Shacknews E3 Preview

Don’t worry guys; Civ V at release will have excellent multiplayer support, including stuff you would expect from Steamworks like a server browser and Steam Friends support.

More details about multiplayer and the aforementioned matchmaking will come in the next few weeks, but for now you can rest assured that you’ll be able to play multiplayer at release with ease.
 
That's great Greg, maybe you can't answer this now, but is part of that great support, a chat lobby? I'm asking since my research indicates that Steamworks is most definitely better at p2p matchmaking than Gamespy is, but Steamworks doesn't seem to have any history(outside L4D a Valve title) of hosting lobbies, all Steamworks games have lobbies supplied by the Producer/Developer, and not by Steam directly.

CS
 
no thats exaclty what it does. Server lists are simply better.

Well that depends on your definition of Matchmaking, it is a fairly vague term that in the most general sense only refers to the system that connects p2p players together in a game. How is does that from game to game varies widely.

I can understand that if you have a console background that you would think that matchmaking=auto matchmaking, but in the PC world it is not that specific. Gamespy matchmaking for instance that was used for Civ3 and Civ4 provided a games list, chat lobby and under the hood provided the code to connect the players togther when the game launched.

I expect that Steamworks will fill all those functions as well only do a better and more stable job of it.

CS
 
no thats exaclty what it does. Server lists are simply better.

And just to be accurate, p2p games don't have "dedicated servers" we just have hosted games, that are displayed in the games list.

CS
 
1) Matchmaking=/=Multiplayer; Matchmaking has more to do with game servers. Civ has never required dedicated servers to play an MP game, so they have no need for matchmaking. This is a non-issue.

2) They have already announced that you will be able to access fan sites from within the game as well. This should gain the fan sites more exposure, not less.

3) The fan sites represent a (small) fraction of civ players. It follows then, that most civvers have less access to mods and the modding community at large. Since mods will be able to be hosted by Steam (but, as they have also said, are not required to be), more civvers will learn about and have access to them. For modders, that should be fantastic news, as they will be able to reach a broader audience and gain more exposure. But, maybe I'm missing something :)
 
1) Matchmaking=/=Multiplayer; Matchmaking has more to do with game servers. Civ has never required dedicated servers to play an MP game, so they have no need for matchmaking. This is a non-issue.

2) They have already announced that you will be able to access fan sites from within the game as well. This should gain the fan sites more exposure, not less.

3) The fan sites represent a (small) fraction of civ players. It follows then, that most civvers have less access to mods and the modding community at large. Since mods will be able to be hosted by Steam (but, as they have also said, are not required to be), more civvers will learn about and have access to them. For modders, that should be fantastic news, as they will be able to reach a broader audience and gain more exposure. But, maybe I'm missing something :)

Your definition of matchmaking is a little narrow, even that page you linked to has a link to "p2p matchmaking" in Steam, confirming that matchmaking is not something limited to server based games but applies to p2p games as well.

CS
 
Do note that I did say "...more to do with servers...".

Multi-player does not require matchmaking, nor does not having match-making make multi-player more difficult. The only benefit matchmaking would offer (my understanding, anyway) for p2p multi-player, would be:

"Player A" could start a game without having arranged any other players; that game would then show up in a list of open, running games. I do not know if the "host" can refuse players or not. Note that matchmaking requires the game to be already started before it will show up on the list.

I fail to see how this benefits Civ style multi-player, since there are so many potential variations in settings, type of game, and style of play
 
So wait... I'll download mods from Steam now?

Would this mean that Firaxis/2kgames/Steam would have to approve the mods somehow before they could be downloaded? Would you only be able to download mods from Steam? This sounds like a step in a very bad direction.. :sad:
 
So wait... I'll download mods from Steam now?

Would this mean that Firaxis/2kgames/Steam would have to approve the mods somehow before they could be downloaded? Would you only be able to download mods from Steam?
You CAN download mods from Steam, but CFC and other fan sites will still be able to ALSO host mods.
 
Do note that I did say "...more to do with servers...".

Multi-player does not require matchmaking, nor does not having match-making make multi-player more difficult. The only benefit matchmaking would offer (my understanding, anyway) for p2p multi-player, would be:

"Player A" could start a game without having arranged any other players; that game would then show up in a list of open, running games. I do not know if the "host" can refuse players or not. Note that matchmaking requires the game to be already started before it will show up on the list.

I fail to see how this benefits Civ style multi-player, since there are so many potential variations in settings, type of game, and style of play

Well I think we are arguing over concepts here. Matchmaking to me is the engine that powers( the Steamworks backend servers in this case) MP. So unless we are going to go back to the Civ2MGE days of only DirectIP then there is matchmaking going on. Matchmaking IMHO is not what you see in the User interface, that is just options(like auto-matchmaking, games lists etc) that the developers chose or not to use. So Server-client or P2P, matchmaking code is still a required part of the game.

And yes Mods are available via the Community Hub, they are not locked into using just that. The game will no doubt allow players to install mods from any source. But as far as the hub goes I do think we will see 2K excerise some control over what gets approved or not on that hub. They are leagally responsible for any and all content they allow to use it, so it is not unreasonable to expect them to have some standards. So that the hub doesn't violate the games ESRB rating.

And just to be accurate they have not actually stated that Steam will host the hub, though I'm sure Steam would be capable of it.

CS
 
I am using the Steamworks definition of Matchmaking, based on the API. It is the process/ability to show clients that are open and running. It does not show a list of other players that are looking for a game - only servers/peers that have an open, active game.

The fact that that specific part of the Steamworks API is not included in CIv V at release says nothing about about multi-player. There is a separate part of the API for p2p:

Peer-to-peer networking
header: ISteamNetworking.h

The Steam networking API is a simple set of functions to let the game send data directly between two Steam users. To make connections from behind home NAT's, it uses the libjingle NAT-punching library or, if no direct connection can be made, through the Steam relay servers.
Even so - Firaxis could have used there ownp2p protocols.

What we know:
1) they have said that CIv V will have "excellent MPsupport".
2) Steamworks' Matchmaking will not be included at release.

The 2nd statement in no way invalidates the 1st.
 
You CAN download mods from Steam, but CFC and other fan sites will still be able to ALSO host mods.

To the best of my knowledge, we do not have tangible information about the way in which the advertised functionality of "adding mods to your game by one mouse click" will work.
Therefore, it seems to be a viable assumption that certain patterns have to be followed for modders to make their mods compliant with Steam servers (under the assumption that it will be Steam servers which are holding the mods).

Whether such assumedly needed patterns will conflict with downloading a mod from other than Steam sources, at the moment seems to be unknown.

Therefore, yes, other sites may hold mods, too. If you will be able to make use of such mods then, is not yet clear. Neither it is clear, whether they may easily fit into the "mod repository" and whether there are any checks about the structure and the sources, from which such a modification originates.
 
I would be disappointed if "freedom" and "autocracy" would be mutually exclusive, since that is utter non-sense (and smells like American propaganda from the cold war equating democracy with freedom). There should be some room for Enlightened Despotism or constitutional monarchy.

The odd thing is that there's a freedom tree and a liberty tree, so we don't know yet just how they'll be semantically differentiated. Maybe the fact the liberty and autocracy aren't mutually exclusive will end up making you happy.

Now I'd like to know what the heck they mean by "8 subgroups."

As for matchmaking, I'm hoping that means they'll set me up on dates with women who enjoy the civ series.
 
Whether such assumedly needed patterns will conflict with downloading a mod from other than Steam sources, at the moment seems to be unknown.

They've said it here that you will be able to download mods from other sources.
At this point, i believe them.
 
They've said it here that you will be able to download mods from other sources.
At this point, i believe them.

Thanks for pointing me to that source.
I read things like:
Jon Shafer: We're going to have a utility that packages up the mods you make, too. In Civ IV, there were hundreds of files, tons of directories, and you toss in a readme, and hope people read it, and don't install the mod into their system directory. This utility puts it all into one file that you can distrubute, and unbundle with Civ at the other end.
This sounds like nice and easy doing, no doubt.

And the very next sentence then reads:
Eurogamer: Is the submission to Firaxis for distribution a moderated process?

Dennis Shirk
: We're still working through the system that'll be used for moderation. For the user, it'll be invisible - they'll submit, and it'll show up in the directory.

To me, this seems very much like the Steam-hosted mods will be checked and "moderated".

And this very much reminds me - maybe less in technical terms, but in general - of my statement:
Originally Posted by Commander Bello
Whether such assumedly needed patterns will conflict with downloading a mod from other than Steam sources, at the moment seems to be unknown.

Still, the criteria which differentiate Firaxis-accepted and Steam-based mods from those available at locations as CivFanatics are unclear to me.

And let's be honest: a mod being available at Steam will have some kind of "official" acknowledgement. On which this acknowledgement will be based, is unknown yet.
Will it be the "famous name" of a well-known modder?
Will it be the way in which he has dealt with Firaxis' ideas in the past?
Will it be any willingness to have Firaxis subtly change the modification?

All unknown.

All I can say is "wait and see".
We have had so many statements of developers in the past, which later on have not become true, that I for my person prefer to stay sceptical until proven wrong.
 
Two important sentences.

First, fanmade sites like CivFanatics shall be of less importance. :rolleyes:
In other words: Independantly run sites, where people are more likely to articulate criticism, where independant communities have grown in the past, shall suffer.
Great idea...

In general, websites like CivFanatics rarely account for more than a small minority of players. (At least, that is my impression.)
 
In general, websites like CivFanatics rarely account for more than a small minority of players. (At least, that is my impression.)

Well I'm pretty sure that collectively that CFC, Apolyton, CivPlayers, WePlayCiv, Realms Beyond, CGN etc, account for the vast majority of players that visit the internet looking for info on their favourite game.....

Neither one of us can provide statistics, but Civers, as strategy game players are generally more intellectual than other genres of gamers and I'm sure as such that most have a regular internet connection. If not to play MP, they definitely want to share their addiction experinces with other players.

CS
 
Sorry to get off topic, but since moddingh is being discussed I will ask this here, as I've asked in the Steam Faq thread, but I don't see it getting answered anytime soon. I'm asking for anyone best guess also.

Do we know if mods will be able to be played in offline mode? Or will we be able to switch between mods at will in offline mode. Will we be able to download a mod from CFC then later install and play it, while in offline mode? Do mods interacted or change the game in a way steam may think you've changed the game files, therefore kicking you out of offline mode?

My last question I assume that the way mods are done is that steam doesn't verify the files where mods are stored, am I correct? It would seem if steam did, then it would think you've tampered with the game and wouldn't let you play. I know nothing about mods so correct me if Im wrong.
 
Once you've downloaded a mod, you've downloaded a mod. Of course you'll still be able to play it offline.

And Steam isn't going to stop you from playing or installing a mod.
 
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