SGOTM8 - Ivan

[I. Larkin]

I think Wasshington have to swich to Lib now. we do not need settlers currently.
40% lax is a lot, I think NY may stay with Clown/Tax collector at 30%. It also needs archer now.
Spear and Archer may go north to take b/camp. If things will continue good we may take 1-2 China City.
When I did embassy Greeks had 100% sci. They obviosly have no improvements and stay in this mode. it looks thet China manage to defend. If we stay at alliance 10 turns more we may try to demand some City after that.
It is too late to start Pyramids now. At emperor Pyramids may come 1300-1200 BC. Construction come in about 60 turns, it is too early to start prebuild of GW. meanwhile we may build granary at boston (after lib) or few reg spears.
Conehead up. please let us know about your computer problems. regards, Ivan

 

[King Alexander]

Ivan, are we going straight to research Republic or not? If so, Construction(Gret Wall) may delay further.

It's a good idea if we could demand a city from China, but our military might(if we had) would play some role on it, right? Anyway, if Greece makes peace sooner than 10 turns(be careful to check when the deal expires), we can just see what China offers for peace(city, tech, gold).

Washington should work the forests, if we're going for a library: we can't keep it happy further from size 6 --- we need another MP. We badly need to connect a luxury or two.

We should try to send a spear to the S mountains(gems), and see if we can settle somewhere(although, FIRST, we should go for the dyes, as they're closer to Greece and China).

Please, check all cities to see if I forgot to micromanage correct in my last turn(I always check myself, but I'm not sure about my last turn).

 

[I. Larkin]

We may send mp from Boston to Wash and reduce lux to 30%. Check NY than.
check where forest cut will go. Use expensive unit for that.
unfortunately Dyce far away.
We go to republic first. It will take 40 turns approx. Then (with libs) construction more 17-20 turns. We must start prebuild when swich to republic.

 

[King Alexander]

The forest cut is due in 5, where the warrior finishes in 4, so, the shields could go to either city without a problem.

 

[I. Larkin]

With 30% lux Wash can stay at size 8. NY can't 6. I think we may build archer/ settler in NY and settle near dyes. Overall better to have clowns than lux 40%. Wash may build Lib, barracks, units.
Atlanta also may build barracks. Do not cut forest that much. Be sure, that it will go to Philadephia. (Palase in Seatle virtually).
I think we can't actively fight with China now.
After CoL Mathematics. It is few turns only, Rep after Libs will be better.
Or we want 40 turn gambit for Republic?
Let discuss all this topics, we are at first turning point now.
How things, conehead?

 

[conehead234]

I will give it a go today to see how long my computer will last.

 

[King Alexander]

@Ivan: maybe it'd be good to make a second dot map, and also let 1 last settler/spear out of Washington(then it can build library and units)? It'll help greatly to begin our second core.

No need to worry about China AT ALL: the war will be over soon(10 more turns), and China can't send units in so little time, since it's at war with Greece(and even if it wasn't, it has to pass jungles and mountains to get to us). In turn 9, when I disbanded the scout, there were ZERO Chinese units coming after us.

I agree that NY should build settler/spear and settle the rest of the land(near dyes) and ALSO to settle towards the S mountains(where gems are): the luxuries will help us to let our cities grow more(more gold, science, etc...). I agree that 40% lux it too much.

Maybe, we should go for Republic first, begin our Palace pre-build for the GW in Boston, and then we can learn CoL(or trade for it?).

 

[AdrianE]

Note that in order to demand a city from China we need to be strong versus them. That means building archers as the AI values attack strength more. Plus we could use a few more to clean out barbs!

 

[nerovats]

Finally had time to get a look at the save. So here's my 2 cents.

Get one more settler to claim dyes.
Sent warrior into mountains in south, might reveal some good terain and we must connect gems. I hope to find iron there too.
I'd use NY for workers to join in other cities, and we need some more workers.
It'll take a lot of workers too to get trough that jungle.
Science: strait for republic
We should build some baracks too, to get a decent army.

So let Washington build 1 more settler or swich NY to it (Libs are not very usefull when we don't have roads). Then use Washington and the new cities to build an army.

 

[King Alexander]

Note that in order to demand a city from China we need to be strong versus them. That means building archers as the AI values attack strength more. Plus we could use a few more to clean out barbs!

You have a point there, but what can we do in 10 more turns(assuming Greece doesn't sign peace sooner)? China already has some archers fighting Greece(I saw them), and I don't believe we can be more powerful than them in just 10 turns, right?
We must build a few spears/archers anyway, for barb hunting and to not actually have China to want to demand a city of ours for peace (although, they're willing to accept peace as things currently are)

 

[conehead234]

Why do we want a corrupt Chinese city?

 

[King Alexander]

Get one more settler to claim dyes.
Sent warrior into mountains in south, might reveal some good terain and we must connect gems. I hope to find iron there too.
I'd use NY for workers to join in other cities, and we need some more workers.
It'll take a lot of workers too to get trough that jungle.
Science: strait for republic
We should build some baracks too, to get a decent army.

So let Washington build 1 more settler or swich NY to it (Libs are not very usefull when we don't have roads). Then use Washington and the new cities to build an army.

I agree with that.
For NY: I don't know if we need another granary in Washington to pump workers.

 

[I. Larkin]

Basically we may have 2 strategy:
1) Reseach CoL as soon as possible and go 40 turn republic gambit. In this case we do not need Libs but may pump settlers and military. In this case, however, I'd like to build barracs at washingtonn and setler in NY. Granary in Boston now(??)
2) Focus on research. in this case better to get mathematics first and start research Republic at full speed after. If Greeks discover Costruction or Currency we may trade it .
Libruary in Washington now.

 

[I. Larkin]

"Why do we want a corrupt Chinese city?"
We don't. But we need horses and dyes. Also better kill China to trade with Greeks.
"So let Washington build 1 more settler or swich NY to it (Libs are not very usefull when we don't have roads). Then use Washington and the new cities to build an army."
I agree. but CoL, Math, Rep. Barracks in Atlanta and Wash and Army.

 

[I. Larkin]

You have a point there, but what can we do in 10 more turns(assuming Greece doesn't sign peace sooner)? China already has some archers fighting Greece(I saw them), and I don't believe we can be more powerful than them in just 10 turns, right?
We must build a few spears/archers anyway, for barb hunting and to not actually have China to want to demand a city of ours for peace (although, they're willing to accept peace as things currently are)

We may continue war longer, but I do not think that it will give any effect. Anyhow better to send Elite Warrior to Jungle. May be it will fish something. I think one more City must be at hills near dyce. I belive we will have more later. (may be at nex war.)
Atlanta must have barracks. NY - instead of lib archer->worker. My filing is that better to go 40 turns Rep. Gambit. but in any case Mathematics first.

 

[King Alexander]

Basically we may have 2 strategy:
1) Reseach CoL as soon as possible and go 40 turn republic gambit. In this case we do not need Libs but may pump settlers and military. In this case, however, I'd like to build barracs at washingtonn and setler in NY.

The problem with this scenario is that we'd need to build something better than just archers: swords would be good, and if we had horse, we could also build them to upgrade to knights.
We DO NOT know IF we have Iron somewhere after the S mountains: I think, we should explore there(and to also know our land better!).

Another scenario would be to prepare ourselves for a REAL war with China(maybe, again with an MA with Greece), attacking before we learn Republic(Despotism allows more units?), by building archers: I JUST don't want us to stay without resources at all, because things will get difficult for us, later on(especially if Greece attacks us in the future: they have both Iron and Horses).
If things go well, we should make sure we trade with Greece all the time to avoid any conflicts between us.

2) Focus on research. in this case better to get mathematics first and start research Republic at full speed after. If Greeks discover Costruction or Currency we may trade it .

I'd like us to do that, but, if I had to choose between resources and science, I'd go with the first(we can always point-stick to get free techs, or at a reduced cost).

Edit: So, we both agree to follow the first scenario, 40 turn gambit at Republic, researching Mathematics(?) first at full speed. During this time, we could also prepare for a war with China.

 

[conehead234]

Math or CoL? I am going to attempt to play now

 

[King Alexander]

Math or CoL? I am going to attempt to play now

Ivan says (2 posts back) first CoL then 40 turn Republic, but in his latest post says Math first and then 40 turn Republic.

I'm not sure if got confused or not(wanted to say CoL but typed "Mathematics"): do you want to wait to be sure? It's up to you now.

 

[AdrianE]

I don't think we can afford 40 turn gambits. Remember there are other civs out there who are probably researching like mad and may be trading techs to each other.

We want a Chinese city to get a toe hold in the north. It will save us money in support leaving more for research. It is a small step forward in the goal of conquest. Any of these is a good enough reason. Access to resources is the biggest reason though.

I'll bet there is no iron on this island within easy reach. I don't think Gyaanthar wanted to make the early game easy! Giving humans iron makes the early game too easy. Putting horses on the other side of the straight was just mean though.

 

[King Alexander]

Adrian, nice suggestions and concerns there. Yes, we have to research fast(let's not forget that the war between Greece and China has slowed both of them in science).

The problem is, if we DO NOT have Iron on the South, we may have to take on China (AND Greece later) with archers, and we'll need a lot of them: if this is the case, we HAVE to attack Greece/China BEFORE they reach Chivalry(if they learn Gunpowder, we can forget about a fast conquest at all: we'd have to depend on trade).

Anyway, even if THERE IS NOT land to settle on the South, we better send 2 spears amd workers to make that Gem colony, as we need it badly. We have to settle near the dyes, also: I'd say, let Washington to finish one more last settler, escort it with a spear and target the dyes(I'd prefer us to also settle before the dyes on the hill next to the coast so we have better distanced cities, but we can simply settle ON the dyes or just after them, if there's no enemy settler nearby).

NY could also build a settler/spear, and then build only workers for some time: the rest of the land can be settled by Greece or China, while we prepare ourselves to make a strong attack. Both of our "firends' will also try to settle the small islands nearby, so they'll waste time, effort and.. population(that's good for us ).