Shadow Game: Immortal w/ Sitting Bull

[Mr_Trotsky]

Too late for new cottages now. Current cottages, gems and bulbing will be enough to get you where you need to go techwise. In terms of irrigation, I would generally prioritise irrigating in the direction of dry grains that need irrigating. I would farm a direct route to the grain but farming workable green rather than brown wherever possible.

Hard to be more specific without opening the save and it’s day 36 of 61 of the summer holidays so that’s not happening!

 

[MrBungler]

Too late for new cottages now

Agreed - my question was ambiguous, was more wondering when if ever I would replace cottages with irrigated farms.

day 36 of 61 of the summer holidays

stay strong brother! Kindergarten started this week over here, and my oldest started school

 

[MrBungler]

ok, so not seeing a lot of possible irrigation on my map currently. I have 4 dry grains: 1 wheat, 2 corn, 1 rice. Of these, I only see that the wheat can be irrigated.

Am I missing something?

Spoiler pics :

 

[Nick723]

ok, so not seeing a lot of possible irrigation on my map currently. I have 4 dry grains: 1 wheat, 2 corn, 1 rice. Of these, I only see that the wheat can be irrigated.

Am I missing something?

Spoiler pics :

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1. The wheat is already irrigated, it’s next to the river.

2. The corn absolutely can be, one good route to me looks to be: farm SE of wheat and then NE (over undeveloped grassland cottage), NE (unimproved grassland), NE (unimproved plains)

3. Second corn you just need to farm the tile south west of Djenne. Is cities are on flatland, they pass irrigation.

4. This rice is a longer route but still possible, best route seems to me to be (from the rice) -> north west of the city above, then north west, west, west to the corn. Note when doing this route you have to start at the other end, ie start at the corn once it’s irrigated and move to the rice that way.

 

[MrBungler]

@Nick723 cheers mate, I was missing that irrigation spreads on the diagonal, thanks for clearing that up

 

[Fippy]

I would farm over the cottage (where Izzy's scout stands) at Djenne.
Good plan by Nick723 at Poverty Point, 3 tiles needed and 2 of them will be green farms.
Undeveloped cottages on grass should prolly all become farms anyways..with Cahokia as exception cos Bur capitals should be full of cottages

 

[MrBungler]

Thanks @Fippy - when I get MC from Mansa, would you already start building forges in some cities?

And, what are tech priorities after CS? I'm nervous about Spain, thinking of Feudalism for longbows?

 

[Fippy]

Paper (Philo must be bulbed before Edu becomes available), then Nationalism and Compass (needed to unlock Lib bulb later) if it's not coming up for trade.
Feuda you can almost certainly trade for. Please remember no machinery until the Lib bulb completed.

Forges are a hot topic
They are not crucial like granaries..our main plan is upgrading HAs (or better elephants) with great merchant gold.
So your best build would be those mounted units, or barracks where needed.

HBR wasn't for trade i think?
Forges are usually good in capitals..trading for MC & starting one in Cahokia makes sense.
But other cities i dunno..maybe those with some base hammers (like copper or horse tiles).
Better than building wealth, worse than building HAs i guess.

 

[MrBungler]

Please remember no machinery

Got it

HBR wasn't for trade i think?

I don't think so but I'll check. Sounds like it's also a priority - higher than paper? If I remember correctly, hbr needs only a few turns

 

[Fippy]

I don't think starting on HAs is urgent enuf to self-tech HBR.

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T124 - golden age :

T121 cont - working plains cottage in MC, traded Music for Metal Casting and 70g w/ Mansa, Poly for 50g w/ Toku, Djenne now working corn (@Fippy no, didn’t see, huge blind spot)

T122 - CS teched, now researching Paper, irrigating, building Forges in capital, Timbuktu, and Kumbi

T124 - GS finished, Philo bulbed

Ready to GA? Anything else to do before?

Mansa will trade HBR for 385g - that wouldn’t leave me much reserve tho.

 

[Fippy]

Back..let's see, theology is good actually (speeds up paper and later we want theocracy).

I'd suggest CS + Aest for Feuda + 40g with Sal - CS for Theo + 140g (nice) with Willy - CS for HBR with Mansa.
We don't really care about what Mansa has if other AIs already got that tech as well (and now they do)
Sometimes we should just take what's needed.

Make trades in that order cos i'm not sure about Sals wfyabta threshold (Willy and Mansa's are high).
50g from Qin for literature? Also good.
Looking at other stuff soon.

 

[Fippy]

Moving a chariot into Timbuktu looks reasonable (more happy with HR now).

I started your golden age & switched Civics so i can see points.
Cahokia could run 5 scientists for a GS in 5t (Chaco can take all shared cottages).
PP 6 scientists (only works wheat). Cahokia still gets the GS first.
Mound City 5 merchants (fish + deer kept).
Kumbi also 5 merchants (keeping copper should be fine..we can check later when shrinking lurks).
Djenne 5 scientists (i would keep the farm even if losing tiles like dye hurts a bit).

We will need Caste & Paci for longer than 7 turns for sure.
No biggie cos slavery & theo switch costs only 1 anarchy round later.
After 4 turns we could check about shrinking cities (or adding farms).

 

[MrBungler]

@Fippy you're a champion thanks for all the help

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T126 - of rice and men :

T124 cont - Made trades ala Fippy, started GA, switched civics, assigned scientists and merchants in suggested cities

T125 - continuing irrigation east

T126 - finished teching paper, starting nationalism. Izzy demanded Feudalism and I refused - was that wrong?

and... think I missed something obvious - the irrigation route towards Parthian rice goes out of my borders, so I can't build farms :/

pausing here to re-assess the worker plans and the shrinking cities

 

[elmurcis]

From screenshots - that refusal made Red Fist to appear (she went into "war mode") - Issy will attack you at some point. Giving Feud might be better choice in this case (as it is tech that AI gets early anyways and isn't cruicial monopoly tech).

 

[Fippy]

When they ask threatening (some lines are quiet funny to read) refusal means plotting, yup.
Unnecessary after putting so much work into diplo with her
Giving away Feuda would have been pleased now. And all but Toku have it..she might have traded it from Sal anyways.

GP farms look okay for another 2 turns.
There are a couple micro mistakes (Cahokia can work cottages from other cities instead of coast, Timbuktu similar with a farm from Kumbi etc).
Don't build wealth anymore at this point - start on barracks or HAs.

Izzy was on +2 from "we appreciate your resource supply" now, maximum and the big deal can be cancelled with giving her just 1 for gpt.
Keep looking at Toku's gold 50 available for Mono, those are "dream deals" while he still lacks such small techs.
Izzy has 100 (after i cancelled the resources?)..perfect for an Aest. sale.

But you should decide first if you reload & fix the demand mistake.
It's an important mechanic especially for deity games..never refuse threats unless you don't mind an AI plotting on you.
She would have more units later and annoying things like Sal being bribed on you as well can happen.

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

I’d reload. I think it risks somewhat ruining the other learning points if you have to deal with a potential DOW while you’re in a golden age and supposed to be learning how to maximise great people. And a reload will form part of the education which is learning to love being threatened and getting ten turns of peace plus the diplo modifier. Few things make me happier than Napoleon demanding my clam

 

[Fippy]

Few things make me happier than Napoleon demanding my clam

Totally
Think wisely Mr_Trotsky..

 

[Nick723]

One thing that took me ages to realise is that you can look at the advisor screens during a demand. Not sure if it’s the same for you, but for a while I was doing it all from memory which is tough!