SGOTM8 - Ivan
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I. Larkin
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Operation "Nationalism":
1) Have 2 Ind Tech (or lot of gold+ Steam)
2) Position troops to kill Greece.
3) Gift MA techs to Greeks
4) Trade Nationalism
5) Kill them at once.
Reason for war with Romans:
1) They are low culture (flip probability small) (Vikings high)
2) They are in a big continent wit Japan and Lux. (Vikings have now)
3) They are far away (Vikings close.)
4) they can pay nothing (English can)
5) they have many single tile Cities (good Choise)
The only "BUT" that they have "avarage" (strong) military...
1) Have 2 Ind Tech (or lot of gold+ Steam)
2) Position troops to kill Greece.
3) Gift MA techs to Greeks
4) Trade Nationalism
5) Kill them at once.
Reason for war with Romans:
1) They are low culture (flip probability small) (Vikings high)
2) They are in a big continent wit Japan and Lux. (Vikings have now)
3) They are far away (Vikings close.)
4) they can pay nothing (English can)
5) they have many single tile Cities (good Choise)
The only "BUT" that they have "avarage" (strong) military...
King Alexander
Universe explorer
First, it's good to have the FP built, finally!
A few things:
1) Philadelphia, Chicago and Atlanta need harbors, after the univecities. Boston needs irrigation on 2 non-BG tiles, so it grow more, and also work those mountains.
Detroit doesn't need irrigation, but mines(it hasn't mountains or many hills), so it has a chance of helping us.
2) Pharsalos it'd be best to build a library, so it's borders can expand. Split our Elite units around, and have our Veteran units, going in pairs or 3-some, to Pharsalos' N mountain, and wait there for barbs to appear: we should doElite fishing.
Note that, we don't "see" a mountain S of Philadelphia, and barb camps will appear, sooner or later, puting our colonies to danger.
3) IMHO, we should try for 1 more Wonder, Smith's: it'll help us a lot to save money and hurry units in far-away cities(that we will demand). At least, we can do some fighting without having to wait for Flight to transfer "homeland"-units by airports.
4) I don't think we're at position right now to demand anything from the Romans: we better have 2 muskets in coastal cities, build knights to upgrade to cavalries, protect better our whole land(the core is TOO weak for an attack right now) and have a better army before declare on the Romans. We will certainly do so, after around 20 turns.
5) We could trade with the Vikings, or gift them a lux, to be safe from them, and maybe, sign MA vs Rome.
6) We don't need Sanitation at all: once Industrialization comes in, build factories and we won't need anything more to have a good producation.
A few things:
1) Philadelphia, Chicago and Atlanta need harbors, after the univecities. Boston needs irrigation on 2 non-BG tiles, so it grow more, and also work those mountains.
Detroit doesn't need irrigation, but mines(it hasn't mountains or many hills), so it has a chance of helping us.
2) Pharsalos it'd be best to build a library, so it's borders can expand. Split our Elite units around, and have our Veteran units, going in pairs or 3-some, to Pharsalos' N mountain, and wait there for barbs to appear: we should doElite fishing.
Note that, we don't "see" a mountain S of Philadelphia, and barb camps will appear, sooner or later, puting our colonies to danger.
3) IMHO, we should try for 1 more Wonder, Smith's: it'll help us a lot to save money and hurry units in far-away cities(that we will demand). At least, we can do some fighting without having to wait for Flight to transfer "homeland"-units by airports.
4) I don't think we're at position right now to demand anything from the Romans: we better have 2 muskets in coastal cities, build knights to upgrade to cavalries, protect better our whole land(the core is TOO weak for an attack right now) and have a better army before declare on the Romans. We will certainly do so, after around 20 turns.
5) We could trade with the Vikings, or gift them a lux, to be safe from them, and maybe, sign MA vs Rome.
6) We don't need Sanitation at all: once Industrialization comes in, build factories and we won't need anything more to have a good producation.
conehead234
Braves on the Warpath
We don't need Sanitation. We have already built our cities in our core tightly so it wouldn't do us good. We should make our next focus on reaching the industrial ages, and railroading and if we do not have coal, acquire it. We need to improve our FP core, so we will need money to rush buildings to get it up and running. Use our workers to fix the AI improvements in the north to be more effective.
I. Larkin
Deity
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1)We don't need Sanitation. We have already built our cities in our core tightly so it wouldn't do us good.
6) We don't need Sanitation at all: once Industrialization comes in, build factories and we won't need anything more to have a good producation.
3) IMHO, we should try for 1 more Wonder, Smith's: it'll help us a lot to save money and hurry units in far-away cities(that we will demand). At least, we can do some fighting without having to wait for Flight to transfer "homeland"-units by airports.
4) I don't think we're at position right now to demand anything from the Romans: we better have 2 muskets in coastal cities, build knights to upgrade to cavalries, protect better our whole land(the core is TOO weak for an attack right now) and have a better army before declare on the Romans. We will certainly do so, after around 20 turns.
5) We could trade with the Vikings, or gift them a lux, to be safe from them, and maybe, sign MA vs Rome.
1), 6) Disagree a bit. Any gold that come to washington (after Newton) have levarage factor 6.8.
As a result growth of Washington to size 20 increases our income to approximately 100 gpt.
However, I agree that Flight is more important for us. Probably we may trade sanitation later.
3) Strongly disagree. In comparison with Hospital Smith will give only 20-30 gpt. It costs 600 Sh btw. It also needs Banking-Economics. Bachs a bit better, but not that much to get into this competition.
Better to build some military. (see next).
4) I think we will not research MT ourselvs. Currently we may upgrade spears to muscketers.
Better to declare war now in Alliance with Vikings. (We may pay Lux+Res) for that. After Magnetism English participation will be also good. I recomend pay them gpt for Alliance now and get back with Tech trade.
Not sure about Japan. Romans may kill them and become too strong.
5) MA with Vikings vs Romes will be the best protaction.
a) we have to have atleast 1 Unit in cina/Greece City to pevent flip.
b) We need to workout some plan for future
Three main eveents happends sudennly
(Copernicus, Greeks defite, FP) that I set for intermediate goals. Research Flight is to distant (100 turns approx), I think we need some milestones IBT. Also research trade and war strategy that will help to deal with AIs when we get Flight.
I think we should just keep science at max and get gold by selling techs. Rome could get to strong indeed. Probably should get an alliance and start in Rome. We must get a citie there, or the only thing to do will be waiting for flight, which is indeed a long way. I feel as soon as we can get a city we must make peace. Cash rush some culture and units and most importantly a settler as soon as possible to make sure a flip won´t push us of the island again. Could also declare on vikings but they are to close and I fear their UU, especially with our current defence.
King Alexander
Universe explorer
IMHO, apart from Flight, we'll definetly need AF for helicopters and possibly paratroopers(if tanks could be loaded into helicopters, so the better for us, but I've NEVER had much experience with helicopters: I remember that you couldn't load settlers into them, so I never bothered again to build them --- I'm very curious to see if we can load settlers).
If we feel we can start a war with Rome and demand a city after around 20 turns(even one of their cities on that little island nearby Rome), just do so: if we make an alliance with Vikings vs Rome, so the better(at least, we wouldn't have to worry about Galloglasses --- if we had infantry in our coastal cities, the Vikings' unit wouldn't bother us at all).
Start to upgrade our units to muskets, when we have the money to do so, ESPECIALLY in our Core.
In future, a war vs England also wouldn't be bad, if we could get a city there, and, why not, a war vs the Vikings(in any case, not right now, until we can defend coastal cities).
Since we won't go for another Wonder(apart Newton's), ALL the Core cities will help in building muskets(mainly) and knights, so, soon we'll be able to defend our core well, and consider declaring on Vikings or England, in the early Industrial Ages.
If we feel we can start a war with Rome and demand a city after around 20 turns(even one of their cities on that little island nearby Rome), just do so: if we make an alliance with Vikings vs Rome, so the better(at least, we wouldn't have to worry about Galloglasses --- if we had infantry in our coastal cities, the Vikings' unit wouldn't bother us at all).
Start to upgrade our units to muskets, when we have the money to do so, ESPECIALLY in our Core.
In future, a war vs England also wouldn't be bad, if we could get a city there, and, why not, a war vs the Vikings(in any case, not right now, until we can defend coastal cities).
Since we won't go for another Wonder(apart Newton's), ALL the Core cities will help in building muskets(mainly) and knights, so, soon we'll be able to defend our core well, and consider declaring on Vikings or England, in the early Industrial Ages.
I. Larkin
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Please, discuss long term plans:
Note, that withou overseas City flight itself is useless. But with flight we can transfer troops to overseas City via Airport. Advanced Flight (AF) will take lot more Techs as it needs Mot Transp.
BTW, may be better go to S. Method and via ToE get 2 techs faster? Note, English our main Sci competitor. they had not have GA yet, but will have soon. Drug them to war vs romans will help us.
Note, that withou overseas City flight itself is useless. But with flight we can transfer troops to overseas City via Airport. Advanced Flight (AF) will take lot more Techs as it needs Mot Transp.
BTW, may be better go to S. Method and via ToE get 2 techs faster? Note, English our main Sci competitor. they had not have GA yet, but will have soon. Drug them to war vs romans will help us.
King Alexander
Universe explorer
If we can arrange an MA with Vikings + English vs Rome, it'd be better for us, as the other civs will decrease their science rate, and the Romans won't focus only to us to attack.
It may worth researching and build ToE: we could always trade it and get other techs + money, and we'll get to learn 2 techs for free.
It may worth researching and build ToE: we could always trade it and get other techs + money, and we'll get to learn 2 techs for free.
Game mods acording to reference thread:
- Settlers, workers, scouts, explorers, leaders, cruise missiles and tactical nukes can be loaded into helicopters.
- A side effect is AIs can load tactical nukes into any boat with transport capacity ... so beware
For ToE we need to learn 3 techs which are not on direct route to flight, and will only give 2 back, but these will be more expensive. Letting it to the AI will give them a change to catch up. So I think we should go for it. We should calculate current prebuilds to see if we need to adjust them.
Overal start should be stay in tech lead as just mentioned and getting a city. Can't afford to leave the opportunity again. Looks like rome does not have a lot of culture to their cities will be cheap and have a low probability of flipping. So allie against them, preferably with the vikings as I don't want to face them now. After railing it's no problem anymore.
- Settlers, workers, scouts, explorers, leaders, cruise missiles and tactical nukes can be loaded into helicopters.
- A side effect is AIs can load tactical nukes into any boat with transport capacity ... so beware
For ToE we need to learn 3 techs which are not on direct route to flight, and will only give 2 back, but these will be more expensive. Letting it to the AI will give them a change to catch up. So I think we should go for it. We should calculate current prebuilds to see if we need to adjust them.
Overal start should be stay in tech lead as just mentioned and getting a city. Can't afford to leave the opportunity again. Looks like rome does not have a lot of culture to their cities will be cheap and have a low probability of flipping. So allie against them, preferably with the vikings as I don't want to face them now. After railing it's no problem anymore.
I. Larkin
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OK, Europe vote for war vs Romans in Alliance with English and Vikings.
I think in this case we will trough away MA reputation if ronans will give us continental City. May be we also drug Japan to war as well?
Overall, I think better to have total Scientific domination and get Flight and ToE next, but we will see.
I think in this case we will trough away MA reputation if ronans will give us continental City. May be we also drug Japan to war as well?
Overall, I think better to have total Scientific domination and get Flight and ToE next, but we will see.
I. Larkin
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I think we can do following: Research main line to Flight and trade Medecine-Electrisity.
After that research SM and prebuild ToE. Dilema is: get Flight ASAP or most expensive ATheory+Electronics? Will see... Actually, if they will research Nationalism, Communism we may have time for all...
After that research SM and prebuild ToE. Dilema is: get Flight ASAP or most expensive ATheory+Electronics? Will see... Actually, if they will research Nationalism, Communism we may have time for all...
King Alexander
Universe explorer
The problem in your plan is Greece: it'll certainly settle on some small island, soon, and we won't be able to exterminate them at once. So, maybe, the other civs won't have to research Nationalism at all, and maybe, Greece will trade/gift it to them for an alliance vs us.I. Larkin said:
On the other hand, we need Greece to trade Nationalism. If we plan to exterminate them at once, we should build enough knights to strike their 3 cities at once, and without any delays.
In reality, I was hoping that we'd continue our war with Greece for some time, to get more Leaders and rush Wonders, not actually attacking them, but just wait for their units to come to us and finish them off with Elites.
We can think about another war with Greece, just to get them busy for some more time, but that won't guarantee us that they won't settle in some island.
P.S.: Sparta still has 2 Greek citizens, and we should starve it, just in case.
OK I played 10 turns.
660AD - decreased scienceto 60% - ToG still in 2
establish embassy with japan, 19 turns to Sun tsu's,3pikes, 1sam,30%sci
trade wms
no one will sign an alliance against Rome
670AD - england knows banking
trade physics for banking 40G,6GPT
sell banking to Japan for 35G,19GPT
680AD - switch washington to newtons (due in 9)
690AD - rush granary in Thermopolae to maximize growth
700AD - England and China sign peace
710AD - Greece declares war on Rome
720AD - trade WMs
730AD - England completes Sistine
740AD - our GA ends and some cities riot due not enough entertainment
750AD - England has Economics, boost lux slider
China might settle anothe city. If they do demand it in the peace negotiations. Greece has taken a city from Rome. We could demand it as well.
660AD - decreased scienceto 60% - ToG still in 2
establish embassy with japan, 19 turns to Sun tsu's,3pikes, 1sam,30%sci
trade wms
no one will sign an alliance against Rome
670AD - england knows banking
trade physics for banking 40G,6GPT
sell banking to Japan for 35G,19GPT
680AD - switch washington to newtons (due in 9)
690AD - rush granary in Thermopolae to maximize growth
700AD - England and China sign peace
710AD - Greece declares war on Rome
720AD - trade WMs
730AD - England completes Sistine
740AD - our GA ends and some cities riot due not enough entertainment
750AD - England has Economics, boost lux slider
China might settle anothe city. If they do demand it in the peace negotiations. Greece has taken a city from Rome. We could demand it as well.
I. Larkin
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"no one will sign an alliance against Rome"
Even K-A knows this things: you should declare first and then bring them to alliance!
I got file, micromange a bit to reduce lux back 20%
Questions:
1) NY build Bachs??? I think Bank will be better (29 Sch will lost)
2) Declare Rome now?
3) What we can do with Greeks?
Even K-A knows this things: you should declare first and then bring them to alliance!
I got file, micromange a bit to reduce lux back 20%
Questions:
1) NY build Bachs??? I think Bank will be better (29 Sch will lost)
2) Declare Rome now?
3) What we can do with Greeks?
King Alexander
Universe explorer
If you can bring England and Vikings into the alliance, yes.I. Larkin said:
If Rome won't destroy their island city after a while, we won't be able to make the "Nationalism" plan. We can only hope.I. Larkin said:
Anyway, if things go as we wish, and Greece hasn't another far away city, we need troops to be ready and in their positions to strike Greece(we have a bit time for that: just make sure we have 3 different SoD's to strike Greece simultaneously).
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