SGOTM8 - Ivan

We can CERTAINLY be quicker settling than Greece: I'd say to settle 1S from the dyes in Xinjiang.
We should wake the spear and the 2 workers in Miami and block the Greek settler combo, while our settler goes for the dyes, and when he gets to our dyes colony, also wake the spear to escort our settler.

We can always build another spear to protect our workers in Miami if needed.

The archer from Washington should clear the barb camp, and stay near Washington and our new city, IF we're going to declare on China to get free RoP with Greece(maybe, we'll need to have some archers nearby).

NY's settler should go and wait near Miami, so we're close in Canton(I'd not stop building settlers from NY). The archers should take Canton and replace it 1SW(we'd need border expansion to get the horses, but we'll secure them).

If we also could take and replace Xinjang and Tsingtao, we'd control the S part of our island. All the cities should build archers, and Washington should build a spear when each settler out of NY is ready, so we escort him(while waiting for the settler, archers also out of Washington).

I don't know if it's better to sign the RoP with Greece now, before next turn: Greece will EVEN pay us it's 16g for a MA vs China.

Here're some deals we can make with Greece now:
1) MA + 16g(they pay us) + MA vs China.
2) MA + 8g(we pay them) + MA vs China + Contact with Japan(good deal).
3) MA + 30g(we pay them) + MA vs China + Contact with Rome(Rome must be bigger and/or stronger than Japan, as it's more expensive).

Of course, China also has Contact with England(apart from Rome and Japan): If we could only make some damage to China, so they'd give us their contacts and/or techs cheaper by point-stick...
Certainly, if we'll go to war with China, don't trade with them and give them our money.

P.S.: the Chinese horse are pillaged by Greece, as it seems from the WM. That's good for us.

btw: at some point, we'd need to send a unit near than mountain of SF we don't "see", so, no new barb camps will appear.

P.S.2: just look at the WM, see where China has settled Chengdu; you can see red borders to the E(probably it's Rome).

P.S.: MUCH jungle is on this game.
 
Idea: before starting war with china we could trade republic to them, as they´ll revolt then.
I think we should concentrate attack on Canton and up. Southern cities are likely to flip.
 
China already knows Republic, Mathematics and Polytheism, and has contact with Rome, Japan and England.

Since we're not exactly ready to capture Chinese cities, and we'll REVOLT soon, IMHO, it's better to PAY Greece for ROP, and when we're a Republic to ask them for an MA vs China and also pay them less for another contact. What do you think?
 
I did no see save yet but I think we may trade for gpt with greeks and for cash with China.
It will be very beneficial to get WM.
 
@Ivan: the save is uploaded to the server. Better to see it and say if you have more0 specific ideas(other than the ones you said).

The same goes for the rest of the Team, of course.

@Ivan: Trade for Contacts or techs? What do you mean exactly? Also, what about some of my suggestions above?
 
I'm thinking that we can buy contact with England from China and then sell it to Greece. We could also renegotiate peace with China to get concessions. We can then hammer them in 20 turns. That will give us time to build up and revolt to republic.

I really don't want war with China until we are positioned to profit from it (taking Canton).

Note that there is no where to settle near the iron that won't provoke a Greek attack. If we settle 2 squares away from an existing AI city it will provoke an attack. We will need several spears and maybe walls to defend it.
 
AdrianE said:
I'm thinking that we can buy contact with England from China and then sell it to Greece. We could also renegotiate peace with China to get concessions. We can then hammer them in 20 turns. That will give us time to build up and revolt to republic.
Good ideas. Greece doesn't have contact with England yet, so maybe we can get a good discount for the other contacts.
AdrianE said:
I really don't want war with China until we are positioned to profit from it (taking Canton).
Better to revolt first, build a some archers -gather a SoD ready to strike- and then attack, as I don't either like to send 1-2 archers at a time.
AdrianE said:
Note that there is no where to settle near the iron that won't provoke a Greek attack. If we settle 2 squares away from an existing AI city it will provoke an attack. We will need several spears and maybe walls to defend it.
If we can only manage to keep it for a while, at least, until we pump some swords and/or knights(I'm also fine with the first, as long as we create a strong SoD), even if Greece razed/captured it, the damage would have been done for them.
We can always pay them gpt for g(lent some gold and pay gpt back), so they have a reason not to attack us, but we'd have to comply if they demanded something(even if we gifted them dyes would be good and keep them happy).

Better to discuss what exactly and how to trade, before continuing: we're at a critical turn right now.
 
I've had a look in more detail at the trades available:

Greece:
contact with Japan for WM,6GPT,70G
contact with Rome for WM,7GPT,74G
WM for WM,71G or 4GPT

China
contact with England for WM, 11GPT,81G
contact with Japan for WM, 5GPT,81G
contact with Rome for 7GPT,67G
WM for WM,6GPT,77G

I don't think we could get a lot by renegotiating peace with China. We might get a few gold.

Note that China is in anarchy.

We might want to consider deliberately breaking our reputation. We can buy WM and contacts from China for GPT. Then do the MA deal with Greece and immediately break the deal to avoid paying. It might just be worth it.
 
If we first prepare ourselves(for a good SoD), and capture raze 2-3 of it's cities, I'm sure China will want to offer more for peace.

I don't know if it'd be good to break our reputation: what the others say about it?

I'd also like to trade for contacts first(and also be SURE to trade for TM and WM EVERY turn).
 
Prefer not to give up rep yet. We need to have a tech lead to do that.
I would trade for english contact, then hope to trade greece contact to england for 1 of the other contacts we don´t have. And ofcourse, we need a map.
 
I think we must trade Contact from Greeks.
Then Republic will be cheaper.
MA vs China is very expensive, almost equal to contact with romans, but I am not sure, that we want it.
Then we trade second contact from greess for republic.
we may trade contact with English then. (It will be much cheaper)
And English WM for our WM, or Math for contact with greeks.
Then back WM to Greek and China.
 
OK

I'll buy one contact from Greece for mostly gpt. We'll research republic asap. We'll trade republic for whatever contacts/WM we can get from Greece in a couple of turns. I'll make no alliances

I'll trade WM around. I'll build up some archers to take on China in the future.
 
AdrianE said:
OK

I'll buy one contact from Greece for mostly gpt. We'll research republic asap. We'll trade republic for whatever contacts/WM we can get from Greece in a couple of turns. I'll make no alliances

I'll trade WM around. I'll build up some archers to take on China in the future.
Oh, no! You will not get back gpt!
we must trade all we can till the end!
Using the fact that Greeks did not make contacts themselves.
Trade all WM now! and Republic and Math in THIS turn.
You may
1) Get contacts for MA vs China or
2) Get loan from China and pay lump sum to Greek for contacts and get money back for WM, Republic and Math. Trade English contact with Greeks.
 
@Adrian: I think, Ivan might want to propose an exact plan on how we're going to make all these deals in 1 single turn(pre-turn).

Have you played already or not? If not, better wait a bit.
 
Hope everything OK with Adrian.
However he did not reply in 2 days.
May I play 1 turn and stop again?
I can play few more tomorrow.
Ivan.
 
Playing now
I played 1 turn and upload file to server. Sinse we are at anarchy
may play few more turns tomorrow. May be better to discuss situation again.
We cant go to war wvs China now.
 
@Ivan, fine by me. 48 hours is custom.
It's a vital turn this one. I don't know who our best trader is, I think that one should play at least this turn. I know that counts me out :( still have to learn a lot about that. I would at least get the english contact and sell it to greece. The english might have yet another contact (I was able to trade contact like that one game). Getting maps is probably the highest priority.
 
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