SGOTM8 - Tim

[pindicator]

@Joe

There are definitely advantages to keeping around enemy civs, provided they make good trading partners. I haven't really thought one way or the other about eliminating our neighbors. By what I have seen in other SCs and other games is that it is better to get a large area producting for you quickly that you can build up and develop than it is to rely on the AI to research the tech you want them to. Remember, they may research unneeded techs or even double up on the tech you are researching.

But I think we will find other civs as they get to map making (I'm guessing in the next 20 turns or so we will see our first enemy galley; remember, we didn't get philo first and neither did China or Greece, so somebody out there knows more than us). And once we get those other contacts, China and Greece will not be necessary for us to keep around. Better to convert their lands to ours.

Don't look too much into what other teams do. I doubt any body else got sneak-attacked by China like we did; that was just very bad luck (unless Gyathaar had somethign to do with it! --That better, AlanH? ). I think we need to play the best we can with the game we are given.

As for the war, what we are trying to do is get us a good amount of cities. The more cities we get early on, the bigger the core we can develop and the better our research will be later in the game. If you don't feel comfortable with the amount of troops we have, these are your 10 turns Joe, and build up more troops. If you feel confident you can take Philly and continue pumping troops to push northward, go ahead and start it out.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

@Mr Y - The workers, as noted, are very much needed. When we get to the point of hacking through that jungle (hopefully soon), then we will be glad to have them. The settler is being built in NY because of the high food output there. That city will grow beyond our means to keep it happy in very short order otherwise. I also noted that Wash is on a perfect arch-arch-worker 5 turn cycle how it is, and I would leave it that way for the time being. Of course, spears could be subbed in for archers as needed. There is a lux iun China, but roading and protecting the gems will consume far less resources than taking and connecting the lux there, and much quicker.

@Pind - The Chinese do not scare me. The second "wave" of archers are all regulars. The real p[roblem is the mountains themselves. As such, I'd like to have a couple more archers before we push. Leave a couple home in NY for defense, then push a stack through to Philly and onward. Once we get through the mountains, we should be able to beat them down quicker, and not need to keep units hoime as much.

@Joe - The problem with your atrat is that a huge part of the score is reflected in number of happy and content citizens. While Grece and China could certainly help us with tech, I think we are better off eliminating them, juicing up the cities ASAP, and worrying about the tech pace later. Also, colonies on other continents are near useless if we can't get troops to them. There will be no dom or conquest win until Helis, no matter which way you cut it. For now, Move on China, and try to be frugal with our units until we can be sure they are on the ropes. Keep every city you get, burn nothing, and keep your eyes peeled for slaves.

 

[joethreeblah]

Ok, if that's the concensus, then that's what we'll do. I just think the helecopters dont come along for a long long long time, enough to build our own military units on other continents.

 

[AlanH]

@Joe - The problem with your atrat is that a huge part of the score is reflected in number of happy and content citizens.

Just a reminder that score is irrelevant in this competition. The ranking is based purely on how quickly you conquer the world. An early victory date is everything.

 

[joethreeblah]

Ok I have 1 turns left, but I need help.

(0) 750BC
Boston > Spearman

IBT
China moves its 3 archers S, 1 N of New York
Washington Archer > Worker

(1) 730BC
Killed 3 archers w/ 1 Elite (-2), 2 Vets (-1x2)
Whipped Atlanta to produce spearman

IBT
Washington Worker > Archer
Boston Spearman > Archer
Atlanta Spearman > Warrior

(2) 710BC
Sent Atlanta Spearman SE to gaurd mountaintop

IBT
2 Barb Horses attacks spearman in SE, promoted to Elite
New York Settler > Archer

(3) 690BC
Worker in SE finishes road, I move him and spearman 1 SE

IBT
Washington Archer > Archer
Seattle Warrior > warrior

(4) 670BC Sent everyone North - 9 Archers, 2 spearmen

IBT
Spearman in SE kills another barb
Japan completes pyramids

(5) 650BC
Sent everyone North, 1 Chinese archer kicking back NE

IBT
Evil Chines Archer passes to the south
Atlanta Warrior > Spearm
Washington starts rioting again

I thought I was doing the archer archer worker pattern, but I tend to screw those things up.

(6) 630BC
Archer in NY goes north 2 and kills evil chinese Archer
Another barbarian shows up in the SE

War Time!

Attack Phili
Elite Archer kills eliete spear, loses 4 hp
Vet Archer kills reg spear, loses 3 hp
Vet archer dies against reg archer, enemy -2
Vet archer kills 1/3 reg archer

Philidelphia burns down
2 slaves
Change entertainment slider to 20%

IBT
Spearman in SE kills another barbarian

(7) 610BC Moved rest of units N into old phili spot
Settler builds San Francisco
Spot 2 greek reg archers chillin N SE
Kill another reg chinese archer stragglin around

IBT
2 greek archers move south, 2 NE from San Francisco
New York Archer > Spearman
Boston Archer > Archer

(8) 590BC
moved worker in SE 1 E to gems

IBT
2 Greek archers move S, taking a shortcut 1 E of San Francisco
Washington Settler < Cat
Seattle Warrior > Cat

Rome completes lighthouse

(9) 570BC
Colonize the gems
Rest Soldiers

IBT
Greeks Declare War!
Greeks capture a couple of workers with 1 reg archer NE
Attack San Fran with other reg archer, killing 1 spearman(they are at 1/3)
Chinese move 1 Vet Archer and 1 Reg Hoplight out of darkness to 2 NE
Also 1 Chinese reg archer E SE, and 1 Chinese warrior N NE

Boston > Spearman

(10) 550BC
Haven't played turn yet, see below
we have 10 archers and a spearman, I don't know who or what to attack

 

[joethreeblah]

Actually, I'm going to let you go for it Tim, instead of waiting to do one more turn.

Here's the new link.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_BC0550_01.SAV

mr. Y -- On deck, and on holiday soon, lucky duck!
pindicator
SesnOfWthr
joethreeblah
TimBentley -- up!

 

[joethreeblah]

So I got a colony going on the south east pretty easily. The 1 spearman is killing any barbs that try for us, and they have so far been too stupid to go around. I was almost tempted to attack the barb with my speerman but left it alone.

The greeks sneak attacked a stack of 12 with 2 archers, so I think we can pretty much kill anything on site from here on out.

I really need pointers in the future on keeping people happy I think. I try to follow the patters that people talk about, like archer archer worker, but i seem to **** it up every time.

I didn't choose to raiz the city, it just happened. There's another settler on the way up, and I think everything else is going ok.

It's not a huge force around us, only like 1 defender, I just didn't know what order to do it. Probably attack east so we're on the mountain.

 

[TimBentley]

Remember to check every cities' happiness after moving units (assuming you're in a government with military police) and change the lux slider if needed (I remember one time I counted the gold of barely content cities to deal with the reduced gold at the end of the golden age, and they rioted because units moved out ).

Got it. I should play tomorrow.

 

[joethreeblah]

Remember to check every cities' happiness after moving units (assuming you're in a government with military police) and change the lux slider if needed (I remember one time I counted the gold of barely content cities to deal with the reduced gold at the end of the golden age, and they rioted because units moved out ).

Got it. I should play tomorrow.

I believe you can only affect them with 2 units right? I'm sure I didn't lower them past that, it was just the pop increase.

 

[pindicator]

Good job joe! way to start reclaiming our lost lands.

Greece complicates things. More specifically, Greek hoplites complicate things. We really need cats to take them out.

Anyone else notice the purple border in the screenshot? The war takes priority, of course, but it would be nice to have a unit try to make contact.

 

[mr. Y]

Wow, I don't check the forum for 1 day and look now...
Well, it's looking better now. We have a decent attackforce and are kicking Chinese butt.
It also seems I overestimated the barbs and underestimated our workers in the SE.

Sesn: The workers will pay off when we need to use catapults, of course. I guess I was in slight panicmode because of the sneak-attack and wanted to focus solely on military. Things seem to be under control now. I'll remember to thank you for the workers later

Obviously we need some more spearmen now, and the question arises what we do with the next Chinese town (provided we get a choice). I have a slight preference for razing and re-settlement on the originally planned spots.

I must say I liked the idea behind Blah's strat a lot. I too would like to try to get to other islands before we have heli's. Remember I proposed to try for that using culture. I am not that concerned about not being able to transfer troops; If we are in another government we can buy troops in isolated cities.
Anyway we can postpone that decision until the point when the Chinese are reduced to 1 city on our island.

For now I would keep position in San Fransisco until some fresh spearmen arrive. We might still consider to seal off the mountain pass, I really would't like to see Greek hoplite/archerstacks south of the mountains, forcing us to increase defense empirewide...

good luck Tim

 

[TimBentley]

Since it's too late to finish playing tonight, I'll ask for advice on next tech. I would go for currency at maximum research, or republic at minimum research.

I'll also give an update: at 5 turns, the only visible units are a greek hoplite covering a healing archer, and I'm preparing for an attack.

P.S. China already has a city on another island (although it currently looks like a small one).

 

[joethreeblah]

Since it's too late to finish playing tonight, I'll ask for advice on next tech. I would go for currency at maximum research, or republic at minimum research.

I'll also give an update: at 5 turns, the only visible units are a greek hoplite covering a healing archer, and I'm preparing for an attack.

P.S. China already has a city on another island (although it currently looks like a small one).

Give em hell!

I'd say currency.

 

[pindicator]

I like that update Tim!!!!

I would go for Republic at max. It is by far the best gov't to be in for our aim of fast research. And the sooner we get it the sooner we get out of ugly despotism.

 

[TimBentley]

550(0): China is in anarchy
We have a strong military compared to China and Greece
I had forgotten that map trading was pushed back to MM
switch Washington to archer, switch forest to FP (more gold than plains)
switch New York to worker, switch plain to FP
switch Boston to settler, put entertainer on coast
San Francisco hopefully won't need walls in 17 turns, switch it to catapult
science to 90%
elite archer kills archer on mountain
send archer to mountain to look for purple
start to send warrior from Seattle to Atlanta to free up warrior to take out barb camp

IBT: Greek archer is redlined killing elite archer
I didn't notice that warrior up north
New York worker->warrior
Atlanta spear->archer

530(1): science to 70%

IBT: Washington archer->cat

510(2): China is a monarchy
science to 50%

IBT: spear in San Francisco barely survives two archer attacks by Greece

490(3): take out barb camp
science to 90%

IBT: Washington cat->cat
New York warrior->archer

470(4): science to 80% (no beakers wasted, with zero gold next turn )

IBT: learn literature

450(5): lose one archer taking out 3 Chinese archers, one warrior
get an extra gold in Boston
science to 40%
recall archer looking for purple
find that max research would currently get republic in 47 turns, libraries should reduce that
so start maximum research on republic

IBT: purple warrior comes in sight
Washington cat->worker
Boston settler->library
Atlanta archer->archer
Seattle cat->cat

430(6): Vikings (come to think of it, that civ choice seems appropriate) have 12 cities, 119g, HBR, know nobody else, lack math, CoL, literature, are building MoM in Trondheim
sell math to them for HBR, 119g, WM
they own an island to the west and just settled the island off our coast
science to 90%
northern warrior is redlined killing archer

IBT: Washington worker->library

410(7): zzz

IBT: northern warrior killed by archer
Vikings start Colossus

390(8): hire scientist in New York

IBT: New York archer->cat

370(9): Vikings know polytheism, but want code of laws and most of our gold for it
they just met China

IBT: Vikings start ToA

350(10): lose an archer taking out 3 Chinese archers

Notes: attacking should be possible about now
you could sell code of laws and contact with the greeks to Vikings for polytheism, WM, 8g

Here is the save.

 

[pindicator]

Nice turns, Tim! Good call on the Maps; I forgot that detail as well.

I say we push on, capture everything we can get online fast. The chinese have no culture in those jungle towns, so the flip risk should be very low. Build libraries between troop orders to get our research cranking out. Things are definitely looking better!

 

[TimBentley]

Someone ( ) found the conditions for getting a city from a hut here, and the result is founding a city to pop the goody huts won't get one. It could get a worthless (since there is no longer exploration there to be done) worker, a tech, a worthless (since the island is so small) warrior, gold, or worthless maps, however.

 

[joethreeblah]

Someone ( ) found the conditions for getting a city from a hut here, and the result is founding a city to pop the goody huts won't get one. It could get a worthless (since there is no longer exploration there to be done) worker, a tech, a worthless (since the island is so small) warrior, gold, or worthless maps, however.

Ok so it's copters, or war gifts.

 

[pindicator]

War gifts / cultural conversions on other islands are not very good ways to expand and conquer those islands. Unless we have a massive troop rushing endeavor from that town (and it will still take many turns to raise a force strong enough to conquer anything else on the island) helos are still the best shot.

 

[TimBentley]

I think mr. Y should be able to play before leaving, but if not, pindicator would be next.