SGOTM5 - Xteam

IBT 1720 Hiawatha pops up and says that he has no interest in re-upping the deal with us on the coal. If I tried to renegotiate it he wanted all of our treasury to keep it going. Seeing that we had no use for it at the time I declined. When the trade for Electronics came available I jumped on it. This in hindsight may have been a mistake.

@ leif. Do not even try to take Englidh cities unless you have pounded them for a turn or 2 with the Arti. If they have anywhere near the units that the mongols had this will be a pretty slow attack.
 
Mistfit said:
This in hindsight may have been a mistake.
I'm not so sure of this. If you see my previous post, they will need saltpeter, I hope. If not, 7 turns will, hopefully, fix the problem.
Mistfit said:
@ leif. Do not even try to take English cities unless you have pounded them for a turn or 2 with the Arti. If they have anywhere near the units that the mongols had this will be a pretty slow attack.
Thanks. Wouldn't think of going anywhere without artillery against Infantry. Hate to slow the momentum, but reality may force me into it. Between getting MT, oil and building an army of tanks, I think we have a little time. After all, 2050 is getting closer, isn't it!! :eek: :cry:
 
Not sure what the builds are but if we are close to tanks it might be worth changing all cossack build to artillery. We need a real large stack of artillery to be able to redline all infantry in a city in one turn because they will heal if it takes more than one.

But if we can't trade for any oil should we build some marines (if they are modded to 12 attack)? With the speed of artillery marines would be OK.
 
A quick update. I'm on my 8th turn. We have Motorized Transport and we have oil. We paid dearly for the oil, Ivory, Saltpeter, WM, 2307 Gold and 285 GPT. :eek:

We are at war with England, London has been obliterated (sorry Alan :p ), and we got sneak attacked by the Aztecs. They took a couple of cities, but it won't last, except way over on the extreme west where it'll take a while to get there.

We have 13 cities building tanks. The question is whether to mobilize the economy. Of the 13, all but 3 will shave at least a turn, and some of them 2, from mobilization. I'm tempted to do it but thought I should ask to see if there is a good reason not to? Especially since it is late and my eyelids are hanging! :lol: :lol: I havbe to go through the cities in the morning and make sure we're getting the most we can from each.

@Gator, I saw your post a couple of turns ago and did build some more arty. I think we have 30 some pieces now and more on the way.

The Iroquois discovered MT a turn before we did, so they can now build tanks tro fight France as well, I hope.

OK, time for some :sleep:
 
We're in yet another tight spot!! :rolleyes: I stopped because whoever is next has some interesting choices to make. France will complete the U.N. in 16 turns in Lyon. :eek: A screenie will be attached of the city view of Lyon and was taken one turn ago. England is about half finished, but the forces there should be able to complete the job. We have Tanks and the northern continent is pumping them out at one per 2 to 4 turns per city producing them, in most cases. Our economy is mobilized for war, so we are getting some extra shields for military builds.

Mistfit's plan, imho, is a good starting point for invading France and targeting Lyon to interrupt the U.N. build. We have 16 turns to implement it. I did NOT move any of the new units on the northern continent nor the transports because I wasn't sure what the team would want to do next. I would recommend we consider building an Army of Tanks and Artillery on the northern continent for shipment to the Lyon area.

Here is << THE SAVE >>

Here is the turn log:
Turn 338 – 1740 AD
Pre-flight.
1 tiles city islands
Dover (ENG)
Shimonoseki (JPN)
Izumo (JPN)
Hangchow (CHN) - their capital
Ngome (Zulu) – their capital

At war with
Zulu - 2 cities
Mongols - 4 cities

Alliances
none

Trade Deals (MapStat tracks this)
FRA - 15 turns
IRQ - 19 turns
JPN – 9 turns peace
ENG - 0
KEL - 0
ZUL - 0
AZT - 0
CHN - 0
VIK - 0
AMR – 18 turns
MON - 0
IND - 0

Unfortunately, Gnome is out of artillery range!
Set research slider to 100%, losing 31 GPT.
Press enter.

IBT
Iroquois and China have signed a Mutual Protection Pact.
The Vikings request an audience. They want to trade World Maps, see ya!
The English have a lot of Ironclads!
Moscow Cossack => Cossack.
NY Cossack => Cossack.
Elephantine Courthouse => Marketplace.
Lahore Cossack => Cossack.
Baltimore Artillery => Artillery.

Turn 339 – 1745 AD
Move a lot of workers around.
Heal Cossacks up in the south.
Move Artillery ready for assualt of England.

IBT
The Iroquois plant a city way wets, near
Dehli Cossack => Cossack.
Washington Factory => Cossack.
Bombay Cossack => Cossack.
Madras Cossack => Library.
Calcutta Cossack => Cossack.
Atlanta Cossack => Cossack.
The city of Almarikh has flipped to the Mongols.
Lots of starvation.
The Iroquopis are building Hoover Dam.

Turn 340 – 1750 AD
Change build in Darhan to Library.
Almarikh has a Reg Rifle in it, time to take it back.
Attack with a Vet Cossack and retreat, no damage.
Vet Cossack attacks and kills the rifle losing 2 HP. We install another governor and have 2 resisters. Start a Rax.
Move some Cossacks from north to south.

IBT
The English have a Galleon sailing along our northern continent coast with an Ironclad escort.
The Japanese request an audience. They want to trade territory maps, OK.
Orebro Cossack => Cossack.
New York Cossack => Cossack.
Memphis Cossack => Cossack.
Boston Factory => Cossack.
Madras Library => Cossack.
Lots of starvation.

Turn 341 – 1752 AD
Adjust research slider to 90%, still MT in 4 turns.
Move some Cossacks up to English border.

IBT
The Mongols come to visit and want peace. They don’t want to give up cities, so no deal.
The French come to visit and want to give us 16 GPT for our Ivory, I agree.
Madrid Cossack => Cossack.
Moscow Cossack => Cossack.
Bjoergvin Artillery => Artillery.
Calcutta Cossack => Cossack.
Thebes Factory => Library.
Chittagong Cosack => Cossack.
Snagarst Aqueduct => Marketplace.

Turn 342 – 1754 AD
After checking for MPP, declare war on England.
Take 2 HP from a Vet Eng Inf with arty.
Cossack redlines and another kills an Eng Inf.
Kill a Vet Rifle with 2 Cossacks, one redlines and retreats, 1 loses 1 HP.
Read post by Gator concerning quantity of artillery. We have 63 Cossacks and 23 Artillery and are 3 turns from Motorized Transportation. Change 6 Cossack builds to artillery as we’ll still need Cossacks to deal with the English.
Closed CRpMapStat by accident. Save game, reload CRpMapStat and restart game.

IBT
Lots of Ironclads bombard with some successes.
Lose 1 Cossack to counters but kill an Infantry.
Two Cossacks retreat. We drew 3 Infantry and a Militia out of London.
A Transport also left London, anything aboard?
Delhi Cossack => Artillery.
New York Cossack => Artillery.
Madras Cossack => Artillery.
Seville Airport => Marketplace.
Bangalore Artillery => Artillery.
Tabriz flips to the Mongols along with 3 Cossacks.

Turn 343 – 1756 AD
Battle of Tabriz
Artillery takes 1 HP from a Reg Rifle.
4/4 Cossack attacks and loses, redlining the Rifle, Rifle promotes.
4/4 Cossack attacks and kills the Rifle. We install a new governor.

Move artillery into position near London and Nottingham.
Transport more Cossacks and Artillery to the southern continent.

IBT
England counterattacks and gets 2 Cossacks to retreat and they have a redlined Infantry and a 2/4 Infantry about to attack Ta-Tu. They also have a 4/4 Infantry outside Karakorum.
Hiawatha wants a right of passage, I agree.
France demands our Territory Map and 100 Gold, I give in.
The Aztecs are moving as though they are going to attacks some of our cities.
Nidiros Artillery => Artillery.
Washington Cossack => Cossack.
Bombay Cossack => Cossack.
Shanghai Artillery => Artillery.
Philadelphia riots so we hire a taxman.
Calcutta Artillery => Artillery.
Atlanta Cossack => Artillery.
Alexandria Cossack => Cossack.

Turn 344 – 1758 AD
Battle for London
An extended bombardment of 22 artillery units redlines all th eunits in London and destroys a Stock Exchange anda Barracks along with several pop points. The Cossacks go in.
Kills a (1/2) Inf, redlining.
1/3 Inf kills a Cossack and promotes.
2/4 Inf kills a Cossack, no damage.
2/4 Inf kills a Cossack, promotes.
3/5 Inf retreats a Cossack, no damage.
3/5 Inf retreats a Cossack, no damage.
3/5 Inf kills a Cossack, no damage.
3/5 Inf kills a Cossack, no damage. This is brutal!!
3/5 Inf kills a Cossack, no damage.
3/5 Inf, finally, dies, redlining the Cossack.
1/3 Inf kills an Elite Cossack.
1/3 Inf dies, redlining a Cossack.
1/2 Inf dies, redlining a Cossack.
1/4 Militia dies, the Cossack in undamaged. We take London.
We install a governor and there are 14 resisters in London and it has a Marketplace, Hospital and a Harbor.
I pull everything out of London and abandon it. Misclick sends 6 redlined Cossacks 1 square away from the safe haven of a Cossack Army!
Change research slider to 60%, MT in one turn.
From CrpMapStat we learn that the Iroquois have MT.

IBT
The Aztecs declare war on us.
We lose Tabriz and 16 Gold to the Aztecs (2 Reg Knights defeated 2 Cossacks, one of which was redlined)
We lose Kalmar to the Aztecs, it was undefended.
We learn Motorized Transportation. Set research to Amphibious Warfare at 0%. Got to test the market before one researches.
Moscow Cossack => Cossack.
New York Artillery => Artillery.
Madras Artillery => Artillery.
Order restored to Phillidelphia.
Chicago Cossack => Cossack.
Seattle Harbor => Artillery.
San Fransisco Factory => Cossack.
Houston Aqueduct => Marketplace.
El-Amarna Barracks => Infantry.
New Orleans Artillery => Artillery.
Thebes Library => Cossack.

Turn 345 – 1760 AD
I visit the Iroquois and ask for Oil. They only want Ivory, Saltpeter, WM, 2307 Gold and 335 GPT! We give him everything he wants except GPT, that changes to 285 GPT, ouch. He agrees. We now have MT and Oil and are making 196 GPT. Time to change build to Tanks.
Moscow Tank in 4 turns. The question now is whether to mobilize th eeconomy to war. It will take 1 turn off of a Tank build in Moscow. Let’s see what else it will do?
Change the following to Tanks: New York (2 turns), Washington (4 turns, Mob = 3), Calcutta (2 turns), Madras (3 turns, Mob = 2), Delhi (3 turns, Mob = 2), Bombay (4 turns, Mob = 3), Atlanta (5 turns, Mob = 4), Thebs (6 turns, Mob = 5), Madrid (6 turns, Mob = 5), San Francisco (7 turns, Mob = 5), Boston (6 turns, Mob = 5), Chittagong (5 turns)
Change Alexandria to Artillery.
Change Seville to Bomber.
Decide to post and go to bed and look again tomorrow as it is getting late.
OK, Place toothpicks in eyes and try to continue.
I decide to fight the battle and return to MM when they are done.

Battle of Tabriz.
Arty fire takes a HP off a Knight, defeat 2 Knights and retake Tabriz, one Cossack no damage the other redlined. Start a Rax.

Battle of Nottingham.
Fire a 22 Gun salute to Nottingham’s defenders.
Destroy the Stock Exchange, Bank and Cathedral, reduce the pop by 5 points and redline the 3 infantry units in the city.
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/2 Inf and kills him, no damage.
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/3 Inf and dies.
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/3 Inf and kills him, 3/4.
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/3 Inf and dies.
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/3 Inf and kills him flawlessly, we take Nottingham and install a new governor. There are 6 resisters and Nottingham has a Rax and a Marketplace, so we keep it, start an Infantry.

Kill all Aztec units and 2 English redlined Infantry, float some more Artillery and a Cossack from the north to the south.
Recon Ulaanbaatar and find a Reg Infantry, wait for Arty support.

In the west, attack the English city of Danbury, 4/4 Cossack versus a 3/3 Spear. After redlining, the Cossack defats the Spear and we destroy the city and an Ironclad.

Decide to Mobilize the economy to produce Tanks faster.
MM Moscow for a Tank in 2 turns.
Assign a Scientist in Qitaimjorg, 40 turns to Amphibious Warfare.
Everything else look spretty good, so we move on.

IBT
America and Zululand have signed a Trade Embargo against us.
An English Ironclad and Transport sjow up near Dalandzadgad, SE of Moscow.
The Japanese are mad at us for having a Cossack in their territory (I am trying to move on eto attack Aztec cities in the west). I promise to leave their territory.
Oh no, France and America sign a Mutual Protection Pact.
Delhi Tank => Tank.
Calcutta Tank => Tank.
Chittagong Tank => Tank.
We are notified the French are building The United Nations and The Manhattan Project.
Marseilles has completed The SETI Project.

Turn 346 – 1762 AD
Upgrade a Galleon to a Transport for 80 gold.
Move Artillery towards the new English Capital, York. Man, is this slow!!
Move Tanks to the Southern Continent.
In destroying some malingering Aztec and English units, Leif’s Cossack produces another useless Great Leader, Stalin.
Make Stalin into an Army and load the three new Tanks into it. I did this because Tanks can blitz, more than 1 attack per turn, so the Army should be able to as well, I hope. Move the Tank Army towards York.
Move some Cossacks SE of Moscow as a Transport comes in during the interturn. Moscow will also produce its first Tank.
CrpMapStat says Nottingham has a 13.5% chance of flipping, so I move out some Cossacks. There is artiullery in there I cannot move.
Hold my Breath and press enter.

IBT
The Aztec take Jonkoping.
We lose a Cossack while the English lose an Inf during counterattacks.
The English land an Infantry SE of Moscow.
Madrid Tank => Tank.
Washington Tank => Tank.
Moscow Tank => Tank.
NY Tank => Tank.
Memphis Artillery => Artillery.
Boston Tank => Tank.
Madras Tank => Tank.
LaHore Artillery => Artillery.
CrpMapStat pops up and wanrs me that Philadelphia is about to riot. I like this!!

Turn 347 – 1764 AD
Change the Taxman into a Clown in Philadelphia.
Battle for Ulaanbaatar – check to make sure they have no 1 tile islands.
Bombard with Artillery – with 3 shots, we redline the only Infantry protecting it.
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/3 Inf and we take the city with 1 resister. Start a Harbor.

Tank from Moscow attacks English Infantry and loses, Inf now 2/4.
5/5 Cossack attacks 2/4 Inf and kills him, redlining.

Shuffle tanks and transports around.

Kill Aztec and English stragglers.

IBT
We get bombarded by English Ironclads.
An English Infantry attacks a Tank and the Tank retreats, leaving the Inf 2/4.
The Aztecs and Chinese sign a Trade Embargo against us.
Delhi Tank => Tank.
Bombay Tank => Tank, pollution in Bombay.
Calcutta Tank => Tank.
Atlanta Tank => Tank.
Toledo Artillery => Artillery.
Pollution in San Fransisco.

Turn 348 – 1766 AD
Move units for shipment south.
Bombard English Ironclads with Artillery near Ta Tu. Redline 3 Ironclads.
Move Atillery units to attack both York and Warwick.

IBT
The Vikings and Aztecs have signed a Trade Embargo against us.
Orebro Cossack => Artillery.
Moscow Tank => Tank.
NY Tank => Tank.
Madras Tank => Tank.
Nottingham has flipped taking a Tank with it.
Seville Bomber => Bomber.
Thebes Tank => Tank.
Darhan Library => Rax.

Turn 349 – 1768 AD
Rebase Bomber in Ta Tu.

Battle to re-take Nottingham.
Artillery fire at the 3/3 Infantry – takes 1 HP.
4/4 Cossack attacks 2/3 Inf and retreats redlined, no damage.
4/4 Cossack attacks 2/3 Inf. and dies, Inf 1/3.
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/3 Inf and dies, Inf promotes.
4/4 Tank attacks 2/4 Inf and we take Nottingham plus 2 Gold. Install a governor and barracks is gone but Marketplace remains, 5 resisters. Start a Rax.

Battle of York
22 Gun Artillery Salute destroys the Stock Exchange, Barrack, 3 pop points, and, of the 5 Vet Infantry Units in the city, we redlined 1, took 2 HP from a second and the other three lost 1 HP each. Wait a turn to attack as the city is on a hill.

Change Clown to Taxman in Philadelphia.

IBT
English Infantry approaches Nottingham.
Delhi Tank => Tank.
Nidaros Artillery => Artillery.
Washington Tank => Tank.
Heliopolis Cossack => Cossack.
Calcutta Tank => Tank.
San Fransisco Tank => Tank.
Chittagong Tank => Tank.
Baltimore Artillery => Artillery.
The French City of Makkah has completed Hoover’s Dam.

Turn 350 – 1770 AD
Forgot to check on France’s UN build. F7 says it is being built in Lyons. Investigate Lyon for 321 Gold. To get a screen shot I have to exit the game and start a new program. It comes back up and we take a screenie. France will have the UN completed in 17 turns!

Bomber bombs Newcastle and kills some citizens.

Mount a small attack on the Aztecs in the west, transport has 2 Cossacks but they couldn’t be unloaded this turn.

Attack is set up for Canterbury.

Battle of York, Phase 2
22 Gun barrage nets a Temple, Marketplace, Library, Bank, 3 Pop points and 3 damaged Vet Infantry units. There is an untouched conscript Infantry.
4/4 Tank attacks a 2/2 Inf and the tank dies, inflicting 1 HP.
4/4 Tank attacks 2/2 Inf and kills him, losing 1 HP.
4/4 Tank attacks 2/4 Inf and dies, Inf 1/4.
4/4 Tank attacks 2/4 Inf and kills him, redlining.
12/12 Tank Army attacks 2/4 Inf and kills him, 11/12.
4/4 Cossack attacks 2/4 Inf and dies, Inf 2/5.
4/4 Cossack attacks 2/5 Inf and kills him, 2/4.
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/2 Inf and dies, Inf 2/3.
4/4 Cossack attacks 2/3 Inf and kills him, 3/4.
5/5 Cossack attacks 1/4 Inf and kills him, taking York. We install a governor and there are 12 resisters. York has a Hospital and a Police Station and I decide to keep it for the attack on Warwick.

IBT
The Vikings and Mongols have signed a Trade Embargo against us.
Two English Infantry move in around York.
Japan and the Aztecs sign a Trade Embargo against us.
Madrid Tank => Tank.
Moscow Tank => Tank.
Bombay Tank => Tank.
New York Tank => Tank.
Memphis Artillery => Artillery.
Madras Tank => Tank.
Atlanta Tank => Tank.

Turn 351 – 1772 AD
Battle for Canterbury.
Artillery barrage of 8 units destroys a Temple, reduces the pop by 2 points, and damages 2 Infantry units.
4/4 Tank attacks 3/3 Inf and dies, Inf is 3/3.
4/4 Tank attacks 3/3 Inf and retreats, Inf is 3/3.
4/4 Tank attacks 3/3 Inf and kills him flawlessly.
4/4 tank attacks 2/3 Inf and kills him, Tank redlines.
5/5 tank attacks 1/3 Inf and kills him flawlessly, taking Canterbury. We install a new governor and there are 9 resisters, a Marketplace, Aqueduct and Stock Exchange. We keep it for now. Start a Rax.
Move redlined tanks to Kazan as it has a Rax.

Near York.
4/4 Tank attacks a 4/4 Inf and kills him, 2/4 but promotes to 3/5.
11/12 Army attacks a redlined Inf on hill above York and kills him, 9/12.

Bomber bombs New castle and kills some citizens.

Battle of Warwick.
Bombard Warwick with 21 Artillery units and destroy Barracks, Colesseum, 3 pop points and the 3 defenders are all redlined (1/3, 1/3 and a 1/2 Inf)
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/2 Inf and kills him without damage.
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/3 Inf and dies, Inf to 2/4.
More bombardment – 1 more pop point lost and 2/4 Inf to 1/4.
4/4 Cossack attacks 1/3 Inf and kills him and promotes, now 3/5.
5/5 Cossack attacks 1/4 Inf and kills him, taking Warwick. We install a governor and there are 6 resisters. Warwick has a Marketplace, Aqueduct, Bank and Police Station, we keep it for now. Start a Rax.

Time to pass it on – After Action Report.
France will complete United Nations in 16 turns. England will sue for peace but won’t give enough for it, imho. We should have enough force in England to finish them off. The units in the northern continent have not been moved, nor have the transports. I think we need to start moving resources towards the eastern end of the northern continent for an assualt on France, particularly on Lyons and the U.N. I am stopping now to allow for discussion and to give the next player time to work through that strategy and decision.

The Zulu will take peace for their remaining non-capital city plus a little gold, etc.
The Mongols will take peace for 1 of their cities.
The Aztecs refuse to talk.
The English will take peace for a city, but not the single tile island city, so no good.

Following Gator’s request:

1 tiles city islands
Dover (ENG)
Shimonoseki (JPN)
Izumo (JPN)
Hangchow (CHN) - their capital
Ngome (Zulu) – their capital

At war with
Zulu - 2 cities
Mongols - 3 cities
Aztecs –
England – 7 cities.

Alliances
none

Trade Deals (MapStat tracks this)
FRA - 12 turns
IRQ - 14 turns
JPN – 0
ENG - 0
KEL - 0
ZUL - 0
AZT - 0
CHN - 0
VIK - 0
AMR – 5 turns
MON - 0
IND - 0

Good Luck!! Tanks sure beat Cossacks against Inf.

Here is the screenie:
 
Good turns leif!

Initial thoughts:
1.) Does anyone in the world need rubber or coal? We have one source of each unconnected.
2.) Flip chances:
York 15-30%
Canterbury 10-22%
Warwick 7-16%
Nottingham 3.5-7%

3.) Can we time our war with the French with the completion of the UN. Declare on them the turn or 2 before they finish it and wait for it to be built to take it and raze the city so no vote can be held?

4.) I think we should be dastardly and pilliage every tile around Paris to ruin their rep and ability to make deals with our armies at the beginning of the war. This will also keep them from being able to make deals during the war.
 
There are a lot of Trade Embargos against us. I also didn't do many deals because I didn't want to have to break deals in order to invade them whoever. Oil is way too expensive now!! :eek:

iirc, the interturn on which the U.N. is built will have the first vote. If we wait until it is built, then we have to survive the vote. I don't think we will as nearly everyone is furious with us. Hitting it the turn before would be nice! :mischief: I also didn't plant any spies as th erisk of a premature war was not worth it. Perhaps we should give it a try a few turns before the U.N. completes.

Pillaging of the type your advocating, I think, would require ROP Rape. I'm certainly not against this, but getting an ROP may be the hardest part of the strategy. ;)

imho, we need an ROP with the Iroquois and start building forces in his little enclave near Paris and Lyon. If we can get, make that afford, an ROP with France, so much the better. Also, we have oil for 14 more turns and really need it a lot longer. :rolleyes:
 
That sounds like a low shield solution to me! :goodjob: Tackling Lyon, with 5 Mech Inf and some Arty will not be so easy. We're going to need a bunch of our Arty to "soften things up". :D

I forgot to check when Manhattan Project will be completed. It may take a little while, but nukes against us won't be pretty. :sad:
 
Good work leif :goodjob:

Mistfit On deck
DJMGator13
leif erikson] Just played
AlanH UP

Capt Buttkick Still skipping

Looks like it's me again. One way or another we have to remove the French UN option in the next 16 :eek:

I haven't looked at the save yet, but one option seems to be to attack the French and capture a source of oil from them on or before turn 14. I'll have a look around tonight and see what I can come up with.
 
Here's an idea - don't know if it will work

We can buy Radio from France for 858gold and 106gpt. Then we have to hope that we get a tech that JPN & IRQ do not have as our free tech. Then sign MPP with everyone we can except FRA and then we declare on FRA and draw everyone else in. We need a tech to offer to get the MPP, currently IRQ and JPN won't sign. We could also eliminate AMR, VIK and MON as quick as possible to get rid of 3 FRA votes, but if we can get a MPP with them and draw them in then they will abstain in a vote.

That's about the only thing I can think of other than an all out assualt on the FRA city once it builds the UN and raze it like Mistfit suggested.
 
Our freebie will be Rocketry as it's vanilla. If we can't stop the vote going to France then we have to raze Lyons before they complete the UN, as they get to hold the vote immediately.
 
Neither FRA, IRQ or JPN are scientific so there is a good chance we would be able to trade with JPN and IRQ for the MPP by giving up the tech. We would need to sign as many MPPs as possible because we have no choice but to attack FRA. If FRA does not have the tech we get then we could use it to get an ROP with FRA as well and be in a position to attack the UN build city and pillage their capital on the opening turn of the war and the IBT should bring on the dogpile when FRA attacks our pillaging units.

You might as well try to play out the 15-16 turns to the UN when you play. There's no rush if you want to wait for other comments. If we fail we'll lose the UN vote. I looked at the cities that France own and I think they have only been at war with ARB which they eliminated, except for any of the phony wars we were able to sign earlier in the game.

EDIT: Based on Mistfit's map in post 188 it looks like France has indeed only been at war with ARB - and -

Leif post#231 said:
A summary:
We are at war with America as are Spain and India.
We are at war with Egypt as is Spain, India has begged out and made peace.
We are at war with the Mongols, alone.
We are at war with France, alone.
We are at war with China as are the Zulus.
 
Gator's gambit sounds like a good bet, although it would be icing on the cake to get an ROP along with the MPP's. To get an ROP with France would be even better, if that's possible. Then Mistfit's idea of some Explorers, at 20 shields each, to tear up Paris, while sending the Tanks and Artillery for Lyons might just get us started. I'm not sure how long we'll last, but it is a lot better to go down fighting than to lose to a U.N. vote. :p

The other thought I had was that we could get France to start the war with us. Simply try to plant a spy and if we fail, Joannie Baby will declare on us. At least civs always do when I have played that far into a game. If we succeed in planting the spy, we can see what the cost would be to mess with the U.N. build. My guess, with that many shields invested, is that the cost will be astronomical!! :eek: But it s worth a try.

Alan, I agree with Gator. If you have the time and wish to do so, please play the next 16 to 20 turns. Good luck my friend. :cool: :thumbsup: :rockon:
 
OK, I've got it, and will try to play up to the UN completion tonight.

One question: We can get Radio from the Iroquois for less if we give them lux as well. As we need to do that deal soon, would it be better to do it with Iroquois than with France? It would leave us more gpt to rush things with between now and the DoW on France.
 
We have a GPT deal with France for 10 more turns. (my turn log is incorrect, I saw 12 GPT and thought it was 12 turns, oops :blush: ) I see no disadvantages to trading with the Iroquois. They need more lux and we have them. We would like to have more GPT and the trade gives us more. :D

I also see that Amphibious War is available from Iroquois and Japan. Perhaps in the MPP deal with Japan, we could pick it up? ;)
 
I looked at the gpt deal with FRA because it would end when we declared on them. If we do the deal for Radio with the IRQ we have to pay them for the full 20 turns.
 
I'll take a look at the difference between paying France for 14 turns, say, at the high rate, and paying Iroquois for 20 turns at the lower rate. Also, we probably need rush cash now more than we'll need it after we declare.
 
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