SGOTM8 - Ivan

[King Alexander]

3) To build Copernicus in capital is very difficult. AI will cascade wonders and, because Copernicus very cheap they may get it straight as Astronomy discover. We must pre-build it and to be sure hold monopoly on Astronomy until Copernicus will be built.

We may try not trading it, but the AI usually researches Astronomy right after Education to get a shot at Copernicus.

5) To summarize above it will be total disaster to miss Copernicus, like miss TGL in AWD SGTOM7. Unwise Chivalry research made delay of research progress at 15 turns and put at risk our build up of Copernicus. I thought we agreed about research rate and order. I changed research to Theology and set rate at maximum.

Ok, if we think that we put in danger Copernicus than researching Invention, go ahead.
We should be ready EITHER WAY to attack Greece in 16 turns, no matter what.

6) It is not too late to learn plan more then 40 turns ahead. Now dilemma is war with Greeks . It is not good to have it before GA because money limited, also it is not good to have it at GA for obvious reasons.

It's not a dilemma: it's about our survival into the game. If Greece builds many knights and Axemen while we don't own the Iron anymore, it may attack us and capture half of our cities.
Besides, we WON'T find such an opportunity again(as Greece is now).

ATTACK in 16 turns, IMHO.

We'll get money by trading the luxuries to other civs and by having more cities on our island, so we'll research faster.

7) I don’t see any reason with delay of capture Beijing.

No, better for us to let Greece lose it's units on Beijings' Elite spears(as long as Beijing lasts, anyway).
Keep our forces to ATTACK Greece!!!

We can take Bejing ANY TIME we want, afterwards.

8) Research, I think will be Theo, Education, Astronomy, Invention, Gunpowder, Chemistry, Physics, ToG. We also may want to build Newton in NY, because it will be very difficult to build it in Washington.

Yes, I'd want us to also build Newton's.

btw: maybe, we should also build Copernicus in NY? I think, it has more shields. If possible, it'd be better for us to have both Wonders(Copernicus and Newtons) in ONE city, so, it'll help us much more with the research.

Alright, let's go for Theology then.

 

[I. Larkin]

I'v plaid 8 turns
"It's not a dilemma: it's about our survival into the game. If Greece builds many knights and Axemen while we don't own the Iron anymore, it may attack us and capture half of our cities.
Besides, we WON'T find such an opportunity again(as Greece is now). " Our Aemy strong vs greeks. Want to ask: Shall I declare vs Vikings or better save forses for Greeks?
Now better to have Wonder in Capital. After Hospitals in NY. Will see. After Markertplace I gonna to prebiuld Copernicus.

 

[AdrianE]

Start the Copnericus prebuild. I'm ok with that. No war with anyone but Greece. I don't want to have to defend against viking beserks. Maybe we should set the vikings off against England.

China is an interesting case. We could demand their overseas city in a few turns as long as we don't take Bejing.
On the Otherhand Bejing has 2 cows and could be a useful city for us.

We should have about 12 knights after Ivan's 8 turns. You kept building knights, correct?

 

[I. Larkin]

I renegotiated peace treaty with England and got 80 for that. We cannot go to war at 20 turns. Same with China. Moreover, we are bound for 40 turns with China and Japan.

 

[nerovats]

Forgot about golden age.
I think we should take on greece now, while we have the advantidge. When they control the iron it'll be a huge problem to take them on.

 

[King Alexander]

I don't want to have to defend against viking beserks. Maybe we should set the vikings off against England.

I also don't want to defend against berserkers, because..well, HOW defend from them? They're amphibious, and they'll beat our spears for breakfast attacking DIRECTLY our cities.

Maybe, we should make some short of deal with them, gifting them techs for MA's vs England, and when we control the Iron, MA vs Rome.

Once the Vikings learn Invention, we SHOULD have 2 spears/pikes in ALL our coastal cities, and also, upgrade them when we learn new techs(berserkers have an attack of 6!!! They're like cavalry).

China is an interesting case. We could demand their overseas city in a few turns as long as we don't take Bejing.
On the Otherhand Bejing has 2 cows and could be a useful city for us.

Don't worry about that , at all: we'll capture Bijing any time we want: the important is to get a stronghold in the other island.

@Ivan: save our knights and the rest of our units for Greece: they don't have spears but hoplites, don't forget that.

 

[King Alexander]

@Ivan: we only have 5 knights(3 more are being produced). I'm not sure that we'll make it, 100%. I'd prefer a quick and decisive war with Greece, and not a struggling one.
If the RNG will be against us, we won't have an easy time.

I think, we should pillage the Iron now: send a unit there, and even if we won't make it to pillage the Iron in 2-3 turns(Greece's borders may expand in any "minute"), have the unit fortified and ready to pillage, once we get in war.

IMHO, we should keep our units outside St.Louis: the city has a flip risk!

Sell the Chinese our TM and WM(separetly), and with the 88g, hurry the knight in Philadephia: maybe, we'll get to build 1 more knight.

IMHO, we should have 2 spears/pikemen PERMANENTLY fortified in our gems colonies, and even better, start fortresses there: we don't want to lose them(rep hit).

 

[I. Larkin]

I uploaded file to Server.
King- Alex up. Plan remain the same: war with Greeks straight after deal expire.
Calculation shows, that culture border expand will happend turn after that (or the same, do not know).

 

[AdrianE]

5 knights!!!! Thats disasterous. We should have a lot more. Ivan what did you build?

Edit: I see we have 7 knights and 4 more on the way. I would have expected more.

Corinth would cost 38 gold to investigate. I think its worth it. That way we know when we lose iron for sure.

 

[King Alexander]

I "got it".

I'll play some turns, at least, until the deal with Greece expires or something extraordinary happens.

btw: I see that we'll go for Copernicus in our capital(Sistine pre-build). I hope, we'll make it, as it's a bit late now to build it in Boston(Washington: 17spt, Boston: 9spt --- both numbers are the uncorrupted shields).

 

[I. Larkin]

0 210 AD move troops to Begin.
Set Sci 40% and micromanage Cities. Change some to marketplaces.
1. 230 AD
IBT Greeks attack Begin and kill elite spear. More Greeks horses on the way.
2. 250 AD Japan has TGL. Capture Beijing. Archers and axe promote to elite.
Trade 2 workers from Greeks for 56 gold, Rome 64 for WM+4gpt.
3. 260 AD. Roman make peace with Japan.
4. 270 AD English has Thelogy and trade it to Romans for Chivalry. Japan will have both next turn. Reduce Sci 20%.
5. 280 Make peace with Japan 3gpt (they pay) for 14 gold.
Cancel Alliance with Greeks vs China. Make peace with China for 7gpt+38 gold.
My mistake: I may make peace with China first and get more from Japan. (I have lost 22 gold) . Theo from Japan: Dyes+12gpt+11. English still at war vs Japan.
Note, we bound Peace with Japan and China for 40 turns. Do not forget to renegotiate it at 480 AD
IBT English asks Alliance vs Japan. No way.
6. 290 AD. Renegotiate peace with English. Got 80. Now we bound for 20 turns.
7. 300 Greeks cancel RoP. No problem.
8. 310 AD Our troops expelled from Greece. Worker Build Road to St Louis.
9.320 AD Washington Market -> St Chapel. (Copernicus at 24 turns) Wish to have it faster.
10. 330 AD Cancel deal with Greeks. (Wine vs Gems) Trade gems to Japan. Set Lux 30%. Trade chivalry to china for 53 gold. (I trade WM every turn, btw). Not sure, tha Vikings deserve it for 17 gold.
Recommendations: Do not reduce Science! Attack Sparta without delay by 5 Knights,
Attach Thermophyle by Axemens. Wish Conehead fix his computer and carry out war.

 

[King Alexander]

IBT
The Vikings begin Sun Tzu's.

340AD (1)
Nothing. Sell WM for 13g.

IBT
China and Greece sign Peace Treaty.

350AD (2)
SF: library.

IBT
England begins Sistine Chapel.
Greece founded Mycenae E of Beijing.

360AD (3)
Nothing, no WM trades.

370AD (4)
Atlanta: barracks --> knight. Trade WM for 6g.

IBT
England and Japan sign Peace Treaty.

380AD (5)
Trade WM for 5g.

IBT
England(York) finishes the Hanging Gardens.
Vikings begin Sun Tzu's.

390AD (6)
We lose our Iron colony to Greeece.

England, Japan, and Rome have learned Invention.


Declare WAR to Greece.

IBT
Greece, Japan starts Sistine.

400AD (7)
We lose 2 knights attacking Sparta, but we capture it. Move axemen inside Thermopylae.
Reduce science to 30%, Education in 2. Sell WM for 4g.

410AD (8)
We lose 2 units, but we capture Thermopylae and 3 Greek workers. Sell WM for 9g.

IBT
The Vikings demand our dyes: I say: "get lost".

420AD (9)
Sell WM for 5g. The turn is incomplete: we learned Education, and I want to hear opinions of whether we'll trade it or wait.

So, I wait...

 

[AdrianE]

Pillage the greek Iron ASAP!!!!!!! That is your highest priority.

England and japan will pay us a fortune for Education plus invention. That will let us boost research and build 4 attack units. Sell it to japan to wreck the GLib advantage

 

[King Alexander]

Ok, I'll try to pillage their Iron. I wanted to have all knights ready for the next attack, but their Iron might cause problems(I DO expect that a few axemen of knights will be produced over the next turns).

Thing is, if I had 4-5 more knights, I'd also be in the endge of capturing Athens: yes, some knights are still in our production, but I wish I had them NOW. It's logical that we would lose some units while attacking, and some would need to heal.

Yes, I'll trade Education to civs that have good money/techs, but I was wondering if we wanted to make any MA's, like the last time.

 

[King Alexander]

If we make the trade NOW, I'd surely hurry some of the knights in production, as we need them now, so we don't have a long war.

Ok, I'll play the last turns.

 

[conehead234]

Pillage that iron. How many knights do we have?

 

[King Alexander]

Pre-turn:
Trade Education to Japan for Invention + WM + 19g + 20gpt.
Trade Education to England for WM + 76g + 26gpt.
Science up to 50%, Astronomy in 13 turns.
Hurry 2 knights.

IBT
Rome declared war to Japan.
4(!) horses enter inside Sparta!!!

430AD (10)
Attack Delphi: we lose a knight, but we capture the city. I pillage the Iron. I can't do anything about the Greek horses, but only hope Sparta will stand(temporarily, I leave unguarded St.Louis to help Sparta with a pikeman -- it also has a spear and an axeman that just went there).
Sell WM for 4g.

IBT
Unfortunately, Sparta falls. The RNG wasn't with us at all!
The Vikings begin Leonardo's!!! --- that means, they can build Galloglass!


440AD (11)
Sell WM for 3g. The knight that pillaged the Iron is inside Sparta: if Sparta won't build an hoplite ibt, I think, we have good chances of recapturing the city.
I'm also forced to increase the luxury slider, because mayny cities were about to riot(= that we lost Sparta).

IBT
...Nevertheless, 2 non-core cities riot.
Japan starts Sun Tzu's.
The Greeks move 1 wounded horse inside Sparta that came from Knossos, so they won't lose the city with one attack! Who said the AI is stupid?

450AD (12)
Attack Athens, we lose 2 knights and the rest of them retreat. I move 3 more knights near Athens: I want to try one more turn, I hope you'll forgive me for exceeding my turns(from 12).
We kill a horse in Sparta.

460AD (13)
Athens stands to my attack: it constantly builds hoplites, as it seems... We better heal our knights first and gather them together and attack with a strong wave of forces.
We kill another Greek horse in Sparta, but the city has 1 more(another horse came from Knossos, but that city builds Sun Tzu's...).
I haven't moved all the units.

I'll play less turns next time: I wanted to give us an edge and conquer 1 more city.

Suggestions:
1) Better gather ALL our knights(we have 5 red-lined knights in and near Delphi, and 2 more knights are on their way to Delphi) together and attack Athens, otherwise, the city will stand(it also has pop8, and that gives it one more defence bonus).
2) Capture the other Greek cities with longbowmen.
3) Don't forget to re-negotiate Peace Treaty with China and Japan at 490 AD(although, the AI will bring the deal to us, I believe).

 

[King Alexander]

In any case, NO peace treaty, until we control the cities near the Iron(not Knossos), otherwise, the war will be in vain.

The problem is that it takes some time for our units to go at the front line(we don't have railroads yet), especially, x-x-1 movement units. Anyway, we can definetly defeat the Greeks now we know Invention, and with the help of the remaining knights.

During my turns, I killed a Greek Axeman attacking Delphi. I suspect, Athens and the othet city near the Iron, could be building Axemen or knights, but they won't build any of them after that, as I pillaged the Iron.

Question:
The time to get Astronomy has dropped now: will we withstand any demands made from the AI? Better to control Iron as fast as we can, so we're in position to refuse demands, especially now that we control a large territory and we need units in every place to defend it.

btw: when we can, fortify spears to the Iron and our gems(it's IMPORTANT). A Greek worker could be sent to make a colony to the Iron, instead of waiting for borders expansion.

We must do something about the Vikings: maybe, trade them something, to be safe from an amphibious attack? After a while, when we control the Iron, we could ally with them against someone else. I'm sure, they'll help us.

Edit: Can someone with better English than me write a spoiler and also psot pics?(I definetly can't post pics )

 

[conehead234]

Guys, I am going to give my civ a go today. I may be able to play some turns.

 

[King Alexander]

Guys, I am going to give my civ a go today. I may be able to play some turns.

I wish you luck with your PC, as we need you to come back.