Shadow Game: Immortal w/ Sitting Bull

I'd say Cahokia can go down to 2 turns, and you can keep working some good tiles :)
If you use 6 this and i think 5 next turn it's fine. I added cows & 3 green cottages.

Get Toku's 70g for Mono ;)
And some small amounts (but adds up) from others for your world map.
Everything else seems okay.
Spoiler T133 - the gold rolls in :

T131 cont - made trades and adjusted Cahokia ala Fippy
T132 - GM found Beijing and the Temple of Artemis, 1300g for trade route. Also, wars: Izzy on Toku, and Toku on Saladin
T133 - Mansa begged for Paper, I declined. Sal tried to trade me Machinery for Music and gold, but no machinery til after Lib bulb. Sir Isaac Newton emerges in Cahokia

GM in Mound in 3 turns without shrinking, PP will shrink in 3 turns at current investment, but could run instead 3 scientists to not shrink



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You want GS for lib before next GM. 5 turns for GS is fine because you'll need a few turns of research into liberalism anyway. GM can wait a bit longer, you still need gunpowder after lib>miltrad and you'll be building/whipping cuirs for a few turns before you're ready to invade which gives time for TM to upgrade HAs.
PP could go down to 4t without shrinking cos you need just 2t of 1 more scientist.
Prolly better..then Mound City doesn't have to wait that long (and you can make civic switches sooner).

I keep repeating this and you are prolly bored of it by now..;)
There are always nice gold trades available when i open your saves.
Aest & Lit are "gone techs" by now and you can get 60g for each (Izzy and Toku).
I keep repeating this and you are prolly bored of it by now..;)
thanks Fippy, you're probs tired of repeating yourself :) diplomacy is a weakness in my game, lots of room for improvement.

Spoiler T134 - thief of words :

  • made the trades ala Fippy
  • ran one additional scientist in PP for T133, backed off Mound City
  • now in T134, PP set to pop GS in 4 turns, MC's GM afterwards - did I understand that timing correctly?
  • also, someone stole Literature from me :shifty:



  • MrBungler AD-0475_SB_immortal_T134.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Mound City can go down to 3t again, and PP will too next turn where you just remove one farm for 1t (you can check that by counting 3x27 and notice there are only 3gpp missing).

You are still running scientists in Cahokia, remove them all ;)
Edu can be double bulbed, Gunpowder after Natio (can still hope for a compass trade but it's getting unlikely).

Some improvements on resource deals for gpt are possible.
You should be able to tell who stole literature from you by opening the espionage screen and seeing who has just spent lots of points on you. It doesn’t change much beyond giving you a flimsy justification for ultimately killing them
Spoiler T136 - an education renaissance :

  • groaned at still running scientists in Cahokia
  • accepted my shortcomings, and put those eggheads back to work
  • adjusted Mound City to 3t
  • improved trade deals: William 5gpt for cow, Saladin 6gpt for copper, Toku 6gpt for deer
  • Izzy has a yellow -96 next to her name in the espionage screen, the culprit? I know I'd meant to trade Lit with her, now can't remember.
  • Education double-bulbed, the reverberations of Miserere become the arpeggios of a Bach cello suite
  • PP 1t from GS and will pop next
  • checked resource and tech trades, don't see anything currently desirable
Feeling uncertain about what to do next with my workers? What should they focus on? Not sure I should chop the forest next to Parthian, as it's a sole source of hammers.



  • MrBungler AD-0520_SB_immortal_T136.CivBeyondSwordSave
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With more merchants in Mound City there will be only 3 turns left in Caste & Paci.
I wouldn't finish HAs before that now..wait for +2xp from theocracy :)
Cahokia i.e. could build a budd. monastery meanwhile.

Workers..mines at Cahokia make sense, with +75% :hammers: they are useful.
Timbuktu works an empty tile that could be a green mine too.
Forest pre-chops, road network (already thinking about cuirs movement)..nothing big but always something to do.

90g from Toku for CoL i'd certainly take.
Spoiler war... what is it good for? :

T136 cont: 90g from Toku, more merchants in MC, monastery in Caho

T137: Izzy, who is currently pleased with me, canceled our peace treaty, then demanded I declare against Toku - leaving the game open here, not sure how best to respond. What do the pros suggest?


Refuse..Toku can still be useful (we regularly sell him techs for valuable gold :)).
We don't really care about relations with Izzy at this point cos she's no danger with Cuirs coming soon.
You get -1 but those requests can never result in plotting.
Spoiler almost done with GP era :

T137: refused Izzy's war on Toku, then refused Toku's war on Saladin. GS pops in PP and scientists repurposed

  • GM in 2 turns in MC
  • Izzy and Saladin both have 90g free, but i don't think i should trade any of the techs they want
  • HA will finish in 2 turns in Timbuktu; anything else worth building there to delay HA til after Theology?



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Do you know where Toku is? Might be worth using a horse archer to watch the war and also check out Izzy’s and Sal’s armies. Back stabbing them looks appealing
World map from Willy for HBR reveals almost everything.
Then you can re-sell to others if they miss some parts :)

We have a visi-chariot sitting in Timbuktu, could go look around in Izzy's land.
(the city can actually use some old units (dogs, spears etc) as happy guards..maybe send 2-3 down)

Bizarre how nobody teched compass by now.

Chaco should switch to barracks so they can be whipped when slavery comes back.
Wealth for 1t isn't wrong in Timbuktu. Djenne has good :food: and i would whip a forge there (switching now).
Kumbi switch to HA so barracks can still be whipped.

Those Engi specialists are pointless without Rep..even 1:food: coast is better.
Watch out for questionable city governor picks, we want only improved tiles or something with food or beakers.
Spoiler T139 - top of the world, ma :

T137 cont - World map from Willy, re-sold to Izzy, Mansa, Saladin, & Toku; chariot towards Izzy, happy guards towards Timbuktu; did everything else Fippy suggests :)
T138 - moved units, ordered workers
T139 - GM in Mound then merchants repurposed, improved crabs deal with Izzy from 8 to 9 gpt

So please check my understanding: new GM should head to Beijing to make a trade route? And it's time to change civics to Slavery and Theocracy? After anarchy, I should whip in Chaco, Djenne, and Kumbi at least, and whip HAs in other cities when efficient?





  • MrBungler AD-0580_SB_immortal_T139.CivBeyondSwordSave
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GM can sit in Bejing until you need gold, yup.
Sometimes you can get 200g more when the capital grows.
If you want check traderoutes in Cahokia, +10% for population currently. I think it's 5% more for each pop now.

Take special care of bureau capitals :)
Chako has a village that can be switched over.
After anarchy (yep theo & slavery switch now) take back crabs from Qin so it's not unhealthy.

I think Kumbi chopped too early, if you whip barracks there will be so many overflow:hammers: that some are lost.
Are you playing with "workers stop chopping 1t before completion"?
All good mods like Buffy or BAT have that feature..not sure if BUG alone does.

In Parthian we missed planning ahead as well :) at 27/50 HAs cannot be 2 pop whipped anymore.
Maybe switch to forge & whip when possible, there are not enuf workable tiles so 4 pop are no loss.
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