SGOTM8 - Ivan

[conehead234]

Preturn-460 AD-We need a barracks near the front for healing. Switch Delphi to a barracks. Down science so we can rush it next turn. Advance a knight.
IT-Phili longbow->longbow. Seatle knight->longbow
Turn 1- 470 AD- Rush barracks in Delphi. Science back up. Attack Athens, kill a hopite, no damage. our knight retreats at Sparta.
IT- Greece moves 2 archers into sparta, a spartan horse kills our MI outside Sparta. NY longbow->longbow. Delphi rax->library. Atlanta longbow->longbow.
Turn 2-480 AD- 3 knights are now fully healed in Delphi. Kill 2 hopites in Athens, no loses and the city falls. 4 resistors. We now have wines. Down lux to 30%. Up science, astronomy in 6.
IT- Japan and china bring up peace, cannot get anything from them, so sign straight peace. 3 greek archers appear NE of athens. Boston longbow->longbow. Treasury is running low.
Turn 3-490 AD- We have 2 more healed knights in delphi, 2 dead hopites later and Cornith is ours. Sink a galley while taking the city, even though it doesn't matter. Iron is outside greek borders now. Kill 2 archers, no loses. Down science, we need more money or we go bankrupt. Switch longbows to knight prebuilds, greece is toast.
IT-Lose a knight to a horse.
Turn 4- 500 AD- Kill 2 hopites, sparta falls. No loses. Kill a hopite at Xinjian. Kill a horse and archer.
IT-Japan and england sign vs china.
Turn 5-510 AD-Retreat at Xinjian. Attack Knosos, kill a hopite, loose a knight.
IT-Severe WW hits.
Turn 6-520 AD- Up lux. Lose a knight, knosos falls. England has gunpowder.
IT- Lose a longbow outside Argos.
Turn 7-530AD-Kill longbow.
IT-Rome demands TM and 20 gold, I cave.
Turn 8-540 AD-Astronomy in 1. Iron connected. Kill a hopite at Shanghai, retreat a knight. Switch all universitys to knights. kill hopite and pult pair. Argos falls to our longbows.
IT-our knight retreats. Astronomy comes in. Trade it to england for gunpowder and 45 gold. Switch Washington to Copernicus. Copernicus completes and we enter golden age. We have saltpeter near NY.

I'll stop here for discussion. Greece has a few scattered cities. Save on server.

 

[King Alexander]

A few suggestions:
1) Try HARD for Leader fishing! For example, you can kill that Greek archer with our Elite knight from Corinth, and, if the galley hasn't uploaded, you can send there the knight from St.Louis.

Do the same with all the other Elites we have, and maybe we'll get lucky.

I'd switch Thermopylae to a courthouse and rush it when we can, and ASAP start the FP, Great Leader or not(we had done the same in our game with Russia, remember? Hand-built the FP and we won at the end).

2) Please, mcromanage the cities, because I had left many of them with clowns, due to WW.
Build harbors in cities that need to grow more, and after the knights finish, build univercities in all our core cities.

3) Beware of the Vikings: we should have 2 muskets in EVERY coastal city we have, to be safe. Maybe, we could trade/gift something to them(not horses!).

4) Washington should prepare for a PRE-BUILD after the university: we also want to build Newton's

5) STARVE ALL the Greek cities to pop1: we don't want any flips. We may consider to capture Pharsalos also(it has saltpeter and gems in those N mountains), and, maybe, stop war after that.
We don't want to completely kill the Greeks: FREE TECHS is the reason to keep them into the game.

P.S.: good job!

btw: it looks like Rome is giving a beating to Japan. What the heck are those samurais doing? Rome covers much land already.

 

[I. Larkin]

"Declare WAR to Greece. ??????

IBT
Greece, Japan starts Sistine.

400AD (7)
We lose 2 knights attacking Sparta, but we capture it. Move axemen inside Thermopylae."
Why you attack Sparta NEXT turn????

"In any case, NO peace treaty, until we control the cities near the Iron(not Knossos), otherwise, the war will be in vain." Sparta lost was a terrible mistake.
1)We must send All we can now to Recapture Sparta. ans hold it By all means.
2) Micromanage St-Louis to irrigateted GL, when it grow Rush settler.
3) Settle at Wine niear Iron. Send workers to Iron.
After the healing Knights may try to Capture Athenes - Kornith.
Do not forget to renegotiate Peace Treaties with China, Japan and English.
Finger cross, but looks that we get astronomy just in time.
One turn before Copernicus we can Trade it but do not "trade around for free".
Crossposted.
Conehead, How you got Gunpowder?

 

[King Alexander]

@Ivan: Yes, I should have moved the axemen the turn before.
Anyway, I COULD NOT reach Thermopylae in 1 turn, as a Greek horse was blocking the road that turn, that's why I waited: if I had attacked the same turn as I declared, that would be a reputation hit.

As for Sparta, I did anything I could, while taking the battle to the other Greek cities(before they could build more units), BUT, I didn't expect 4 Greek horses to defeat 1 spear, 1 pikeman and 1 axeman(we didn't kill any horse): the RNG wasn't with us that turn.

 

[I. Larkin]

A few suggestions:
1) Try HARD for Leader fishing! For example, you can kill that Greek archer with our Elite knight from Corinth, and, if the galley hasn't uploaded, you can send there the knight from St.Louis.


2) Please, mcromanage the cities, because I had left many of them with clowns, due to WW.
Build harbors in cities that need to grow more, and after the knights finish, build univercities in all our core cities.

3) Beware of the Vikings: we should have 2 muskets in EVERY coastal city we have, to be safe. Maybe, we could trade/gift something to them(not horses!).

4) Washington should prepare for a PRE-BUILD after the university: we also want to build Newton's

5) STARVE ALL the Greek cities to pop1: we don't want any flips. We may consider to capture Pharsalos also(it has saltpeter and gems in those N mountains), and, maybe, stop war after that.
We don't want to completely kill the Greeks: FREE TECHS is the reason to keep them into the game.

1) Yes. Attack archer with Elite Knight. We must get GL and build FT in Thermophile. I do not belive that we may build it Bicks by Bricks.
2) we Do not need MORE Knights. Build UNIVERSITIES NOW in NY and Washington. to make GA more efficient.
At GA we may have 30% LUX. Better to make peace after GL and, because rep lost we may start war anytime.
3) I do not belive in Suicide mission of Vikings. Well, if they declare, we must do something...
4) As I wrote already, we will have Newton in NY. AIs will finish all GWs soon and will have nothing to prebuild.
5) We may demand Pharsaphalos now.

 

[I. Larkin]

More suggestions: At peace we may have 20% lux. The only reason to continue war is fishing for GL.
We desperately need FP at Greece.
China have 2 Cities. English will pay 20 gpt for Alliance vs China. Why not? May be this turn we will get Canton? Send workers to jungle. The most effeicent way is Clean, road, forest, Cut, mine.

 

[I. Larkin]

"Trade it to england for gunpowder and 45 gold. "
That cheap??
"IT- Japan and china bring up peace, cannot get anything from them, so sign straight peace. "
You may try it turn before.

 

[conehead234]

"Trade it to england for gunpowder and 45 gold. "
That ceap??

It would have gone down even further after we completed the wonder, so I traded while it had some value. We need muskets to defend our lands. Anyway, which tech should I go for now, I guess we go straight for Newtons, but I say we grab banking for more income.

 

[I. Larkin]

It would have gone down even further after we completed the wonder, so I traded while it had some value. We need muskets to defend our lands. Anyway, which tech should I go for now, I guess we go straight for Newtons, but I say we grab banking for more income.

I thought Astronomy more expensive than GP. Anyhow, if you did it after Negotiation it is a good move. With Libs, University and copernicus better concentrate on research, not Banks and trade technology for income. Yes, we go straight for Newton.
Nerovats up. or you play few more?
We may take a risk and start prebuild Newton in Washington after University.
We may MCMg Washingtonn to have 30+spt and after "rush 80 s improuvment swich to uni to get it in 4 turns."

 

[conehead234]

I would like to play a few more to make up for what I missed, but if nevorats gets it before me, he can go ahead and play. I won't be able to finish untill tomorrow anyway.

 

[King Alexander]

Yes, we go straight for Newton.

That's the right thing to do.

We may take a risk and start prebuild Newton in Washington after University.
We may MCMg Washingtonn to have 30+spt and after "rush 80 s improuvment swich to uni to get it in 4 turns."

We can DEFINETLY go for Newton's in Washington WITHOUT a risk, IF we want to, and this is the way to do it:
After the university in Washington, start a Wonder(if Music Theory comes up, even better), and change it to Newton's once we learn ToG. At the same time, after the university in NY(ALSO hurry it partially, when we can), we could pre-build the palace, and be ABSOLUTELY sure that we'll get Newton's. What's even better with this plan is that, we MAY get lucky and grab one more Wonder, like Smith's Trading Company.

We haven't anything to lose if we try it, but only gain: yes, it's a small risk if we lose Newton's in Washington, but we'll get in NY, but if manage to gain 2 wonders, the benefits will be HUGE(don't forget that Smith's pays for markets, banks, harbors and airports).
IMHO, I'd prefer to choose Boston for the palace pre-build, as it has more uncorrupted shields than NY.

Now, I'd like us to continue the war for Leader fishing: just have some Elites waiting near the Greek cities, and attack the new units that come out of it
In any case, once we sign peace, demand Pharsalos.

Sign MA with England against China, as Ivan suggested: 20gpt is A LOT of money to pass by.

btw: I'm for starting the FP in Thermopylae AFTER a courthouse: we won't gain anything anyways if we don't get the FP. The FP could help us even if it's going to be built in the mid Industrial Ages.
IF we get a Leader, hurry it, BUT, I REPEAT AGAIN: we don't have anything to lose by trying to built the FP by hand; the Greek area is TOO corrupted, anyway, to give us even a small benefit.

@Ivan: in the game with Russia, we had done exactly the same thing and we won the game. I don't see any reason AT ALL of why we shouldn't try it, and be covered by all aspects -- you NEVER know how the game will be in the future, so, let's be prepared for the worst.

 

[I. Larkin]

After the university in Washington, start a Wonder(if Music Theory comes up, even better), and change it to Newton's once we learn ToG. At the same time, after the university in NY(ALSO hurry it partially, when we can), we could pre-build the palace, and be ABSOLUTELY sure that we'll get Newton's. What's even better with this plan is that, we MAY get lucky and grab one more Wonder, like Smith's Trading Company.
B)btw: I'm for starting the FP in Thermopylae AFTER a courthouse: we won't gain anything anyways if we don't get the FP. The FP could help us even if it's going to be built in the mid Industrial Ages.
IF we get a Leader, hurry it, BUT, I REPEAT AGAIN: we don't have anything to lose by trying to built the FP by hand; the Greek area is TOO corrupted, anyway, to give us even a small benefit.


1) we will not have 2 prebuilds.
2)Well, if "optional" Techs will come "for free", it is OK. But we must hold general line to Flight.
3) Better not to kill greeks before Nationalism. But kill them straight at the turn they got it.
B) Thermphil so currupted that Corthouse will not help. Better to choose closer City.
After Corthouse And Lib we may start build FP and swich to Uni if get GL and build FP in Thermophile.

 

[King Alexander]

@Ivan: Why not BE SURE that we'll get Newton's? Why not try to be lucky and snug one more wonder, like Smith's?
We definetly have other cities to build military, and don't forget that, after some time, we won't be able to support a huge military, as we're a Republic.

I don't see any reason of why we shouldn't do it: we have only to gain, and, if we get lucky, that will help us to finish the game much sooner.

Anyway, ALL what I suggest begin from the view of NOT LOSING NEwton's: we have to have 2 pre-builds if we want to be sure, otherwise, we simply can't.

 

[I. Larkin]

K-A, see B) at previous post. IMHO that better to have more Muskets and walls, universities and harbors, and Declare Vikings asap (without MA). They never pay gpt and very useles CIV.

 

[King Alexander]

K-A, see B) at previous post. IMHO that better to have more Muskets and walls, universities and harbors, and Declare Vikings asap (without MA). They never pay gpt and very useles CIV.

Ivan, I understand what you mean, but as yourself admitted, it's not SURE that we'll get Newton's.

I was only propose a way to get it for sure, that's all(and with a bit luck build 1 more Wonder).

Anyway, I won't say anything about it anymore: maybe, I'm wrong in my strategy over this.

 

[nerovats]

Great progress!
Will play in 10 hours when OK with Conehead. I agree with the overal strat. Not sure about declaring on the Vikings tho. We should try and get a city on one of the other island, the rome/japan island seems most doable, altough we just signed peace with Japan, may start on Rome, MA with Japan?

 

[I. Larkin]

Conrhead wrote: "but if nevorats gets it before me, he can go ahead and play. I won't be able to finish untill tomorrow anyway."
So, you may play If you wish but write "playing now"
1) Attack archer with Elite Kinght.
2) MA with English vs China (20 gpt!)
3)Reduce Lux!
Well, Embassy at Kioto and MA vs Rome is a good idea. But I think Peace with Greeks first.
Reduce Lux. At GA we may get Tech in 5 turns, so Newton in Washington definitly doable. Start prebuild after University. Also Lib, corthouse, and FP prebuild in Buffallo?

 

[conehead234]

Why all the wars, WW is not going to help us with research. All these wars are going to bite us in the butt.

Nerovats, go ahead and play.

 

[nerovats]

Pre-turn
reduce lux, up science
change NY to uni
attack with elite horse gain leader
move lot of units into greek territory to get most out for peace, get Pharsalos, WM and 6 gold.
get aliance with england vs china gaining 19pgt
can up science even more, chemistry in 6 now
switch all knights to unis and courts
MM all cities, chemistry down to 5
560AD
rush FP in Thermopylea.
570AD, 580AD
nothing
590AD
rush some libs to use up money a barb horse appeared from north can't get there in time, so used up gold
down science
600AD
set science on physics
620AD
Washington uni->sistine
sell chemistry to english for Music Theory, WM, 22gpt, 190 gold
sell it to japan for 24gpt, 15 gold and WM
rest has no gols to spend so trade some maps.
640AD
get physics->ToG in 4
move knight into hut get map.
NY uni->JS Bach
650AD
moving

Cashed in a bit on techs taking their gold will reduce their speed so they'll have to keep buying. Didn't start on Vikings yet wanted som defence. Should be able to do so in 10. Since we lost our rep now anyway (far war on chinese) make peace when able to get city on other island.

 

[I. Larkin]

"Why all the wars, WW is not going to help us with research. All these wars are going to bite us in the butt. "
WW bite us only if we have AI at our land. Question is can we get at least few overseas Cities before flight? With current situation we have chanses that we get flight before AI will get Rep Parts and with Cavaleries we may advanses from it. I think we may declare romans when finish Greeks war.
Adreian up. Please McMng Cities for food/production where nessecary.
I think we do not need 2 wonders. Newton in Washingtonn is what we need. Get ToG ASAP, then relax a bit (70% say) at Magnetism. Hope we'll trade Metalurgy for Physics.
I recomend war with romans, but we may disscuss it. I recomend ToG, Magnetizm, Metalurgy, Steam. Let discuss do we need sanitation or go straight to flight?