SGOTM8 - Ivan

[I. Larkin]

bad move. If City have barracks it should build Military, not wonder. FP that close to capital is nonsense switch to granary then archers. We must declare china and substitute there Cities with settlers. I recomend to attack horse City (canton )first.
it is to artificial plan to go to Iron.

 

[nerovats]

@K-A thank you.
This is the reason I´ll have to catch up tonight, and see what progress we made before commenting.

I agree with Ivan about the FP, since this is vanila we sould place our FP some distance from the palace to gain maximum beneift.

 

[King Alexander]

@Ivan: the problem is the barracks Boston has? We sell them right away.
The thing is that we aimed to build GW in Boston, and I am just not sure how we can make it with the corruption and poor shields the city has. Boston has just 6 shields per turn(will have a bit more once we're a Republic), and we want to hope that we'll build both GW and Copernicus? What about the rest of our core? It'd be nice to have less corruption in our core, as I don't think we'll build courthouses soon, right?
We'll have the FP really soon, in less than 20 turns(after the city grows and if we micro-manage as I've described in my previous post).

The thinking behind also building the FP now, is to make a Palace jump to have our core in a FAR better land, where Greece and China are: our current core would have the FP, and it'd also be productive, later on. I think, at the long run, we'd be much better having the Palace there and not the FP.

If you look at Greece or China, their capitals have very good land and can work all full 12 tiles(and good ones). If they'll go for a Wonder, they'll probably have it without difficulty.

------------
Ok, if we want to change our plans and go after China in a while, just say so, but we might lose GW, and besides, we need a bit time for a war with China, as we haven't a force to attack and better to be sure that we'll take a city of theirs with the first try. We also need to have settlers ready and waiting, if we want to replace Chinese cities, as both Greece or China may resettle.

Anyway, as always, I'll go with what the Team's more experienced players will decide!

 

[I. Larkin]

If barracks in Boston exist let them be. I thought that granary might be better. I also recomend build it now and start GWall prebuild. Copernicus well be at our capital to maximize research.
About war: Canton is our goal and first target. Send some archres there. Greeks also may destroy it. We may have settler ready to claim horses.
Washington may work on the lake with 30% lux and 60% Sci.
Accordin to rules we may not make palace jump in undeveloped core.

 

[nerovats]

Checked the roster, everyone has played now.
Roster was: Nerovats, Adrian, Ivan, King-Alexander, Ivan, Conehead.
So I´m up again.
It think we need some settlers to claim the jungles, and might send one towards iron. When our continent is settled maybe greece and china will go and find some contacts for us. So we probably should wait a bit before going to war. Need to build some more units first anyway.
Will first focus on the libs, then get a couple of settlers and military. Will play tonight. Do we keep playing 20 turns or are we down to 10 now.

 

[King Alexander]

Maybe it's better to set Boston to palace prebuild now?

I believe, 10 turns from now on.

 

[I. Larkin]

Checked the roster, everyone has played now.
Roster was: Nerovats, Adrian, Ivan, King-Alexander, Ivan, Conehead.
So I´m up again.
It think we need some settlers to claim the jungles, and might send one towards iron. When our continent is settled maybe greece and china will go and find some contacts for us. So we probably should wait a bit before going to war. Need to build some more units first anyway.
Will first focus on the libs, then get a couple of settlers and military. Will play tonight. Do we keep playing 20 turns or are we down to 10 now.

Sure, you are up.
You are right about settlers but I recomend send this one to near canton. If greeks destroy canton we must substitute it without delay.
Also push some military there. Certanly we must wait 10 turns with China before our peace treaty expires. You may play untill contacts I think. I am not sure, that we "must" trade it before get a Republic. If nobody knows it contacts will slow down our research.
I think it is resonable to play 20 turns and make a breake after 10 turns for discussion. also it is resonable to breake if something happend. My recomendateion if somedody come with demand do not cave. in this case we'll get war happines.
Ivan

 

[AdrianE]

I think its worth it to try to grab the iron. We need some more settler pairs and then veteran archers to deal with China. The only reason to build a FP near our starting core is if we plan to jump our palace somewhere else later.

I say play 10 turns.

 

[nerovats]

pre-turn
MM philidelphia
change tax men intoscientists, take 1 turn of republic
730BC
moving
710BC
gems get connected
washington spear, can get everybody to work, now at 10spt, growth in 7 so first 2 more spear then settler
change other scientist to work too.
send workers to goats
IT horse attacks SanFran spear promotes, there's another horse
690BC
split up workers, much more efficient especially when industrious.
670BC
washington spear settler (growth in 3 now)
chicago worker->rax
MM atlanta to get free shield
can buy Horseriding for WM and 75 gold but expect to get be able to trade for it later on or demand it. Won't be able to build horses anyway.
650BC
Seatle lib->rax
change San Fran to lib, could change it to temple to get earlier expansion.
swap tile between Seatle and chigago
630BC
give Seatle tile back (less corruption)
610BC
washington settler->settler
590BC
moving
570BC
philidelphia lib->rax
get horseback form oversea's GH (so should have bought it from the AI, to get better tech).
550BC
NY lib->settler
moving a lot
Meet a greek hoplite/settler pair, next to Tsingtoa, we should hurry settling.

Stop here to discus. Maybe ply mor tomorrow or Adrian takes it.
Couls sacrifice a worker to build colony on dyes (lib from San Fran will take a long time) could also strategically settle a couple of cities.
Will need to dcide now where to settle and be fast with it or greece will take all teh juice bits.
Could settle nortern pair 1E of where they are , put culutral pressure on Canton right away, buy lib after getting republic and keep fingers crossed.
Settle pair just north of San Fran 1 more north, on the end of the river (is not on bank). Could send another settler south on Xinjian. Greece will probably settle 1S,1SW of where they are. Which wil fill up the area. Send up some more spears as the ai usually turn out to be bullies when there's no more space.
Alternative: sent all current settler a bit further nort. Settle 1 above and 1 below canton, rush libs in both of them, send 3rd settler 3 N of Sn Fran and ther 4th (from NY) to south of Xinjian probably have time for this, since Greece will go for mentioned spot (or maybe tere's a furture resource somewhere.
The iron/wine is stil 11 turns away, I don't believe we can make that before cultural growth by greece. Greece is still in war though, and adire our culture even before I finished a single lib, so they have nothing yet. But I prefer to go for horse.

 

[King Alexander]

I don't know what our long-term strategy is, so, I can't tell much. When I say "long-term strategy", I don't mean the next techs/war, but of how we imagine the game in the Middle Ages, and so on.

The Military advisor says we're weak vs Greece and strong vs China: China is been able to stand Greece's attack for so much time, defending with (probably Elite)spears against Greek archers. Now, just imagine how many archers we'd need to take on cheap pikemen(that hoplites are).

Sure, horses are very good to have, and we could go for them, after some time.

How do we plan to prevail in our island? Import Iron from somewhere else?

These are things that require "long-term" strategy, and I haven't read anything about it yet.

Canton may fell to Greece, while we prepare for a war with China(and we'd need some time to have a SoD of archers, so we take it for sure). On the other hand, Greece is only building military, and not cultural improvements, so we could take the Iron, but both options have a RISK. The question is what we want more, and how much are we willing to risk about it?

As for the dyes, maybe we should make a colony, and have a 1-2 spears to guard it, if we can't wait to build the library OR we just want to reduce the luxury slider and to keep happy cities that're about to grow and have 1 MP.

So, we're going to build the FP, after all? I thought, you were against it. We still can change to palace prebuild, but we'd need to hurry things in science to learn Construction sooner(we can always wake the lake, or a coast tiles, if it's going to finish sooner).
On the other hand, we could make a palace jump, once we improve the Greek-Chinese land: that's not against the rules, right? It's not that FAR away, like we'll going to have it on another island. Why don't we ask AlanH about it? I had read a misinterpration for the palace jump, and it was against moving it too far from your core, but I don't think it's the case here.

P.S.: so, we got HBR from that GH next to Seattle. You could have bought HBR, but you could also get gold instead of a tech, and besides, you had to take a decision, since nobody had suggested such a thing.
btw: we'll build the FP, after all?

 

[conehead234]

Sorry for my MIA, cross country training camp just made me want to sleep.

Long term plans, hmmm, archers won't do much against Hopites, but longbows would, I forget, was the game modded for longbows? We could wait for invention and then upgrade a stack of archers. But I don't know if this game was modded for us to have longbows.

I still believe that we need to grab that iron, it is the only thing that will allow us to take down the hopites, unless we want to sacrifice many archers. Sometimes we have to take risks to win.

We can get the horses also, just get more settlers up there, we may be able to culture push the chinese and greeks out. Speaking of culture, we may be able to flip cities that are settled on those islands near our core.

 

[I. Larkin]

First: we must build colony on dyce. Yes, we will loose worker but it let us 20% lux and we may get Republic in 6 turns.
Second: we must trade WM to know things. It is expensive now, but will be more expensive next turns.
Third:We are not at turning point: they still do not have contacts. We must stop and discuss things then.
Tackics: we should build archers as future LB. And try to grab horses. We must settle at dot 1(or 1tile south) and wait at point 2 and settle on horses when greeks kill canton. We mast prevent Greeks settler to settle near dyce colony. We also may trade Allianse vs China for something (not now, of course).
Not sure that we need settler in Washington, but team decide.
I belive FP is GW prebuild.

 

[King Alexander]

We can always settle between SF and Xinjang, so we don't need to make a dyes colony.
I'm not sure if Greece won't settle where we're aiming to settle, in Ivan's map. In that case, we should bring the settle 1 back on the hill, and also settle between SF to secure the dyes without a colony.

I'd also make an attempt for the Iron, if not now, with the next settler: I'd give it a try, even if we need to sign MA with Greece vs China(including a RoP, so they won't brake it). I prefer fast units all the way, against slow-moving units.

 

[AdrianE]

I played a recent GOTM where I had to take down Greece with Babylonian bowmen and catapults. It can be done. It requires about 10 to 15 catapults, 10 to 15 bowmen/archers with 2 new ones every turn. We'll also need 3 or 4 spears for defense.

It would be easier with horsemen as some will survive and retreat. Horsemen are more expensive though.

It is easier for us to claim our continent now than later. We have a chance now. We might not later.

Build the colony on dyes. Workers are cheap for us now.

Send a settler to try to grab the iron. It is a gambit that is worth it!

Long term planning is somewhat fuzzy at this stage. We know we must get to flight ASAP so we can get off the island. We need to know the world map before we can get to detailed planning.

I don't think we should wait for Greece to raze Canton. We should take it ourselves.

 

[nerovats]

Ok most favour, heading for the iron. Benefit will be huge ofcourse. Move noth pair to iron, 2nd pair near Canton (I´m not that sure greece will take it shortly). Get 2 more settlers to settle noth and north-east from SF.
Might flip the southern chinese cities, having second thought about Canton, it´s rather close to the chinese capitol...

 

[I. Larkin]

Yes, we could make iron City, but it may flip to greeks soon. Also it will be very difficult to defend it at war. However, even temorary benefits (+ vine) may work. Anyhow, to get RoP with greeks (for free) better to make MA vs China (for their cash).
Greeks have horses and strong army. Canton for them is most natural tagert. However it may grow and greeks will take it. If we manage to bring archers we will take it ourselves.
I think nerovats may play few more turns until AI (they) will get contacts or we discover Republic or whatever unforseeing.
If Adrean plays now I recomend to stop at this point anyway.
Trade WM!

 

[conehead234]

Yea, trade WM, like buy Greece's WM then sell it to china, then take china's and sell it back to greece. Do that every turn.

 

[nerovats]

Let Adrian play, the wether is good here and I really need to do some work in the garden, before the neigbours start to complain

 

[AdrianE]

I should be able to play this evening

Adrian

 

[AdrianE]

Well I played 2 turns and China found someone else on the last IBT.

Things have changed!

File is on the server

preturn - buy and sell WM net cost is 17G

530BC - reassign some workers who were mining. We need irrigation so we can work the mountains. Republic is very soon.
Found dyes colony.
trade WM

510BC - found Miami 1S of Ivan's spot. I'm afraid Greece is going for the same spot.

China and Greece made contacts last turn. China was behind literature but now they are up 3 techs.

Stopping for comments:

Adrian