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[BTS] Shadow Game - Immortal

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Nick723, Mar 13, 2020.

  1. Nick723

    Nick723 Chieftain

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    Hi All,

    New to the forums, have re-taken up Civ IV having played it back when it first came out...

    Was never any good, but self-isolation seems like a good time to start a shadow game! I've won a few times on Emperor, so seeing as you guys will be helping on this one, I will try for immortal.

    Settings I think are fairly standard, random leader on a fractal map, no huts/events, normal speed, standard size, etc.

    I've ended up with Genghis Khan and a nice looking start, at least to my eyes.

    My instinct with the scout would be to move NW then probably NE, to see if going towards the pigs would be beneficial. Thoughts?

    Ps. I haven't worked out how to upload screenshots to the forum properly, if anyone can point me in the direction of a post that explains how, would be much appreciated!

    Nick
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    It's absolutely good times for civ4 now. ;)
    Uploading screenshots...? You have managed to attach one, and making it appear in the text is as easy as pushing a button.

    attachpic.JPG
     
  3. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    If you want to be kind, it's usually nice to put the images inside spoilers, so that they don't take up so much space for others scrolling the pages.

    Spoiler :

    attachpic.JPG

     
  4. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Regarding the starting position:
    Spoiler :

    It's a start that makes one cringe abit, because we both want to settle on that plains-ivory to gain a extra hammer in the city tile. And we want those piggies inside the capitals BFC. (And the riverside corn, ofcourse!)

    I think I would move the scout simply NE, as that reveals most of the tiles that would help me decide which capital location is the better one of SiP, NE, N or E (On the ivory).

    Tile yields and resource bubbles should be on in screenshots for these purposes I think. Makes it easer to see as much relevant information as possible.
     
  5. Nick723

    Nick723 Chieftain

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    Thanks!

    Moving the scout NE reveals nothing of particular interest (at least to my eyes)

    Spoiler :


    Screen Shot 2020-03-13 at 21.36.37.png



    I feel here as nice as getting the extra hammer by settling on the ivory would be, it's more important to have both corn and pigs, so would SIP? I guess the ivory is an ok tile for later on too.

    Would you recommend the same?
     
  6. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I think on the ivory or SIP is both fine. Looks like a wash on net grass river tiles if my math is right, so SIP should be good (honestly I might be inclined to settle on ivory anyway and go straight to BW first)
     
  7. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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  8. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    It has kind of a big effect really... The first 15 turns (during the turns you build a worker) you will have gotten 60H if SiP, and then you start improving the corn.
    If you go on the ivory, you will have that worker done T12, and at T15 you will have gained two turns of improvement on the corn, (Perhaps can be quantified as 6H?)
    And you will have gotten yields T12, T13, T14, say you worked the unimproved corn it would ammount to 3F2H per turn, in total 9F6H.
    So gain at T15 from settling on ivory would be about 21 hammer-food.

    Quite substantial.
    And the yield doesn't dissapear after T15 either.
     
  9. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Yeah, BUG is a must. Buffy is nice too but bug is a must. :)
    And blue marble, what candy for the eyes! Can't belive I played without it so many years.
     
  10. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Hmmm.. yes I think settle on ivory is likely best. And likely mining first (riverside grassland hills are nice!).
    But hold research to T5 before commiting.
    Just unselect whatever tech you select when queried at the start of the turn and press end turn w/o having a tech selected.
     
  11. Nick723

    Nick723 Chieftain

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    Interesting - I hadn't thought the benefits were so substantial. Inclined to go that way then (settling on ivory).

    Lymond - not sure I follow the straight for BW piece? If I go mining -> BW, what would the worker do first? Build a mine? I thought priority was normally to improve food.

    Helpful though if I'm learning things, is the purpose of doing this!
     
  12. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Thingy about Pigs is, SIP only makes sense with AH.
    So with Agri - AH that delays BW quiet a bit.

    Jumbos are an unimportant tile with green river hills around, only 1:commerce: more.
    But an extra :hammers: has a rather big effect early, as Krikav wrote.

    So you should base your decision on the early tech path, if you want BW (whip, chop) more settle on Jumbos, and tech mining after Agri for some okay hills as 2&3 tile.
     
  13. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    I would settle in place. Nothing wrong with having the extra food source.
    Settle on the ivory, you have a faster worker but then you lack the pig, when it comes to producing other settlers/workers.

    SIP is a very nice place for a capitol.
     
  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Sorry...assumption was Ag was a given first. I meant ignore AH and going straight to BW.

    On ivory, you can farm corn and put down a river grass mine and build a pretty fast settler at size 2. Then settle W on the river for pigs. (note: cap 2nd border pop will nab pigs for that city so you don't need to be adjacent, especially if you don't plan to go AH for a wihile)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  15. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I don't totally agree here BiC as GK is IMP. The mines will help just as well in producing settlers. The cities I think are almost equal in terms of cottages, plus you could cottage the river hill you don't settle on.

    SiP is certainly fine though..mind you. I think on ivory has a bit of an edge in terms of early worker and earlier settler. And ignoring Ah for BW will mean no idle worker turns (other than roading everything in sight) and early chops

    edit: If my math is right here, on Ivory has 11 grass river tiles to SIP's 9. Plus 2 river grass hills to cottage later, if desired.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  16. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    ^ Yes, but if you plan on settling for the pigs on t0, what if exploration reveals other food sources ? Those would then be used by city 3 instead of 2.

    edit : X-post. Sorry. True enough, mines are good with an IMP leader :)
     
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  17. Nick723

    Nick723 Chieftain

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    Thanks all - makes sense!

    With that in mind, I have settled on the ivory, and scouted around for 5 turns.

    Spoiler :


    Screen Shot 2020-03-13 at 22.10.53.png



    No other AIs yet, but one obvious city site it seems up to the north east.

    In terms of tech path, my normal instinct would be to go Agriculture->Mining->Bronze Working. I also don't know if this start calls for earlier pottery instead?

    But anyway, it seems first tech should be agriculture? Or am I off the mark?
     

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  18. Nick723

    Nick723 Chieftain

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    Sorry didn't see all the posts!

    Anyway you can see how I went, hopefully not too disastrous yet!

    Lymond - thanks for mods piece, will see if I can sort that now. They don't affect gameplay I take?
     
  19. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    right

    I would ignore the jungle to the S for now as you will avoid it any way. Scout open spaces to E and W first...not too far.
     
  20. Nick723

    Nick723 Chieftain

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    Thanks - so I moved the scout 1 turn more to the east, before bringing him back towards the west. Scouting in general not something I'm very good at (my scouts tend to die a lot) so advice in this area appreciated!

    I played on to turn 11, teaching agriculture and starting mining. On turn 11 I met Boudica and Hammurabi, both to the West. Boudica has founded Hinduism. Worker will be done next turn.

    Spoiler :


    Screen Shot 2020-03-13 at 22.38.28.png


    Questions I have to mind:
    - where next with the scout? Head west?
    - who should I put my espionage points on? My initial feeling is Hammurabi as I think he is a bit of a better techer?
    - what to build next in city? (warrior?)

    And anything else I missed off I suppose!
     

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