SGOTM6 - Team RowAndLive

[MOTH]

Comments and overall situtional update (my questions are bolded)

City Names: Does anyone have any objections to shortening all of the names? Its a pain for someone as lazy as I am to keep typing all of these long names.

Happiness: We currently have 1 luxury and have some war happiness from England. Important: Don't accept peace with England unless they will give us a city or 2. We can also hook up the Dyes in the South soon. If we can get anyone else long-distance to declare on us then all the more war happiness.

War: With M-B's statement and the Mongol's lack of horses, I think that after (or even during) the war on China we need to go after Japan before they get their Knight based UU. After these 2 wars we might be able to go after France. Should we open an Embassy with France and get them to go to war with England in the meantime? The tactics for war I leave to those more skilled in early conquest.

Food: I have been MM sharing the bonus food except for Entremont's. I try to make sure that when a town is 4 food away from growth that they get a wheat so that the governor will auto-work a shield tile. This will be more complicated with the Game (irrigated in about 3) in the south as 3 cities share this bonus.

Military Units: We have 3 cities with MM that are each building 1 Vet Warrior every 3 turns. Verulamium will start building a 4th every 4 or 5 turns. I think we will have 9 or 10 more before the Iron is hooked up and we have to switch to GS. One of the 2 disconnected towns in the north will soon start building one every 5 turns. Once some irrigation gets up there they might be able to pick up the pace some. This should give us 15+ GS to start the conquest of China.

Settlers: I have been building settlers from only Entremont lately.
Workers: I built a few workers from Mohacs before I started on the Library

Harbor: 1 harbor is being built. We do not want harbors in the warrior factory cities at this point as that will ship in the Iron.
Barracks: We have 4 barracks now and will soon have 2 more.
Library: We have 1 in the works in Mohacs. We should get Libraries in our core (except Entremont) when production allows.
Temples: We have 3 in the works. We should build temples as they are cheap and will provide some happiness to combat the whipping. Once we start building corrupt ICS cities they should start immediately on a temple and should pop-rush it if they grow in ten turns.

Palace Jump: We don't want any of our existing cities to grow too large before we jump the Palace as population is a big part of the formula.

Existing Cities:
Entremont - settler pump
Rich, August, Verul, Camul - military pumps. They should breifly detour to a temple or Library once Iron is hooked up and they can't build warriors anymore.
Gergovia - Harbor, then galleys with possible pop-rush detour to temple to expand borders.
Mohacs - Library then worker then temple then worker then cathedral. We don't want to grow much though.
Lugdun - FP then worker then Library then some workers to bring size back down.
Ebor and Aged - long term warrior pumps. They get a barracks, and eventually a temple via pop-rush to expand borders.
Cataract and Burdigala - getting temples now for border expansion. Then what?

New cities: There are 3 RCP 7 sites (one next to our settler) that will have rank 1 corruption once the FP finishes. There are also 2 more RCP 7 sites near China. After this it is to start following ICS placement. Lots of the ICS sites in the south are going to be fishing villages, so maybe a harbor after the temple.

On the following map C1 through C5 are the RCP7 sites. The settler is next to C1. ICS are the ICS sites. PPS are the ICS sites that we should settle Post Palace jump.

 

[RowAndLive]

Still no sign of the barb horsemen. Perhaps they all died attacking the Chinese?

5 barb horsemen show up next to Chinese warrior
1 more horse shows up threatening a worker.
7 more barb horses show up killing the Chinese warrior. 2 more near RowAndLive.
Loads of barb horses. 3 die. One does 2 damage to R&L.
12 Barb horses can now be seen - 2 next to Verulium and 2 next to R&L.

Well, when you ask a silly question...

Nicely played out. I did miss something here, though. Palace jump? What palace jump? I'd like to see a good case before we do this, as I'm generally not a fan (although I do concede that it is likely necessary in SGoTM in order to score well, as evidenced by SGoTM5 & ROP Rape).

 

[MOTH]

Well, when you ask a silly question...

Nicely played out. I did miss something here, though. Palace jump? What palace jump? I'd like to see a good case before we do this, as I'm generally not a fan (although I do concede that it is likely necessary in SGoTM in order to score well, as evidenced by SGoTM5 & ROP Rape).

The barb horsemen had me nervous. They did major damage to our team in SGOTM5. In this game they never even attacked our cities. Mainly this was because they and the Chinese were going at it. Still, I was hoping for a few unit promotions.

You didn't miss anything. I agree that it should be fully discussed before we execute a jump. With the restrictions on leaders rushing, a Palace Jump is the only realistic way for us to get a second core running. I've never done one myself, as I always use a leader when I play in GOTM. In a 100K game, moving the palace several times is also important as you can then quickly develop each area with cultural improvements and then move to the next core.

We will soon have the FP in our existing core, so there is nothing to stop us from jumping our Palace to China's capitol once we capture it and building up that area.

 

[jb1964]

Is a palace jump permitted? I thought this was outside the rules.

I've only ever executed a jump once in a solo game and it worked like a charm. After a horrible starting location I found the territory I wanted (Rome) and hopped on over.

What are our risks with England enlisting the Chinese or Mongols at a date sooner than our choosing? When does an AI decide to initiate a dog-pile?

rrau's up next.

I'm on deck.

 

[MOTH]

Is a palace jump permitted? I thought this was outside the rules.

I've only ever executed a jump once in a solo game and it worked like a charm. After a horrible starting location I found the territory I wanted (Rome) and hopped on over.

What are our risks with England enlisting the Chinese or Mongols at a date sooner than our choosing? When does an AI decide to initiate a dog-pile?

rrau's up next.

I'm on deck.

Palace jump is definately permitted. As we are playing GOTM rules, what is not permitted is exploiting the Palace Rank bug by building/jumping the Palace far away and never building a second core arround it.

I think the risk of dogpile this early is pretty small. England doesn't have much cash to even establish embassies (no one has much except for FRance and us.) One way to try and prevent it at this stage is to keep England cash poor so they can't establish embassies in the first place. Another way is to turn it around on them first. We've got lots of cash, so we could try to bring France or America in on a MA against them.

 

[Elmarae]

Roster
Durkz
MOTH -Just played
rrau - Up
jb1964 - On deck
Elmarae
RowAndLive

I have no complaints about renaming the cities, there are a few possibilities.

We could name them according to ring, purpose. For example, Lugdunum would become (FP-0) - Mil1. That means it's 0 from the FP and is Military build #1. A city 4 squares from the FP that is earmarked to build military would be (FP-4) - Mil# In turn logs we would then only have to refer to them as Mil5 > GS > GS.

The Categories would be Mil - Military, Set - Settler Farm, Wor - Worker Farm, War - Warrior Farm

The ICS cities could be called ICS 1, ICS 2 ICS 3. This would also mean that they would sort appropriately in the F1 screen.

Though it does make the map look rather sterile with names. We could change it so that the original name is included. Like thus. (FP-0) Mil (Lugdunum) or a shortened version of the original name (FP-0) Mil (Lugd)

The only problem is when we move the palace (reasoning for this eludes me, because when we move the palace the area were the palace was would become corrupt) we would have to rename all the cities currently named (P-#) to ICS or some such. Or we could name the cities with regards of which palace jump it is. So the first palace jump the city with the palace would be (P1-0) and the cities around it would be (P1-#). Then when we jump the palace it would become (P2-0) and the surrounding cities (P2-#) With the # being the distance from the palace.

Another thing we can do with the renaming is just sorten the names to 3-4 letters. Lugdunum becomes Lugd.

 

[Durkz]

World war:

o we need to start a world war now. it will slow down tech race very much. it will also criple the ai expansion and infrastructure
o you are right we should start a war between ENG and FRA they are almost even in size and in power and they both have iron.
o we should sign aliance with india, iroquis (india has iron and iroquis have it in territory but it isnt connected) and carthage agains the japs because they look strong and if we don't do this they will get chivlary very fast and they have 2 sources of iron.
o and we should sign aliance with scandinavia and america against babs
o mongols are weak now and will be weak in the future because they have a bad start ( mostly tundra, mountains and hills)

Galic swordmen:

o we need 800 gold for 10 gs so we should upgrade only the veteran warriors. and we shuld buld some Gs in our most productive towns.
o veteran GL against Fortified sperman ,on a grassland, will win 68 % of time 16 % of fights he will lose and 16 % of time he will retreat. these are good stats. on 10 spears we will lose only 1 or 2 GS. (unles the evil RNG strikes). so on china we who probably has 20 spears we will lose 3 or 4 (maybe more if they attack us with archers) GS in attack. and many will promote to Elite.
o after china we should go for japan they will be worn out in a war against india, iroquis and chartage and their forces will be on the other end of the empire when we attack.

Note:

o If we turn 1 citizen in to scientist and set the science slider to 0% we will monoteism will be in 31 turns and we will get 33 gpt instead of 30 right now.

Palace jump:

o I dont like palace jumps but here it might be useful
o if we jump the palace we shud jump it in kyoto. that is because they have the best land of all civs (exept babs) pefect for a good core. we should do this right after we conquer them. this will give us BIG boost in production, reaserach and gold early on.

 

[RowAndLive]

Thanks for the analyses, both of you. Let's give this a little thought before jumping on it.

 

[MOTH]

@rrau,
I defer all war tactics to the other members of the team. I'm nervous enough just attacking the barbarians. It looks like during your turn set we will mainly be getting lined up for the attack on China and the actual attack will occur during jb's and Elmarae's turnsets.

I did forgot to mention our lone archer. He is working his way to the unknown tiles North of where he is now. If you want to play a little havoc, you can pillage a road in nuetral territory and place a couple of Cathage's cities in greater corruption.

 

[MOTH]

The only problem is when we move the palace (reasoning for this eludes me, because when we move the palace the area were the palace was would become corrupt)
..snip...

For naming schemes, I'm happy with just shortened names. In my own GOTMs I've started naming everything with a 3 digit number (001, 002, etc) and I keep the original names at the end for captured cities. This works great for the city list, but doesn't tell you where the city is located.

As for Palace corruption,
I assume you are talking about a 2nd, 3rd, etc jump. The first makes sense because we are leaving behind the FP, so corruption might even decrease.

For the subsequent jumps, this is primarily a benefit when doing 100K as it allows you to quickly build the culture improvements in each area. We would jump again after the new cores have built reasonable cultural improvements (Temple, Library, and Cathedral at least). Yes, we do leave behind a corrupt region, but it will be building plenty of culture.

There is the other way (the only way I've done it up to now), is to keep your 2 highly productive cores and build them up on everything to boost production. You then produce as many quick units as best match your production capacity. These units are then shipped to the borders to be disbanded for shields. Disband a 100shield unit (for 25 shields) and speand 5 turns at 1 spt and you've got a temple.

 

[MOTH]

One more thing on a second palace jump, once we've taken out our southern neighbors, it could be helpful to jumo the Palace to the north so that we can take advantage of the "gift a city - teleport to capitol" ploy to quickly move large number of units to the battlefront.

 

[Elmarae]

I think the gift a city to move troops is disallowed in SGOTM's... even so I would be wary of doing it.

 

[Durkz]

this is how we stand against other team we are competing with (ptw & vanilla)
[/URL]

 

[rrau]

ok got it, will try to get to it tonight or it might be tomorrow.

 

[rrau]

preflight (1000bc)

1000 bc stats:

12 cites
26 pop
1 slave
10 workers
1 settler
14 warriors
1 archer
2 granaries
4 rax
no culture buildings except palace

techs: researching Monotheism. Don't know either republic or monarchy (no reason to in this game)

while trying to click the E button to see if we had an embassy in France, it wasn't on center and was just off to the left and the stupid game interpreted it as a click on the round oval and moved to the next turn (I don't know why as the "E" button is nowhere near the oval, but it often happens to me)

turn 1 (975bc)

Establish embassy with France for 118g (ouch). They are 16 turns from great library and only have 2 spears in Paris.
Establish embassy with Iroquois for 43g. They are 10 turns from great library.
Establish Embassy with Carthage for 53g. They are 26 turns from great library.
Establish Embassy with India for 23g. They are 23 turns from great library.
We can only afford 1 MA. I think it's more important to slow Japan down.
DoW Japan.
MA with Carthage vs Japan for 24gpt. We have 299 in the bank for a few upgrades.
Can't afford to hire a scientist anywhere right now

ibt: Get a 2nd story for our palace

turn 2 (950bc)

settle Lapurdum => temple

ibt: India and England signed MA vs America.

turn 3 (925bc)

lux to 10%

ibt: R&L survives attack by 2 barb horses and becomes elite

turn 4 (900bc)

I messed up the Settler factory and didn't get a settler.

turn 5 (875bc)

Ratae Coritanorum founded => temple

turn 6 (850bc)

not much

ibt:

iron is hooked up
FP completes => worker
Cataractonium temple => reg galley (vetoable but I thought I'd start building them for the eventual transportation of troops to Japan

turn 7 (825bc)

not much

ibt:

Carthage and India signed MA against America.
Gerovia harbor => galley
Eboracum warrior => warrior
Japan is building SunTzu's

turn 8 (800bc)

China has Feudalism, but no Iron
upgrade 4 vet warriors to GS (all we can afford right now)
Remembered to MM the settler factory this time

ibt:

Babylon and Carthage signed MA vs America
Mohacs library => settler
Lugdunum worker => library
Agedincum rax => warrior
Vikings build Great Lighthouse

turn 9 (775bc)

Agedincum would riot, so hire scientist and decrease research for 1 turn (will starve on the ibt - can't get MP there in time as it's one of the unroaded warrior factory towns)
Aggressively settle Tolosa near Xinjian => temple

ibt:

Richborough temple => worker
Verulamium warrior => library (has a forest chop due in city radius in 5)
France, Carthage, & China are building SunTzu's
Agedincum starved

turn 10 (750bc)

Started a forest chop in Mohacs. After the settler completes, would recommend building either a temple or a market
Hired a scientist in Gergovia (building galleys) and kept science at 0%

Once Mohacs builds it's settler, I think lux should be able to go back to 0%.
Mohacs currently MM'd for no growth or it would get to size 7 before the settler is built.
I have a worker building a road toward the dye near Cataractonium. The border should expand soon to get the dyes.

Firaxis 351
Jason 119


>>>THE SAVE<<<


screenies when embassies were established:

 

[Elmarae]

If we are going to Palace jump then we should focus on setting up the core around the FP city not the current palace. Possibly even go as far as ICS around the FP and RCP 4,8 around the new palace position. That would give us a lot of small low corruption cites around the FP.

I would prefer though making 2 cores that a high production, they could then provide the workers for pop rushing the culture buildings in other cities. How much is a citizen worth for pop rushing? 20 shields?

 

[Durkz]

grat job rrau we started the initial spark and wars are opening on all fronts

 

[Durkz]

Durkz
MOTH -
rrau - just played
jb1964 - UP
Elmarae - on deck
RowAndLive

 

[jb1964]

Anyone care to post the exact dance steps needed to keep the four turn settler factory going? My first set of turns I didn't get this correct and subsequent investigation only has me sctratching my head. There's obviously a twist I'm missing on how to get the sheilds and the bread rolling at the same time.

A beer (upon proof of legal age) to the first soul that clues me in.

 

[MOTH]

The only real key to the settler factory is that you have to Micromanage for +5 food whenever the city grows (turn 1 and 3). If we had gotten lucky with a 3rd bg we would only have to MM on turn 1.

The 4 turns are as follows:
Turn 1: Size 4: Governor will default working Wheat, two mined bonus grass, and a forest. You will need to change the forest to the Mined Game. This will give you +5 food and 6 shields. It will say settler in 5 turns, but that's ok as growth will take care of this.

Turn 2: Size 4: No Micromanagement changes needed. +5 food, 6 shields and 2 sheilds on growth by working a forest for 14 sheilds total.

Turn 3: Size 5: Governor will default working Wheat, Mined Game, two mined bonus grass, and a forest. You will need to change the forest to the Mined Grassland (or irrigated plains works). This will give you +5 food and 7 shields for 21 sheilds total. It will say settler in 3 turns, but that's ok as growth will take care of this.

Turn 4: Size 5: No Micromanagement changes needed. +5 food, 7 shields and 2 sheilds on growth by working a forest for 30 sheilds total.

Thanks for the beer offer, but I must pass. Beer and wine play havoc with my allergies. I must stick to vodka, rum, and tequila.