, feudalism allows to upgrade swords to Frankish axemen (4/2/1) at 40 shields.
     
  11. Zwingli

    Zwingli Prince

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    50 AD (0)
    Sell Maps around for a significant sum, buy Engineering for 408g + WM from Aztecs. Sell Engineering around for Feudalism, Republic, peace with Zulu and Egypt, and some change.

    Start Moving Swordsmen to upgrade, and switch Moscow to galley. Upgrade our elite warrior to an axeman (leaders aren't too important in this game).

    70 AD (1)
    Continue upgrading

    90 AD (2)
    Buy alliances vs. the Iroquois with the Japanese and Keltoi using Engineering. The Iroquois look like a good target to weaken anyway.

    110 AD (3)
    Begin moving axemen toward the embarkment point for shipping.

    130 AD (4)
    Disperse a barb camp. Trade maps for considerable gold.

    150 AD (5)
    Disperse a barb camp. 7 axemen depart for France.

    170 AD (6)
    Up to this point, Moscow has produced 2 galleys, 1 worker, and 1 horseman. Will continue on Horsemen until Moscow can get to 20spt.

    190 AD (7)
    Sell maps for another good sum.

    IBT- Contact with Spain causes crash. Turn redone. Our horseman fend of a barb warrior.

    210 AD (8)
    Unload 7 axemen next to Tours.
    IBT- No French attacks.

    230 AD (9)
    We attack Tours, and take the city from a spear and pike at a cost of 2 axemen. There are 2 resistors and 2 slave workers in the city, and we start prebuilding in Tours for the FP.

    Tours is slightly more than 50% corrupt and can muster 3 uncorrupted shields with 3 active citizens.

    Disband a barb camp.
    IBT- No French attacks. Resistance in Tours ends causing the city to riot.

    250 AD (10)
    Chain 2 more axemen to Tours. Another galley is ready to depart from our shores once our spare horsemen get into range.

    Post-Turn
    We have 7 axemen holed up in Tours, but I don't think that is sufficient to take a size 9 pike defended capital city. Once the forest completes on the grassland next to Moscow, it can be reconfigured for 20spt after waste (assuming we don't lose 2 to waste) and can crank 1 turn catapults or 2 turn axemen. Eventually we will want a market and library in Moscow, but troops for conquest will earn better returns at the moment.
     
  12. TedJackson

    TedJackson Cunning old Celt

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    Got it


    Ted
     
  13. tao

    tao Deity

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    I probably would have attacked Paris directly. Now Tours is under great cultural pressure and we have to take Paris nonetheless. This is the next major task.

    I doubt that we should build a library. IMHO we will get most of our techs from peace deals and not from researching on our own. A market might be good to get more cash and happiness (once we have more luxuries).

    PS: Creating a scientist in Tours and setting 0% research gives +3gpt.
     
  14. tao

    tao Deity

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    Some more observations:
    1. We have very little discussion; is this because the gameplay is considered straightforward?
    2. IMHO it is wrong to forest the grasland. Better forest the river tiles in the north to make them 1/2/3 and keep the 2/1/3 tile. That would allow us to run 20 spt food deficit turns even with 2 shields lost to corruption and grow again if we build 30 shield pikes.
    3. I definitely would build at least 2 pikes to defend our axemen (switch now?).
    4. A few catapults would be nice too.
    5. And a market once we can build it in 5 turns and our immediate military needs are dealt with.
     
  15. TedJackson

    TedJackson Cunning old Celt

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    Sorry guys,

    but I need to skip this round.


    Ted
     
  16. Zwingli

    Zwingli Prince

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    Regarding the library, we are scientific so it would be a cheap source of culture reducing our long term flip odds. Units + a marketplace are certainly higher priotities, but at some point we will want the library as well.

    For Paris, I would expect a capital city with a wonder to be defended by ~5 mixed units. Probably 3 regular pikemen + 2 reg spearmen. Once we can ship the current horsemen, some pikes to defend Tours, and some reinforcements to replace any losses, A force of 7 axemen + 3 horsemen should be enough to take the city. We will probably want extra units en-route at the point of taking the city to ensure we can keep it.
     
  17. mad-bax

    mad-bax Deity GOTM Staff

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    Zwingli: I have tried to replicate your crash at the diplo screen with Spain, but can't.
    Spain is a worry to me because the flic for the leaderhead is split into several files in different directories which is not the same as the others.

    In art/Flics you should have a file called spain.flc and 7 folders called spain1.flc to spain7.flc. Could you confirm that they exist please?
     
  18. tao

    tao Deity

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    On my Macintosh I have those 8 identical files (no folders).
     
  19. tao

    tao Deity

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    Got it. (But post must be at least 10 characters long.)
     
  20. Furiey

    Furiey No Longer Just Lurking

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    1. Certainly not me! In fact the last 10 turns I played took a long time, even excluding the crash problems. Lack of comments are more an indication that I can't actually think what to comment :( my lack of experience with the GOTM mod is also showing - I completely missed the Axeman upgrade.
    2. Definitely, foresting the Tundra River tiles to 1/2/3 rather than changing a 2/1/3 tile gives us the flexibility of both options
    3. We also need to make sure we have enough to defend Moscow, particlulary with the cities being built on our island now. At what point do we start on these cities? There are now 3 Indian cities size 2+, although taking these would slow the Forbidden Palace manual build in France. India is also one of the stronger Civs at the moment and we have a war on 2 fronts.
    4. & 5. Moscow has a lot of demands on it, another city to help with production would be useful. Tours can build catapults, but does not have access to the resources to build other useful units yet, do we build Warriors/Spears and take them back to Moscow for upgrade? Or does Tours start on the Forbidden Palace - Wouldn't Paris be better for that though, if we take it soon?
     

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