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[BTS] Shadow Game #3 for @guyyee - MONARCH

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by guyyee, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. guyyee

    guyyee Warlord

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    Background

    I just got into CIV4 (since July 2020) and has been playing regularly, learning the intricacies that underlie this deeply absorbing game. As alluded to in the title, this will be my third guided game. Following the first two guided games played on Noble, I learnt a great deal and was able to apply the knowledge to win convincingly on Prince (tbh, it was easier than I thought). Special thanks to CIV4 maestro @lymond.

    There is a certain glowing satisfaction in seeing that victory message popping up, affirming my "still functioning well" intellectual faculty.

    I know that there are still major gaps in my gameplay. I'm striving for progression, not perfection although I'm mindful that as I climb up the difficulty ladder the room for mistakes gets smaller.

    Settings

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    Start

    Spoiler Starting position :
     

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    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  2. guyyee

    guyyee Warlord

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    Thoughts
    1. Lots of green river tiles - great potential for cottages dominant city - also will be a + boost for a FIN leader
    2. I also note that Elizabeth has PHI trait - so I'd hope to make good use of the GP
    3. One special food tile (pig) northwest of settler.
    4. I plan to settle 1E of pig tile.
    5. The two wine tiles will be within the BFC - good for growing happiness cap later
    6. Warrior move 1NW to explore
    7. Not many forests to chop
    8. Research Agri > AH
    Meanwhile, I'm reading this strategy article: https://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/misc/monarch-strategy-condensed/ - still relevant?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  3. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Move the warrior 1NW onto the hill as you suggest but do that before deciding where to settle - there's not a lot of hammers about so ideally you wouldn't kill that plains forest but chop it into something.
     
  4. Zavior

    Zavior Trying to (b)eat deity

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  5. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Just had a quick look, definitely out of date with latest thinking!
     
  6. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    If you want to read a good and recent beginner guide - that'll help with any level - read the first post at the very top of this forum - created by a fine lady.

    Warrior move first..yep. I think maybe an FP 1NE of pigs but not certain.

    Before a settler move - and really the warrior/scout move, analyze your start position in the fog. I can even tell from the screenie that you have forest tiles 2S and 2S1W and 1S2E. We no from that that a food resource is very unlikely.

    2S1E appears to be an unforested river plains tile - possible food.

    2W and 2W1S appear to be flat unforested grass tiles.

    Plains tile does not overly concern although if it is wheat that'd be sad. The 2 tiles in the W could be pigs or corn.

    1E of Pigs does not lose those tiles and I think that tile is plains, but barring the warrior find something special when he stands on the hill, I'm not sure losing a turn moving the settler - and killing a forest - is worth it here.
     
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  7. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    If you find nothing new with the warrior i'd likely gamble on 1w, loses no turn but gives a whole lot of mystery tiles ;)
     
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  8. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    As others have said, first climb the wooded hill. That will reveal a whole bunch of tiles, probably including at least one floodplains (hard to tell from just a picture). What he finds can impact the settling decision. But if nothing of particular note, think I'd settle 1N here. And certainly not 1E of the pig and kill the forest while also wasting a turn.

    Possible that 1N moves away from a resource, as it's possible there is a resource 2S1E of the current settler position (the plains in the fog). But I like the green river tiles, so would still gamble I think (depending on what the warrior finds).

    Fishing + Mining start for Elizabeth isn't exactly ideal for a Pigs start, so it would be great if you find a farming resource near that river, so you can pick up for example corn + the pig.
     
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  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Yeah, I'd further clarify on the 1E of pigs move. Don't lose a turn or 2 moving your settler without a "known" benefit of some kind...like moving onto a PH for the bonus. Based on the initial view here, there is absolutely no reason to make that move. Again, always analyze the fog..even before you move the warrior or scout.

    As My said above, a blind 1W move you can't go wrong with in the hopes of grabbing more stuff, as you don't really lose anything with that move...well, except for something 2S1E ..but that is a plains tile. Personally though I'd probably just SIP unless the warrior spies something juicy.

    Yep, AH starts are not ideal for the English. If you only show Pigs, you can go AG>AH>BW and farm a green tile at least while waiting for AH for a little extra food. Plains wine not great but farming one of them since riverside provides a decent commerce tile early.

    which tropical isle you hail from?
     
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  10. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    Settling 1N catches an extra floodplains for the capital (the one 3N1W peeking out of the fog).

    Settling 1W gets you five unexplored tiles which might have something good and gives up mostly mediocre stuff; I'd be a touch nervous about giving up 2S1E of the settler just because of how the forest parts around it, that might be a resource tile, but it's far from certain. Just maybe a little tiny bit more likely than your average tile, and otherwise it's a junky plains tile.

    Settling in place is also fine here.

    Nothing I see justifies delaying a turn-0 settle, unless the warrior finds something really good with his scout - which should presumably be onto the northern hill.
     
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  11. odin1981

    odin1981 Chieftain

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    Been awhile since I've played but if I remember types of trees correctly your in the south portion of your continent and unfortunately 8-12 moves N of jungle. You play on standard size correct?
     
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  12. guyyee

    guyyee Warlord

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    Thank you all! It's illuminating reading through each of your careful thought process, showed I'm still ways to go before I reach your levels.

    I just realized Monarch is more than halfway up the difficulty ladder (wow). This gives me a sobering pause as I predict things are about to get more challenging. Any general advice as we kickstart the game?

    Turn 0 | 4000BC
    1. Nothing of note on the north
    2. Aside from a gold tile southwest, nothing of note too in south
    3. Settled 1W of starting position
    4. Agri > AH
    5. Building worker
    Spoiler Settling first city :


    Penang, ironically a former colonial outpost of the British empire which is the civ I'm playing now. You've probably never heard of this place but it's one of those places consistently ranked inside top-10 retirement spots. https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nat...st-destinations-for-ultimate-asia-experience/

    let me know if you wanna visit when this covid nonsense blows over. happy to play host :)

    Standard. how can you tell from the trees?
     

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    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  13. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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  14. Zavior

    Zavior Trying to (b)eat deity

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    The trees change from leafy trees to coniferous trees the closer you are to poles(ie. colder climate).
     
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  15. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Lucky gold strike :banana:
    An extra resource will be found in ~33% of cases imo, when pulling in 4 fogged tiles.

    I think we should see AH timing after your worker finished, for the best improvable tile before Pigs.
    Most likely gold mine - pigs - floodplains farm.
    (gold can always be worked while building settlers & workers + having it done early does free up time for chopping sooner)
     
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  16. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Gold in the fog. Awesome! That makes for a very strong start, and a great Buro spot. With Elizabeth being Financial, those cottages are 3:commerce: right off the bat. That's a little down the line, tho.

    Nice with Elephants easily accessible too. That's 3 :) resources very early.
     
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  17. odin1981

    odin1981 Chieftain

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    Also from what it looks like if you scout two N from initial scout position you might start to see them. With the scout, I would then start going southwest to see what's around by the elephants to see if you should settle on them or not for second city.

    The pine trees are also important to note as well if they are snowy or not. At higher levels the barb's can be problematic if you are near a pole if you see snowy pine trees. But I wouldn't worry much about that until you are immortal or higher.
     
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  18. civac

    civac Warlord

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    With that land and leader this is at least one difficulty level lower. Not trying to take anything away from you but keep in mind that an average Monarch game will be much harder than this.
     
  19. guyyee

    guyyee Warlord

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    Turn 10/500 | 3600BC

    Spoiler Turn 10/500 Map :
     

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  20. guyyee

    guyyee Warlord

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    Turn 17/500 | 3320BC
    1. Lost my first warrior exploring the southern end of map, getting mauled by bears and wolf. Are wild animals more potent in their attacks in Monarch?
    2. First worker out, improving gold tile.
    3. Building second warrior.
    4. Researching BW after AH
    5. Looks like I'll have to expand westward, eastward and northward. Identified potential city spots (marked on map) - what do you think? Problem with tile 1SE of banana is that i can't improve that resource till iron working because it's on a jungle, which is bummer. If I do settle here, I can probably share the pig tile to grow this city. The tile above elephant seems ok, to secure both resources there and potentially grab that oasis tile 2W. Problem is there is not much food to grow on.

    Spoiler Warrior mauled down by wild animals! :
     

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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020

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