SGOTM5 - Xteam

[AlanH]

.... Continued

DoW on Keltoi.
4/4 tank kills 4/4 cav on fortified Keltoi incense colony->2/4.
Worker builds incense colony.
Elite cossack kills eurosword on fortified Keltoi horse colony->3/5.
MPP has not cut in yet. We have to attack in Keltoi territory.

@Nemausus, Pop 2 grass:
4/4 cossack kills 4/4 cav->2/4 triggers MPP. We are at war with France.
4/4 cossack kills 4/4 eurosword->2/4 takes town, 1 resister.

@Coventry, Pop 13 grass:
4/4 tank kills 3/3 infantry, no damage. Takes city. 12 English taxmen.

Aztecs: MA vs Keltoi + 8gpt for Refineing+Electricity. Aztecs declare on Keltoi. Hope they will be a softer target for Keltoi.

Near Tsetserleg: Cossack dies vs 5/5 French knight->2/5

Near Nemausus: Tank kills 4/4cav on Keltoi horse colony->1/4

Pillage rubber in France. This triggers American MPP. We are at war with America.

@Lyons, pop 25 plains:
Arty: temple,f,f,f,-1hp,f,-1hp,f,-1hp,-1hp,-2hp,f,-1hp,f,-2hp,stock exch,-1hp,f,-1hp,f,-1hp,f,market,f,-1hp,-1hp,f,pop-1,f,f,police stn,f,f,f,f,library,f. All done. We have taken 14 hp. A single 2/4 MI on top.
4/4 tank loses 1hp to arty, dies vs 2/4 MI->1/4
4/4 tank - arty misses, kills 1/4 MI, no damage.
4/4 tank loses 1hp to arty, kills 1/4 MI->1/4
4/4 tank kills 1/4 MI, promotes to 5/5
4/4 tank kills 1/4 MI, no damage.
4/4 tank kills 1/4 MI, no damage. Captures city with Sun Tzu, 23 resisters, barracks, hospital, 3 arty.

There are 2 MI and a tank outside.
Captured arty->MI -1hp,-2hp,f.
4/4 tank kills 3/4 MI, promotes 3/5
4/4 tank kills 2/4 MI->3/4
4/4 tank kills 4/4 tank->1/4

@Rheims, pop 14 plains:
Arty: f,barracks,f,pop13,police stn,-1hp,f,temple,f,f,f,f,f,f
4/4 tank dies vs 4/4 MI->3/4
4/4 tank dies vs 4/4 MI no damage
5/5 tank dies vs 4/4 MI promotes 5/5
4/4 tank dies vs 5/5 MI no damage
Fortify and stop and think!
France still has 20hp in Rhiems. If we attack we are likely to promote each one twice. That means we actually have to take 30hp. That'll need 50 tanks. We have 28. There seems little point in proceeding now. So options are:
- Move the stack - can't without losing the arty
- Leave it where it is. Best option. Hopefully it will either be seen as too strong to attack with its cossack army and infantry defenders on the mountain.
Next question is what to do with Lyons. It has a 42% flip probability, so I guess we raze it. That'll kill France's barracks hopefully. We'll have to put our tanks back in the main stack, under the tank army and infantry, and leave one tank and the 3 captured arty to be recaptured. Should have moved them before firing Abandon Lyons and 25 taxmen bite the dust.

Move ironclad between Strasbourg and Denver on our home island. Both are defended by regular rifles. If that's representative of the defence on the island then maybe we should hit Cincinnati. Let's wait for the reaction from the AI.

Nothing to sell in Lyons, so just abandon it.

Checking F1: Rush a few units. Fire some taxmen now we have incense.

Take a deep breath and hit next turn.

IBT
India moves a ship.
Keltoi cav attacks Tzintzuntzen and dies, takes 1hp.
Triggers Iroquois, Japan, Zulu, India to DW on Keltoi.
Keltoi Axemen approach. One is hit twice by ZoC from our tanks.
France DW on Japan. Not sure what caused that. My above sequence is obviously wrong.
French bombers and a ship bombard our armies. Cossack army hides behind Infantry on mountain. Don't know how many hp it's lost yet.
Destroyer sinks a transport, losing 2hp.
Iroquois, Zulu, India DW on France.
French cav attacks Infantry at Dallas and dies.
French knight attacks rifle at Kohero (Iroquois) and retreats.
Nidaros, Washington, Moscow, Bombay, Memphis, Calcutta, Thebes, Chittagong tank->tank
Nottingham worker->arty
Warwick worker->worker
Philly, Buffalo infantry->infantry
Seville bomber->bomber
Chicago, Nanking arty->arty
Calixtlahuaca worker->worker
Erdenet infantry->barracks
Malinalco worker->marine
Chittagong pollution
Zulus DW on us - MPP with America. Not sure what we did to deserve that specifically.
France starts UN somewhere else - have they cascaded another city?

Turn 374 1798 AD
Damage report:
- Our Cossack army is 10/13. No other damage near Rheims.
- Our tank army is 10/12. We lost a 3/5 tank and 3 captured arty. There's a 2/4 infantry next to our Lyons stack. Our explorers were not molested!
The French obviously took out the Japanese town around Damascus.

We are now grudgingly considered to be average vs France.
Rheims is now pop 12, so they've conscripted.

Iroquois are now polite. Would sell us computers. One more turn on oil deal, so renegotiate then.
Japan is still furious.
England is furious and would sell us an MA vs Keltoi for Radio.

Arty bombard Rheims again:
pop11,-1hp, pop 10,-1hp,pop 9,f,-1hp,f,research lab,f,f,-1hp,f,

@Cataractorum (Keltoi) tank kills reg infantry, redlined and takes city, 2 resisters.

Near Tsetserleg elite cossacks kill 2 elite French knights, 1 redlines, theother is undamaged.

@Cincinatti:
Tank takes ZoC hit from militia, kills reg rifle->2/4
Tank kills reg militia takes city. 1 resister.

@Strasbourg: 3 bombers from Moscow take out library and kill reg rifle. It's now empty!
Transport loads up warrior and cossack from Moscow and drops them outside the town to beat Iroquois ship heading that way.
Cossacks and tank approach Denver.

Clear pollution @ Chittergong

Move Lyons stack towards Paris

Kill Keltoi axemen near Coventry.
Land 15 mor tanks with infantry and an artillery near Riyadh.

IBT
Vikings & Zulus TE
Keltoi cavalry kills cossack
America DW on Japan ans Iroquois
Iroquois land a MW near Strasbourg, but we are there first.
Mongols & France MA vs Zulus. Mongols DW on Zulus
French sink 3 transports, destroy Cincinnati with tank and bomber
Delhi, New York, Madras, Snagarst tank->tank
Coventry worker->worker
Houston market->Arty

Turn 375 1800 AD
Warrior walks into Strasbourg. 5 resisters

@Denver pop 2 tundra:
tank kills reg rifle, redlined. Cossack kills reg rifle->3/4
elite Cossack kills reg militia->3/5 takes town
TEs America with Aztecs, England end and America is dead.

vet tank kills MI that destroyed Cincinnati->3/4

Renegotiate teh oil deal with Iroquois. Wants 360 gpt + aluminium, saltpeter, woll, ivory

@Curovenium (Keltoi) Cossack dies vs cavalry.

@Entremont (Keltoi) pop 12 plains:
vet tank dies redlines vet infantry then it promotes to 2/5
vet tank kills vet infantry->3/4
vet tank kills reg infantry->2/4
vet tank kills 2/5 infantry->3/4
elite cossack kills 3/4 cav->2/5
elite cossack kills 3/3 spear no damage, takes city. 11 resisters, barracks, harbour, market, bank, stock exch.

I'm going to hand off at this point.

Handover report
It's a very complicated picture and rather a mess.

Home island: We need to reinforce Moscow's garrison. Barcelona is going to be hard work, I think, but once that falls we should be able toclear the French off our island.

Choose whether you want to keep the tundra towns. The AI is very aggressive about settling as soon as a space shows up.

France: We have three stacks ready to move at your command. The northern one near Riyadh has only one artillery. I recommend getting it some artillery cover. It has two explorers who took out France's rubber. The other two have artillery. One could hit Paris this turn, or it could move towards another target. Similarly, the Rheims stack has not moved or fired yet. It was moderately successful last turn and knocked Rheims pop down. If it can reduce the MI to 2 and 3 hp then the tanks may be able to take them down. Alternatively merge the two stacks for maximum artillery effect. The armies seem to cover them OK, but the Rheims stack may be vulnerable if it comes off the mountain.

I had an announcement that the French were building the UN again, but can't see it in F7. Is this because we are at war? If so we don't know where it is. But they are now only building 3 spaceship parts, and before they were bulding 4. So they've changed from a spaceship part to UN somewhere.

We have a spy in Paris. We are still average vs France. All their strength is in 114 MI. Their tanks have been dying, and they now only have 2.

Iroqoois: We need to renegotiate the oil deal. We have lots of resources he wants, and we can get Computers as well if we give him about 300 gpt plus resources. Don't know if we need Computers, though.

America: Is gone . We came out of mobilisation in the interturn when America died. You choose if we want to remobilise. I think yes, but it's your call. You may want to review whether to start some peacetime builds before doing it.

Keltoi: I've taken Entremont this turn. It has a very high flip chance, so prolly need to abandon it. I kept it in case you want to do anything with the route it provides.

Embassy and investigation shots:

 

[leif erikson]

Very Nice Job, Alan!!!!

Sounds like the French aren't too interested in counterattacking us. The Artillery earned their pay in Lyon. That is an awful lot of MI to overcome. I'll look at the save in the morning . We need to try to find out where that UN build switched to. Taking Paris should also relieve some pressure on us.

I enjoyed you turn log. I wonder if the computer considered it ROP abuse or not??

Good luck Mistfit, there is much fighting left to do. Have fun with the MI's.

 

[AlanH]

We can still get RoP with England, not that we need it - they are a two city state in the corner of the map. But it indicates that I appear to have kept us clean.

 

[Mistfit]

Wow Those are some turns Alan! Great write up as well. I've got it but it will not get started till at least tomorrow night.

 

[mad-bax]

This thread is a great read. ...And quite a cliffhanger too.

 

[leif erikson]

We can still get RoP with England, not that we need it - they are a two city state in the corner of the map. But it indicates that I appear to have kept us clean.

This is a nice thing to learn. I have stuck it back in my GOTM brain cells for future use.

Good luck Mistfit, teach the French that culture isn't eveything!!

 

[DJMGator13]

Nicely done Alan, I'll read the details tonight. (Too much detail to read at work - thanks for the summary )

With our spy do we have enough money to investigate cities prior to attacking them, to get an idea of the number of units in defense and how many of our artillery we need to use? This could also help us find the new UN city.

Question: will a city flip the turn after capture or do we get a 1 turn grace period? I have had them flip the 2nd turn but I can't recall one flipping immediately after capture. This would allow us to hold the city and repostion troops (mainly artillery) and then abandon the city after selling off everything.

Good luck Mistfit - save some cities for me.

 

[AlanH]

We could maybe hold the city for one turn, but if I were programming Civ3 I wouldn't give any grace period. Why would you?

I've never before captured a city with a flip risk at almost 50%, and in any case I would then have had to defend it during the interturn. If it had flipped I could have lost a lot of units. The CRpMapStat reported safe garrison was 150, if I recall correctly, more than our total unit count.

I was fully expecting to be hit big-time by a major offensive. I was very surprised when Joan didn't send in 50 MI - I would have in her position. It must have been teh armies that stopped her. If I had tried to defend Lyons I would have had to split the stack, keeping a force on the artillery stack and putting some troops into the city. With only one army, part of the force would be far more vulnerable. Leaving it minimally defended would have meant it would definitely be recaptured, and that would mean we'd have to do it all over again.

It would be a high risk to take with 50% of our total army, for the sake of a possible couple of movement points.

I usually take a city rather than razing it on impact, then decide whether to keep it or sell it off and abandon it. In the case of Lyons there was nothing to sell. It had a free barracks, and a hospital and SunTzu you can't sell. The rest were either culture buildings or ones we destroyed with our arty.

 

[DJMGator13]

In the Bugs3 SG (SID level) I was able to capture and hold for a turn a size 12+ city, move my troops that turn and the next turn, and then abandon it, but I was not facing counterattacks (we had already been pounding on them for several turns). Definately not worth the risk of losing troops this early in the French campaign.

Could you tell if you were getting any help from our allies?

 

[AlanH]

Yeah! Lyons wasn't just 12+, ot was pop 23! I think flip probability relates to pop count. My guess is that people think there's a grace period simply because they don't understand probabilities. Flip probablility increases towards 100% as each turn passes. The flip probability given by CRpMapStat is just the probability that the city will flip on any one turn. Most of our vulnerable cities are well below 5%, so a first turn flip is very unlikely.

I saw some skirmishes between France and our allies, but I had concentrated our resources in the places that mattered, and so didn't have much of the map lit up during the interturns. Japan had a crack at an MI with a longbow on our home island And I saw some ships limping around with damage. Iroquois certainly had some fights, and Japan lost an isolated city in the north of France, so I think we have some useful support there.

I didn't answer your question about the spy. We can investigate individual cities without using the spy, of course, and each one costs from 150-ish to 300-ish, which will be one or two turns income after we've re-established ouur oil deal. Stealing the plans or sabotaging a city or stealing Computers would cost a four figure number, which we don't have. Doing it safely, to avoid losing our spy, would cost a high 4-figure number.

 

[Mistfit]

Here is probably a silly question about spies. Please keep in mind I don't think I have ever had use of them before.

When looking at the Military Advisor Screen when you have a spy planted is that an accurate represantaion of their military?

 

[Gyathaar]

Here is probably a silly question about spies. Please keep in mind I don't think I have ever had use of them before.

When looking at the Military Advisor Screen when you have a spy planted is that an accurate represantaion of their military?

Yes

 

[AlanH]

I've almost never used them either. I thnk this is the first one I've ever planted myself. It never occurred to me to doubt that the F3 screen was a true picture.

 

[Mistfit]

I guess I need to learn to be more trusting

 

[DJMGator13]

Based on a 3 turn round it looks like Team Moth has finished. Team Tone's graph has not made the sharp upward turn so I think they still have a long way to go for them to finish.

 

[AlanH]

Mistfit UP
DJMGator13 On deck
leif erikson
AlanH Just played

Capt Buttkick Still skipping

Have fun Mistfit. I've managed to climb down from the adrenaline high of those turns now. Hope you get as much excitement and mental exercise out of your set as I had.

 

[Mistfit]

Well it is certainly exciting I have completed 5 turn so far. I have a problem that I think need to be discussed.

All 3 of the Iroquois' sources of oil have been Bombed by the French so neither of us can build Transports or Tanks. I've lost 3 transports (2 of them empty) to Destroyers and the like.

The only thing I can think to do is to attack the Vikings. They have a source in the western chain of islands near their capitol.

I'm just worried that by attacking them we will muss up one or more of our alliances. I'll post my log and a save a bit later after I sleep.

 

[AlanH]

I'm surprised an delighted that the Vikings have oil.

Yes! Just loaded up the 1800 AD save and there it is! Darn! We could have had that easily before now.

As far as I recall the only thing we had going with the Vikings was a RoP, unless you've negotiated anything new. You can choose to exploit it to kill them, or declare from outside their territory to maintain our ability to renew our existing RoPs. I would do the latter, as we may well need to be able to rape Japan and/or Iroquois when the time comes.

But we should do almost anything to get our hands on that oil. It'll do our treasury no end of good as well not to be paying anyone for it.

 

[MOTH]

Based on a 3 turn round it looks like Team Moth has finished. Team Tone's graph has not made the sharp upward turn so I think they still have a long way to go for them to finish.

lurker's comment: Based on MOTH lurking in your team's thread I would say that Team MOTH has finished as well. Remember that the save you see listed for any team that finished is not the victory save.

Your thread is an interesting read and your game seems to go quite a bit different than ours.

 

[Mistfit]

My concern is that they have a Millitary alliance with the Iroquois against the French and the Iroquois have the MPP with us. If I declare against the Vikings won't that force the Iroquois to declare on the Vikings as well? Will they be ticked off at us at that point?

I have troops headed there now and probable safely have the city taken in 2-3 turns but it will take a border expansion and probably a harbor to get to the rest of the world.

If you are not worried about the deal I will crush the Vikings at first chance. I'm still ticked at them for taking cities from me earlier in the game.